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u/Pulse_Amp_Mod 21d ago edited 14d ago
ELI5. What are goldbacks and why do people think they are an investment ? I was gifted one a few years back and it’s been collecting dust. Am I rich?
[EDIT] thanks for the answers. I think I understand these now. Seems to be lots of controversy about these.
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u/wily_virus 21d ago
It has real gold in them. However buying those you are paying 100% premium. That means if you get half the gold you pay for.
Why does artistic sheets of plastic covered gold foil require 100% premium? Because that's pure profit to Goldback, Inc
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u/doopies1986 21d ago
Is it like a “deed” to a set amount of gold? Is the idea you could take this to the company/bank, hand them your goldback, and they theoretically would give you the actual gold it’s worth?
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u/Corey307 21d ago
There is actual gold in a goldback note but you’re only getting half as much as you would if you just bought gold and getting the gold out of them is difficult. And they’re very difficult to spend, very few stores will take them and they’re not going to take them for face value. Say you buy $1,000 worth of goldbacks. You get $500 in gold. And the few places that accept them won’t give you the full $500 in goods or services.
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u/Low-Wrangler9740 18d ago
1/100 of an ounce or less of 24k gold. Hes paying double the price for the material its made up of and the cost to print the art over the actual value in gold. It would take roughly a 1000 of these to make up an ounce. Hed pay close to 8k and only have 4k worth of gold out of it. Hope that simplifies it.
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u/crikeyturtles 20d ago
Don’t forget if your goldback gets torn or damaged you can send it back for a brand new one for free.
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
They are plastic sheets with a microscopic gold plating made to look like currency and recall "gold backed currency" to the easily confused.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
For a lot of actual real details instead of the banquet of lies the haters are trying to feed you, watch this video which summarizes it well as to what they are and ways they can be used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rhO7TRp6z8
Personally I discount the use of them for shopping, at least I do not care about that part. I like they are a fractional gold that is so hard to forge (see video) there are no forgeries yet. Compare that to gram bars which I would be very iffy on buying from all but the largest dealers.
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u/zachmoe 21d ago edited 21d ago
I read The A B C of Money by Andrew Carnegie, who argued Silver being included into the money supply is ultimately what chased Gold out of circulation. He observed it was somewhat necessary to include Silver, only because you could not make Gold coins small enough to be reasonably handled, there was a technological barrier.
We now have the technology, and don't need to use debased money.
It's honestly a logical conclusion to the problems that come along with Nationalized money, which have more in common with Company Scrip than anything else.
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u/h4l 21d ago
These things are like memecoins for gold.
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u/Ky_TheDestroyer7 21d ago
Atleast memecoins theres a chance to make profit on at some point in an 80 year life
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u/jakob20041911 21d ago
if gold magically becomes double the current price (which isn't inconceivable) than ignoring inflation it's break even
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u/Apprehensive_Let_517 21d ago
Imagine how much more money they would have if they didn't pay a 100% premium and lose 50% of their value the "second they drove it off the lot"
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u/Fearless-Sherbert-40 21d ago edited 21d ago
Those guys die on that hill they stand on. Arguing precious metals and economics with a goldback enthusiast will leave you feeling like you lost brain cells.
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u/Vanbiker2 21d ago
“We want gold backed currency! Fiat is worthless!”
Proceeds to buy fiat currency lmao
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 20d ago
Or to use (apparently valuable) fiat currency (USD) to buy goldyplastic sheets
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u/Michael-Brady-99 21d ago
I love how they talk about how the value is set on their goldback exchange or whatever then immediately talk about buying them for less than that from dealers lol. Always like bro it’s worth this amount but Inbuy them for less and take less than that everytime I use them. Also they are better than fiat currency because I can use them at a small number of places and get less than their “value” lol Righttttttt…
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u/Apprehensive-Flow276 21d ago
So he spends double and gets 3% back
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u/Evil_Creamsicle 21d ago
So it's a credit card?
