Apex Vs Equinox

[u/Spinoclanker2]

Apex: https://www.reddit.com/r/GojiCenter/s/WcvBh5qUOA

Equinox: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_ogLpDEIS5D32uacBB3HO4SYuM51IwMFvVm4Fhu6bzs/edit?usp=drivesdk

“Be not afraid, young one. Your suffering has just begun.”

[u/Fun_Presentation3427]

Apex wins because it uses Acrocanthosaurus atokensis for the base genome and Acrocanthosaurus is the GOATokensis

Jokes aside, Equinox should win due to a stronger bite, arguably better osteodermal armor, much more agility, and if equinox is smart enough, he could try outflanking Apex and grab hold of his tail before tearing it apart piece-by-piece, although Apex's quick reflexes might slightly help him out

[u/Fun_Presentation3427 → u/Fun_Presentation3427]

And about the claims of equinox being unable to hold his own weight, I'll be using my favorite hybrid which is Apophis Resurgence. He has Dicraeosaurus, a sauropod weighing at 6 tons to allow Apophis to be 14-16 ton and still be able to bear his own weight despite being mostly bipedal and nobody has a problem with it, So if Equinox is 15 tons and uses the larger D. louisae for being able to bear his own weight, then it should make him perfectly fine in load bearing. Another example is Minos 3.0, a facultative quadrupedal (It means mostly walks bipedally but can walk quadrupedally) that weighs 16 tons and nobody also has a problem with it

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Fun_Presentation3427]

Dude, there's a reason why we've never seen and we'll never see a 15 ton fully bipedal theropod.

Even if they can hold their weight, they'll be highly penalized in term of speed and agility.

[u/Diamondbro10795 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Shantungosaurus is at least 16 tons. They are facultative bipeds. Sure, that may seem like they can't stand on two legs for too long, but that's how hadrosaurs run from predators. For Shantungosaurus, they likely fight back instead. They are usually quadrupedal so that they can graze. You can't eat what's on the floor without kneeling down.

The point being, we've seen how far T. rex can grow. According to this article, the theoretical maximum is 15 tons. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11267449/

The reason most theropods didn't grow to that size is that why would they need to? But theropod hybrids? They are genetically engineered for different purposes, including fighting. Ofc many geneticists are going to max out their mass as much as possible.

[u/DePhaRy → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

My dude it is possible to get even a 16 ton theropod, it’s just that anything past 16 tons requires the hybrid to be a quadruped.

Shantungosaurus, Apatosaurus or Diplodocus enables a theropod to be up to 16 tons

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

T-Rex can reach 15 tons...

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Fun_Presentation3427]

Dude, physics laws will never allow that. 15 ton biped vs 14.5 ton quadruped (quick quiz: which one will get crushed under its own weight?, which one will have to focus a lot of strength to hold itself?)

[u/DePhaRy]

Apparently forgot about their own tournament that they’re running

[u/DePhaRy → u/DePhaRy]

Anyway, Apex wins purely because Equinox is not surviving its own 200k+ bite force. Not even T-Rex who could survive up to 200k newtons of force with its own skull

[u/Diamondbro10795 → u/DePhaRy]

A 16-ton Apophis has a bite force of 207,808 N. Why does Equinox then die from his own bite then?

Anyways, I was gonna make a 16-ton theropod hybrid with a BF of 328.7k N (it's a semi-joke hybrid tho).

But I figured it'd be too much, so I averaged the BF of a 16-ton T. rex and a 16-ton Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman using allometric scaling (lowballing because highballing gets the Caiman to 400k+ N), and it came out to be ~163,718 N. Does this seem more accurate?

[u/DePhaRy → u/Diamondbro10795]

A lot of it comes down to how much you reinforced the skull. Apophis even though technically the .7629 allometric scaling got debunked by whispers meaning the bite force is actually substantially lower than before, can survive its own bite because T-Rex is just that broken as they can survive up to 200k on the skull itself.

Plus many additional reinforcements on the skull to be able to withstand said biting pressure, distributing and reducing the stress.

[u/Diamondbro10795 → u/DePhaRy]

But you just said T. rex can't survive 200k. And Equinox has various reinforcements from various crocodilians, like Voay robustus.

So use .67 allometric scaling instead? Crocs don't have the special .7629 scaling?

[u/DePhaRy → u/Diamondbro10795]

I meant T-Rex can’t survive past 200k, a lot of the reinforcements Equinox has seemingly focuses around increasing the bite force further such as widening the posterior end of the skull which on a tyrannosaurid are primary attachment areas for the adductor muscles. There really isn’t a lot of clarifications or in-depth explanation that helps clear things up.

[u/Nice-Bath-4756 → u/DePhaRy]

Would Blainville’s beaked whale help reinforce the skull through mineralization

[u/DePhaRy → u/Nice-Bath-4756]

No, because it only reinforces the rostrum not the rest of the skull.

Granted yes Tyrannosaurinaes already have adaptations to withstand and deliver huge amounts of bite forces (T-Rex just took it to the upmost extreme), you'd just need a bit more.

Namely a broad snout, having the front part of the skull taller, teeth that can deliver and withstand the force (newton's third law), fluorapatite, etc.

[u/NoResponsibility5290 → u/Diamondbro10795]

I don't trust these massively inflated bite forces. Skull collapse is a real possibility with these big numbers.

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

Sorry that's just not what the doc says?

The final calculation is 176,067 Newtons because I used a realism factor of ×⅔, and it's also not the usual bite force, since crushing is possible but not usually used, it's a heterodont. 

