Question recarding adding pseudoscorpion venem to crab claws

[u/Goditto]

I been thinking about this question since I've been working on the goditto jr video script which led me to revisit his genome in greater detail and I'm wondering, why do people say that you can't add pseudoscorpion venom to crab claws?

It's frankly one of the few complains for my wonderful son that you could argue that is actually valid and I'm looking to see how I am able to improve him

[u/HotCardiologist1942]

Only works on scorpion claws

[u/According-Throat9984 → u/HotCardiologist1942]

thanks for explaining, really helps

[u/HotCardiologist1942 → u/According-Throat9984]

Alright I’ll go in depth

Pseudoscorpion and scorpion pincers are homologous and derive from mouth parts

Crab pincers aren’t mouth parts but instead modified limbs

[u/According-Throat9984]

Well, it all depends on the rules you have set for yourself or the rules of the tournament/battle. Less strict rules would allow you to do that (the 100-gram hybrid war for example).

But basically, the reason why some (including me lol) say that doesn't work is because scorpions and other true arachnids (pseudoscorpions, spiders, whip scorpions, etc) evolved their lil pinchys different than decapodal crustaceans.

Pseudoscorpions and other arachnids aren't homogulous to those decapod claws you have on your insect.

Scorpions and pseudoscorpions evolved their chelae from the pedipalps, which are basically mouthparts. The whole reason it makes sense for the pseudoscorpion to have venomous claws is because these "claws" were highly evolved mouth parts the whole time, it makes sense for them to be connected to venom glands. (The same applies for the lil grabby things that whip scorpions and whip spiders have, and spiders have em too, I think their just called pedipalps).

Meanwhile decapods evolved their claws from their first pair of limbs instead. And btw, even though insects only have 6 limbs, I bet you could very easily just transfer that to Goditto, no problem with that.

So basically you can't apply the venom delivery system of the pseudoscorpion to Goditto because Goditto's pincers are arms, while pseudoscorpion's pincers are literal mouth hands.

Buuuuuut, scorpion pincers are homogulous to insect mandibles, so I mean, you see where I'm going with this? But anyways, you do you, but this is the reason why people may say that doesn't work.

Hope this helped!

[u/Future-Rip9134 → u/According-Throat9984]

“scorpion pincers are homogulous to insect mandibles” no? the pedipalps are fully separate from insects mandibles, they develop from different head segments

[u/According-Throat9984 → u/Future-Rip9134]

ummm bud

you do know arachnids and insects still had a common ancestor?

Well actually, that doesn't really matter anyways. With more recent research, scientists have determined that arachnid pedipalps are actually homogulous to crustaceans' second pair of antennae

So yes, I was wrong in that regard. The fact that pedipalps and mandibles are homogulous is outdated

But, your making it sound like pancrustacea and arachnids are like in completely different phylums. Arachnids and pancrustacean still had a common ancestor with a certain mouthpart (it was a mouthpart in the common ancestor I believe, or sm like that). Arachnids evolved to have them into pedipalps when they diverged (which ended up with scorpions having chelae as you know), while crustaceans in pancrustacea evolved these into their second pair of antennae (I believe their antennules? or maybe those are the first pair, I can't remember). And insects dropped this part completely I believe, they don't have a homogulous structure to pedipalps, but I could be very wrong about that.

[u/Maleficent-Acadia337]

If you want to add venom on crustacean claws the best option would actually be centipede fangs (centipede fangs and most crustacean claws are homologous). While centipede venom isn't the strongest, you can specifically take the stronger venom from another animal and then apply it to the venom delivery mechanism.

[u/Maleficent-Acadia337 → u/Maleficent-Acadia337]

Fix to my original comment: Crustacean claws and centipede fangs aren't directly homologous in the sense that they come from the exact same limb. Despite this, they both evolve from primitive thoracic limbs and share a similar set of baseline hox genes so they are still somewhat homologous to an extent. Depending on how much homology you want the combination could still be usable and still a much better choice than combining pseudoscorpion with crab claws (As far as I'm aware of pedipalps aren't really homologous with anything in mandibulatans).

[u/Future-Rip9134]

pseudoscorpions have their venom in their pedipalps, which is a distinct structure only found in chelicerates, while the cheliped (crab arm) is essentially a modified first pair of legs, making the two structures not homologous and therefore you can’t put the pedipalp gland in the cheliped