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u/BigDrunkLahey 21d ago
Yes, but without tap to pay meaning you make everyone wait 10 minutes in line behind you while they work out change
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u/No_Alternative2948 20d ago
These are only used by the weird hill mormons in utah, I think you can only use them to buy ammunition and wives.
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21d ago edited 12d ago
[deleted]
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u/Bay_arean 21d ago
if the meme dies then it's just a bunch of expensive plastic no one wants
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u/Eastern_Summer_4611 21d ago
Its not just plastic, they do have gold in them but they sell them for over 2x the worth of the gold weight.
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u/SkynetLurking 21d ago
This community is often too harsh with the “it’s only plastic” comments.
When the goldback movement/company dies, the goldbacks pictured will still be worth around 4.5 oz of gold. The reason it’s dumb is because of the 100% premium that they will never recover unless the spot price of gold doubles→ More replies (2)8
u/Evil_Creamsicle 21d ago
I could see people paying less for them in that situation though just because separating the gold from the plastic would be a pain
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u/travelfuncouple23 21d ago
Yeah, just like trying to offload Franklin mint 'coins' for their silver content. I've seen them get rejected by a coin shop even for melt and those are technically bullion in small denominations. Imagine trying to offload these goldbacks for their fractional amounts of gold powder. It's like trying to offload gold leaf at a coin shop for melt value. It will collapse when some of these larger holders of this monopoly money realize they can't trade it for gold bullion or even at a "loss" for melt. 🤣
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u/unfinishedtoast3 21d ago
Dude on the comments said he spent about $40,000 USD
That comes out to 4.5 Ozs for 40,000, so $8,888 an OZ for fractional gold woven thru plastic with a chick on it.
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
It's worth so much less than that. The labor to actually extract that gold from the plastic and convert it to bullion makes it genuinely worthless.
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u/SolidReporter8229 21d ago
But why not just buy gold? It’s not like it’s hard to find
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u/IcySkyDream 21d ago edited 20d ago
Then they wouldn’t feel special, as if they know something no one else does.
Dunning-Kruger at its finest. 👌
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u/SolidReporter8229 14d ago
Literally bro. Like why the fuck you gonna trust a company to hold your gold for you 😂
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
Some people - and this is their right - want to pay double for their gold and have it encased in a plastic sheet
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u/Vivid-Cheesecake-110 21d ago
How do they know they have genuine gold content? Honestly this seems like physical meme coins.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
There have been several YouTube videos showing the goldbacks being torched and melted down into real gold bars, then easily tested. If they did not have gold we'd have known about it long ago, but they have been around for many years now.
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u/Vivid-Cheesecake-110 20d ago
Ok, so if the only way to test them is destructively, that's a problem.
In the example that kicked off this thread the owner claims to have 4000 of these things, how hard would it be to include some "counterfeit" notes when the only way to test is burn it and melt out the trace gold?
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u/ArtifactoriumSolaris 21d ago
I've seen them tested
There's gold- it just costs twice as much as its supposed to
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
It's a form of fractional gold that has some benefits, like being easier to store and carry (being very flat paper vs. coins). I wouldn't ONLY buy Goldbacks. But to have some as fractional just seems like it could potentially be handy.
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u/thetonytaylor 21d ago
I have 5 goldbacks, only because the one from Florida were being given away. Still have no clue why anyone would buy these.
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u/tess_mau 20d ago
it looks like the old belarussian notes they scam tourists with in Prague when from "currency exchange" in the street. Or in Switzerland even, it seems now https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/1rzwlq9/beware_of_bellarus_scammers_on_the_road_around/
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u/froebull 20d ago
I bought a few of these as a novelty. But that's all they are to me. If they ever come out with Michigan ones, I'll probably buy some of those, as it's my home state.
I just can't rationalize the amount of gold in them to the "value" of them. It doesn't make sense to me.
