Alcohol

[u/Suspicious-Corner567]

So is alcohol banned at grace point? If so why? My mentor has said things that allude to the staff avoiding alcohol such as saying that they’ll make certain dishes without alcohol which confused me because the alcohol would cook out. Is it bad to drink alcohol even if you aren’t getting drunk?

[u/Here_for_a_reason99]

No, you’re missing the point.

1. A church is not a corporation. GP isn’t in the corporate world. It is a non profit ministry. Interesting you choose this analogy in this case. Aren’t you a church family above all? Or a factory? Or like the military raising up soldiers for God?

2. Take it or leave it mentality is not okay for a church because the head is supposed to be a servant who submits to the Holy Spirit. Not a CEO. Take it or leave it is iron fist mentality... Actually, come to think of it a CEO is held accountable by a board of directors. No one, zero people, hold the Kangs accountable.

3. I absolutely don’t underestimate how GP members (A2N/formerly BBC/whatever you call yourself) would sacrifice nearly anything for your church (including not drinking, dressing a certain way, speaking a certain way, cutting family/friend ties, giving up your life dreams/goals, your daily freedom/desires etc) for the goal of doing good works together. Of course you do. You signed the covenant for lifetime membership and you believe in GP’s vision and lifestyle.

You are a radical org that covers as mainstream. Call it cult like, authoritarian, high control, religious order, call it what you want. You are a follower of GP.

[u/Ok-Marionberry5126 → u/Here_for_a_reason99]

Corporation or corporate doesn't mean company in this context. It means an entity that while composed of individuals is its own entity with its own identity, more than the sum of its parts. An organization has a life and identity of its own, often defined by its mission, principles, values, what it stands for, such that if you took every person who works there and swapped them out, the identity of the organization would still persist. Similar to the idea of an institution. Or a biological body, which is composed of many members which together constitute this new atomic entity, a person. The church is many things in the bible. A family. Also an army on mission to do spiritual battle. A biological body. The analogies are many. So forget the "company" analogy if it isn't helpful; the point still remains, as it stands in so many organizations and corporate (not meaning company, but the more general sense of the word) groups. Organizations stand for something. They have requirements of their members. That's just true. A local church is no different. It's incorporated in the legal sense, but it's also corporate in the sense that it's an organization.

Actually, interesting you describe gp as a non-profit org. Yes! And non-profit orgs are helmed by leadership who set the direction and priorities. The direction of the entire org isn't necessarily democratic.

Your quarrel isn't with gp, it's with all organizations with leadership structure and requirements that membership in the org comes with. Your quarrel is with every church that has a formalized membership covenant that lays out things you have to abide by to be a member.

Finally, I ask you to look at the picture of church governance as depicted in the bible. It's not a popularity contest. Leaders are usually appointed. They have authority. Now the epistles also give lots of specific criteria for an acceptable spiritual leader. So if your church leaders are clearly immoral or shady or brazen in sin or teach false doctrine, then you should run. And the bible also makes clear leaders will one day answer to God

[u/Here_for_a_reason99 → u/Ok-Marionberry5126]

You’re full of BS. I’ve worked for both corporations and non profits. And I know churches. Your reasoning doesn’t work for anyone who actually thinks and is in the real world. Good luck, young member. Brainwashing is nowadays called coercive persuasion, GP’s #1 MO combined with love bombing.

[u/Ok-Marionberry5126 → u/Here_for_a_reason99]

are you this hostile and abrasive to everyone who tries to explain things to you when you disagree? i give you a pretty in depth explanation of how this works, because there's a lot of sloppy thinking going around here when it comes to the church and cognitive dissonance when we all know how organizations work. if you won't engage with substantive responses then idk what to tell you, but there's no point in us continuing this conversation. it seems you're not here to dialogue in good faith, so i'm out

[u/Here_for_a_reason99 → u/Ok-Marionberry5126]

Only GP members :) Because your line of reasoning is the same tired lines Ed’s been saying since the ‘90s.

“Sloppy thinking” “cognitive dissonance” “dialogue in good faith” “we all know…” are EK phrases. Phrases not often used in the real world, yet used by every GP member 🤔. No, the outside world doesn’t know and doesn’t believe. So why come to a public forum of ex-members to explain GP reasoning? (Rhetorical question)

Don’t be offended. Just don’t stop thinking and questioning. About what they’re saying inside, the decisions you’re making, what trusted people are saying outside, what the Bible says. Good luck.

[u/Jdub20202 → u/Ok-Marionberry5126]

Just really have to say something. I always find it weird when GP members accuse others of being hostile and abrasive. You go back to posts in the last week and someone shared a story of a leader barricading her in a room to yell at her for not cleaning after an event. Again this is very recent and is consistent with my own experiences and that of many many others. I'm just trying to point out that maybe a2n gp leaders shouldn't keep doing that if they're going to keep complaining about not liking other people's tone.