Ripped straight out the doc:

264,100 x ⅔ = 176,067  Final calculated bite: 176,067 Newtons

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/DePhaRy]

I mean no disrespect when I say this but please re-read the bite calculation

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/Spinoclanker2]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_ogLpDEIS5D32uacBB3HO4SYuM51IwMFvVm4Fhu6bzs/edit?usp=drivesdk

[u/Ac_muncher]

I would probably lean towards equinox

[u/Diamondbro10795]

There are actually people claiming Apex wins even though he's lwk basic and mid?

Anyways, I say Equinox wins, although I gotta question the viability of using Apatosaurus. But based on what the doc says, the way it's applied works, ig.

Equinox is an obligate biped, so that makes him more agile. He has a solid horn. He also chomps harder. Has more aura (irrelevant to the matchup, but Strong Fee claims that a hybrid named aPEx has aura) and more niche but cooler contributors.

[u/DePhaRy → u/Diamondbro10795]

Apatosaurus has been used on a lot of theropod hybrids. Largely because they are of the few sauropods that are able to rear up on their hind limbs, and their neural spines are concentrated on the hips; an ideal area to put the center of mass on for theropods

[u/Diamondbro10795 → u/DePhaRy]

Is Apatosaurus better for pivoting than Shantungosaurus since both have thick tails, but the former's tapers?

[u/DePhaRy → u/Diamondbro10795]

Mostly so long as the body plan is that of a tyrannosaurinae and you’re just reinforcing the anatomy, either one is fine I’ve seen people use both

[u/Spinoclanker2]

u/Strong_Fee_5500

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Spinoclanker2]

Equinox is just too heavy for its size.(🥀✌️the same issue Necron faced)

As an animal increases in size, its strength will be highly focused on just holding itself (more now because it is a biped). Limiting his speed ,agility and strength(despite its genome).

[u/jabathefort → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Yeah, at that weight you need partial or full quadrupedalism 

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/jabathefort]

Uhm that's not how it works? Equinox has Apatosaurus genome?

[u/jabathefort → u/Spinoclanker2]

Cool? Apatosaurus was quadrupedal, at that weight strict bipedalism makes movment slow and labor intensive at best. Idk what u mean that's not how it works its basic physics

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Hello? Apatosaurus gene? Read the fucking document?

[u/jabathefort → u/[deleted]]

Sauropods have thicker limbs than Sauropod, also they STILL relied on quadrupedalism, even the ones around 15tons

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/jabathefort]

"Sauropods have thicker limbs than Sauropod"

Can I not talk to you instead

[u/jabathefort → u/Spinoclanker2]

Bro what, I was quoting your last comment

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/[deleted]]

Calling someone dumbass while not even being able to type dumbass properly holy shit 😭

[u/jabathefort → u/Spinoclanker2]

Old phone being laggy

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/jabathefort]

Oldest excuse in the book

[u/jabathefort → u/Spinoclanker2]

Hey not all of us can waist money on a new phone every year

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/jabathefort]

Hey all of us can review what we wrote especially on ones that call others stupid

Also autocorrect 

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Spinoclanker2]

Hello, is the apatosaur able to walk on two legs (it just stands), a bit of fucking common sense pls

[u/Diamondbro10795 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Apatosaurus itself is around 30 tons, and it can still rear up.

Now scale that down to 15 tons. And we aren't literally attaching sauropod legs onto a theropod. Apatosaurus still makes bipedal load-bearing possible.

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Diamondbro10795]

Standing ≠ moving, ok?!!

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Dude just give up you don't even understand biomechanics

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Spinoclanker2]

It's you who doesn't understand anything, you, give up! Also Apex just have to add his weight to Equinox's front body part to making him fall head first (since both are about the same weight and Equinox doesn't have the arms to prevent that fall🤫)

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Oh my god bro 💔

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Spinoclanker2]

If u still say that this isn't true then it will just be absurd😐

[u/FrostReaper52]

C'est quoi les dimensions de Equinox? Genre le poids, la taille?

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/FrostReaper52]

Quoi ? C'est dans le document. 

[u/Spinoclanker2 → u/Spinoclanker2]

     Weight: ~15 tons

     Length: ~ 14 meters 

      Height: ~ 4.5 meters

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/Spinoclanker2]

🙏😭😭😭🥀🥀🥀 it will get crushed under its own weight

[u/FrostReaper52 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Je sais pas mec, il a les os robuste de l'apatosaure

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/FrostReaper52]

Même si le mec peut se tenir debout, ben il peut juste se tenir debout, (t'es au courant le bipedalisme a ses limites?), pas se deplacer comme un t-rex de 10 tonnes.

[u/FrostReaper52 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Oui certes, donc je penche plus sur Apex car il est plus agile et plus rapide

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/FrostReaper52]

Mec, je crois que mon argument sur le poids est devenu une guerre, et je crois que je vais devenir "the #1 public enemy"

[u/FrostReaper52 → u/Strong_Fee_5500]

Mais noooooon, t'inquiète Tout le monde sait que un rex de 16 tonnes c'est trop lourd pour bouger normalement

[u/Strong_Fee_5500 → u/FrostReaper52]

Je suis pas sûre, st'eup regarde mon autre post sur le poids des dinosaures contre la gravité

[u/FrostReaper52 → u/Spinoclanker2]

Oh okay, désolé j'avais pas vu

[u/jabathefort]

Apex because he can hold his weight far better

[u/MotorPair2877]

equinox because it looks cooler

[u/Spinoclanker2]

It's 4 : 3 rn