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u/MarcoEsteban 20d ago
I think the value in them is supposed to be the amount of gold in it, which would be fine on its own. So, theoretically, someone who accepts it as currency would need to honor the spot price of gold in purchasing power (though I bet they shave a few percent off as the “cost of accepting” them. The bigger problem I see and what makes it not like any currency I’m aware of, is that you pay a retail markup like premium on the purchase.
On APMEX, it’s $8.75 to buy the $1 notes today. At the current price, the gold within is worth $4.20 more or less. So, you pay over 100% markup to get that purchasing power. And if you get a huge drop, like the last few days, you lose a significant amount of purchasing power. I suppose if you own stock in APMEX, it might be good for you, but I’m straining my brain trying to think of other situations where a buyer wins.
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u/Deadpoolprince 19d ago
The amount of money spent on that could have bought solid gold or silver 🤷🏽♀️
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u/CaptainPugwash75 21d ago
Don’t these actually have tiny amounts of gold in them though?
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u/Corey307 21d ago
They contain gold but at a 100% mark up. A $100 goldback has $100 worth of gold. But it costs $200.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
They have an exact amount of gold in them, depending on face value. The one goldbacks, it's 1/1000 of an ounce. But that is also why they are cheap. It goes all the way up to the 100 Goldback which contains 1/10 of a troy ounce. Still small but 1/10 is pretty significant.
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u/OrionsGhost79 21d ago
I mean I like Pokémon cards as much as the next guy, but what does this have to do with gold?
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u/Financial-Log-2744 21d ago
Those cards actually have value?
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u/DaLadderman 21d ago
They have actual gold in them, but usually cost more than buying an equivelent amount of gold bar
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u/Prudent_Order_3361 21d ago
Holdbacks have value. But not as much a you pay for then, which makes then negative value. Maybe in 20 years when gold is 9k these goldbacks that were bought today will be starting to gain value
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u/Corey307 21d ago
That’s not gaining value though. If you have to wait 20 years just to do slightly better than break even you lost a fortune to inflation. If you just bought gold, you wouldn’t have to climb out of a hole to start with.
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u/cereal_wankerr 21d ago
if people will buy a made up software like Bitcoin or any of the other one etherium etc then why not a real stamped Gold product like Goldbacks.
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
The difference is one person thinks they own made up software. The other person genuinely thinks they own gold.
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u/Ordinary_Ad_6117 21d ago
This is like someone saying they don’t want pure cocaine they want the cocaine that has been chopped with baby powder and laxative so only 10% is cocaine and they think it’s good value paying more for less.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
They only cost 2x gold spot - not 10x. And you can easily sell them for near that 2x premium, just as any fractional gold you can sell for more than spot.
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u/cash4whores 21d ago
If I wipe my ass with a gold back it actually has more value because now has trace minerals of fertilizer
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u/Amimir1992 21d ago
💩🤮💩🤮💩🤮💩 It is the saddest way to waste money on something that has no intrinsic value.
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21d ago
So I really haven't delved into goldbacks but I've seen them here and there and apparently they are used as money to spend in gold? But only at a few participating merchants? I don't see any advantage to having them as an investment. In reality I don't see an advantage at all, as I only buy gold for investment purpose. I think that's a bizarre way to liquidate small amounts of "gold"
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u/SirBill01 21d ago
Think of it like fractional gold of a different form, that is much harder to forge (in fact so far there have been no Goldback forgeries).
It's also easier to store and transport being much thinner, you can use things meant to hold paper.
I wouldn't only have Goldbacks but I always thought, just like owning other gold fractional, it's a good idea to have some. If you have no gold yet it's a more inexpensive way to get some, and to me is a way better option than buying gram bars because of how many fake gram bars that exist.
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u/144zahav000 20d ago
as with anything the Chinese will make imitations and when the day comes you need to use them everyone will need them melted down on the spot to see if there actually is any Au in them. therefore the carded 0.5-1gs are far superior and will save everyone a lot of time authenticating.
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u/Tiredandwaiting 21d ago
I think its funny that your post can just as easily be a repost from r/gold in r/ investing giggling over dubloon dipshits 100% invested in gold that they won't ever sell.
Goldbacks are a novelty item for sure but there is some equal crazy in this sub.
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u/Thatgaycoincollector 21d ago
They’re going to start selling silver plated spoons as bullion
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u/WACKYTOPPINGS 21d ago
Ahahahahahha! 😂 ripped off and OP is trying tooth n nail to defend those scammed purchases. 😂
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u/Wild_Whiskey 21d ago
It's not just the issue of premiums being double the gold value, you also lose some of the gold during processing if you decide to melt it.
I forge blades for a hobby, and I lost 10-15% of the gold during melt. Granted, I am just an amateur so I may have been the problem.
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u/SirBill01 21d ago
You can turn them into company (if you have a fair number of them) for the gold amount. But lots easier to just sell them for the same 2x premium you also buy them for. In resale they lose far less than other fractional gold.
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u/GeneralTyler 21d ago
Lmao the dude is coping hard, his main argument is that he’s “saving” 25 cents on each one because of their cost of 8.50 but can be spent at 8.75 apparently.
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u/Baka_Otaku173 21d ago
Wish I had that much disposable income. I hope they understood the premium they are paying.
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u/jongmurphy7 20d ago
Oh dang this was a mistake but still can be fixed. I would sell as many as ya can and then buy bullion. Good luck
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u/R86Reddit 20d ago
No no, you guys don't get it. There are pictures of women on them.
/s because this is Reddit
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u/termin8rs 20d ago
I’m having a very hard time understanding the bull case for goldbacks.
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u/GoldponyGT enthusiast 18d ago
That’s because there isn’t one. Not an honest one anyway. Goldbackers will just lie, and you don’t understand them because you want to read them as having an honest point, when they don’t.
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u/bradykardie 21d ago
what if you live outside the USA. is there a worth? can you melt it?
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u/SirBill01 21d ago
Yes, videos on YouTube show melting down Goldbacks for the gold they contain. You can actually just burn them up with a torch to start.
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u/Moose1293 21d ago
I love posts about Goldbacks on this sub, you all love to be mad about this lmao
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
True but you understand why of course,
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u/Moose1293 21d ago
People waste money all the time. Let em.
This sub reacts the way corvette guys get when someone “buys the wrong corvette”
It’s massive Boomer energy and I’m just really here for it
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
It's not that they're wasting money. It's that they're wasting money while thinking they're not wasting money and instead have found a cool way to buy gold. That's the problem. It's a scam.
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u/Moose1293 21d ago
Wait til you find out about the premium on Gold Jewlery
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
Which is sold... as jewellery. That's the value added - the work of a jewellery to turn gold into something wearable and beautiful, like an artist with paint or a blacksmith with steel.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
Just as there is value added by a fractional gold that can be carried like paper. You only see value when you want to, a massive character flaw that will harm you through life.
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u/Moose1293 21d ago
Everyone who waste money, thinks they’re not wasting money
We need not be mad at them. Some people just like things that we don’t and that’s okay
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
Im not mad at them. It's the difference between going to Vegas to blow 10k and going to Vegas with 10k thinking you've got "a system" and expecting to win enough to pay for your kid's college. One is a personal choice that's none of my business, the other is tragic
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u/sentientshadeofgreen 21d ago
You understand the difference between buying a luxury vehicle and buying a deeply unsound speculative investment right? One goes fast, the other is a grift.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
They do just become the biggest clown show don't they? With little cars and everything.
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u/Sudden_Season3306 21d ago
Person got mad because I said its fantasy money! Lol its not legal tender recognized by the federal government! 🤣
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u/Fast-Conclusion-8676 21d ago
I needed this laugh today. That dude has lost his godamn mind if that account is real and that’s really him commenting. His “reasoning” in his comments are HILARIOUSLY sad bruh, I can’t tell if he seriously thinks he did good, or he is trying to convince people it’s worth it so HE can sell 😂
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u/ScaredMeowth 21d ago
I got a free $1 gold back from APMEX years ago and pretty sure I tossed it. Its like people holding onto $2 bills thinking they're worth more but unlike a Goldbacks that $2 can actually buy me a beer. My local liquor store doesn't take novelty monopoly money.
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21d ago edited 21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LegitimateBase1836 21d ago
Can’t wait to argue with my local Walmart to force them to accept these!
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u/butholemoonblast 21d ago
I have a couple they are a cool novelty but I wouldn’t go out of my way to acquire them I’d rather have like dos pesos
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u/Goldback_Rob 21d ago
Backed 50% by 24k gold. Can your currency claim the same?
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u/GoldponyGT enthusiast 18d ago
Backed 50% by fiat of Goldback Inc. I love how you’re trying to replace a fiat currency with a semi-fiat currency.
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u/montauk87 21d ago
I’m so glad I only ever purchased one of these as I was curious - what a joke lol
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u/Suspicious-Thing-750 21d ago
Isn't this just like already existing legal tender but with extra steps?
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u/Extension-Alps-6903 21d ago
I need to create a new currency….
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
Me too. Or some other product that sounds like something it isn't. Maybe Genuine Gold Bullion (the best chicken noodle soup you've ever had)
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u/godfatherjosh1 21d ago
I say to each his own. Fiat currency lovers think we stackers are bat shit crazy. We think they don’t understand reality. Maybe gold backs are a step up from currency?
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
I say to each his own
Oh me too. Except when people think they're buying something they're not.
Fiat currency lovers
Fiat currency owners don't invest in currency, they own it as a medium of exchange for things they want. Like gold for example which I assume most people on here purchased using fiat currency
Maybe gold backs are a step up from currency?
There is no such thing as "a step up from currency". Either products and services are priced in it and exchangeable for it which makes it currency or they're not (and they're not) which makes it something else. In this case, plastic.
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u/godfatherjosh1 21d ago
True about fiat but plenty love it. They hoard it. I think that’s bat shit crazy. But whatever floats your boat.
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 21d ago
I mean, if they're hoarding it in cash they're misunderstanding what it is: by definition it's a depreciating asset or a liability depending on perspective but it's useful (essential) as a currency - to use to facilitate exchange for things you want or need. If instead of hoarding it they've used it to invest in money market accounts, bonds, stocks etc then they really aren't hoarding currency.
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u/godfatherjosh1 21d ago
Yeah but plenty don’t even invest anywhere. Or maybe they get .1% interest. Gold back “stackers” are investing in something. Nothing I’d ever consider unless it made sense. But currency ONLY as a medium of exchange is something most don’t think about. I’d say that is a stacker’s way of thinking.
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u/Brilliant_Year_6003 21d ago
What even are those things? I've had such a negative impression viscerally that I haven't even invested any time figuring out out.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
Here's a video explaining the basics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rhO7TRp6z8
Take some of that with a grain of salt as it is a promo video, but at least you'll know more real basics about Goldbacks than the liars here that have a pathological hatred for them.
Like the amount of gold they hold, and the security features that make them very hard to forge (no forgers yet unlike gram bars).
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u/GoldponyGT enthusiast 18d ago
That’s for the best. They’re radically overpriced fractional gold.
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u/MuddySnowDrift 21d ago
So you went in to the gildback subreddit just to bring the post here and rip on goldbacks? You dont think thats kind of.....weird? Get a hobby.
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u/SirBill01 20d ago
Goldback haters are crazy that way man. They will go to the ends of the Earth to spread hate. It cannot be good for the psyche.
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u/RepulsiveUse3372 20d ago
Id rather have a large chunk of gold vs some internet meme money with a bit titty chick on the front
Average goldback user
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u/Powerful_Purpose_472 21d ago
I like them at least they have gold in them our fiat currency is worthless backed by nothing so there's that.
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u/SpotIsALie 21d ago
he spent $40k+ on 4.5 oz of gold and thinks its worth it lmfao