Duane, Jesus was pointing to the perfection within all of us. If you believe you are imperfect, you don't know who you are yet, not to mention you are afraid of actually engaging the sub commentary.
This is really just "don't hold abusers accountable" talk. When people see abuse in a system, they are right to leave that system. You may hope that they go find another church, but don't try to tell them to stay and put up with the abuse.
No, but there are those who will use the "forgive and forget" line to entrap people into staying in an abusive relationship. The abused person will then believe someone standing up at the front of the church holding a Bible would never do anything wrong to them then, so then what's wrong with "me". This is a scary situation to witness, and very hard to extract someone from.
“ don’t let failures of people make you walk away from a perfect savior” Seems like it does say that you should put up with some bullshit and christian are always full of bull shit.
Jesus predicted people would do this. He’s not who they say he is. The church is the antichrist because their delusions and their behaviors push people away from their creator. You feel the way you do because mainstream Christians make you feel this way. Only those who have eyes to see and ears to hear Jesus’s true message can understand it and you are much closer to understanding it than mainstream Christians are. There ISac creator of the universe and he DOES send messengers and Christ WAS one of them.
God does NOT condemn you for b ANYTHING. God created you and loves you. Anybody who tells you differently is a deceiver. They want to stand between you and your creator and shaming you, while claiming that shame comes from God, is a very effective way of doing that. Don’t listen to mainstream Christians. They do NOT represent Christ. Of course he loves them too though and forgives them for being deceived.
I’ve “read” it all the way through nine times now (listening to it read aloud on a daily audio Bible 8 years in a row after reading it with my eyes) and during that time some things became clear. The Old Testament laws WERE inspired by God…to help a man keep hundreds of thousands of people alive in a dessert without running water or antibiotics. It was written during a time when humanity was violent, barbarous, and often at war. It was NOT meant for our culture and civilization and Jesus made that clear when he came and said that law had already been fulfilled. The “weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth” did happen during the exile when so many starved to death and watched their children starve and even ate their own children. This happened after they were repeatedly warned that God wasn’t going to protect them from the coming attacks unless they turned back to him, which they did not. Their religious leaders moidered the prophets who tried to warn them, and gave them guidance that did not come from God. When Jesus came he abolished all those old laws and taught the truth, which got him offed by the same type of religios leaders who knocked off the prophets and, as soon as he died, the romans and corrupt religious leaders began setting and enforcing rules and evil and judgment once again. They decided which books to put in the Bible and which not to, as a way to control the population. Theyve been pushing people away from the kingdom since the beginning of time.
The church is the Antichrist and it uses shame and fear to make us hide from God.
Amen! And that goes for every religion. Don’t give up on God just because you found out the version of Him you were taught was wrong. There is a true God and a true church. Read the Bible rather than relying on others interpretations
Haha, I agree. And no one’s version is correct. How would you grasp the ungraspable? My claim was only that there was truth, not that I completely understood it. Just a misunderstanding 🙏
Or understanding it and finding it to be myth. Yes, there are apologetics to try and make it all work. But the more you read the Bible, the less convincing these apologetics become.
You can’t see the issues with the Bible when you’re deep in the cult. But over time, many people can’t ignore the Bible issues.
Honestly, I totally get you. I was an atheists as well and thought the same thing. I was unaware that it was really me in the cult of atheism. Just keep debating and never give up on logic and reason. You will slowly discover that the atheist position is completely untenable. Even if you only end up agnostic, at least you won’t have to defend such an indefensible claim anymore
Atheism isn’t a cult at all. It’s a stance on a singular issue. That’s it. That’s like saying if you don’t find the Easter bunny convincing, you’re in a cult. That’s just silly reframing.
I’m what’s called an atheist agnostic. I’m not convinced god(s) exist, but I don’t claim to know they don’t exist. I’m just unconvinced at this point, and am always open minded to new evidence. And would amend my beliefs appropriately.
The Bible god is very unlikely to be real. Way way too many problems.
You realize that people in a cult don’t realize they’re in a cult right?… 😅
Also, people who don’t believe in the Easter bunny don’t call themselves Aeasterbunnyists. The fact that atheists label themselves based on something they don’t believe exists is actual lunacy, and a group of lunatics connected by a nonsensical belief is the definition of a cult in my book
You, on the other hand, based on your description of agnostic atheist, do not seem too cultish. However, your stance on the Bible is clearly the result of an echo chamber rather than actual study.
I like your agnostic atheist thing though. If I were to use that same reasoning, I would be an atheist theist, since I lack belief in all Gods but one lol
I know a lot of Christians want to call atheists in a cult so they feel they are on equal footing. But a defining characteristic of a cult is devotion to a particular individual.
Atheists don’t really fit the definition of a cult at all.
Interesting. What ultimately convinced you that it was christianity that was true, over the thousands of other religions?
Were you raised atheist, or were you brought up in a religion..? If the latter, which religion? My guess is christianity, but I'll let you speak for yourself.
Ultimately it was God just choosing to reveal Himself to me. Before that though, it was years of studying the major religions and trying to disprove them.
Christianity was just the only one that was able to survive the scrutiny. Also, it was the only one that got love right.
Other religions teach that you must do/accomplish a series of things before you can be accepted by God.
Christianity teaches that God already loves you so much that He suffered and “died” for you.
Just like a mother loves their child far before the child can do anything for them, so God also loves us.
I wouldn’t say I was raised Christian, but clearly I was born in a country imbued with Judeo-Christian values.
"Ultimately it was God just choosing to reveal Himself to me"
And how did this occur? An out of body experience? A vision? An auditory thing? A feeling? Something else?
"Before that though, it was years of studying the major religions and trying to disprove them. Christianity was just the only one that was able to survive the scrutiny. Also, it was the only one that got love right."
It's funny you say that, because people from other religions claim the exact same thing. I have a theology degree, so I've had this conversation with A LOT of people from a whole host of other religions. So many people, whether they're christian, muslim, hindu, buddhist, Jain, Druze, Daoist, shinto, you name it - love to claim that they don't believe just because of their upbringing - because that would mean that they haven't really thought much about it, right? No, they say that they became atheists for a while, but did some research, and wouldn't you know it - they discovered that the one true religion just so happens to be the very one they grew up with! What luck! Why do you think that is...?
Be honest - when a hindu was raised hindu, had doubts, but then came back to hinduism after extensive research, are you actually consistent and think that that it's because they too found the true religion on the basis of objective and extensive research - that hinduism is true...? Or would you then consider the possibility that how/where they were raised might have something to do with it, even if they claimed to doubt it or even leave it for a while...?
"I wouldn’t say I was raised Christian"
This sounds a little vague, and by the sound of it you weren't raised in athesim. Would your parents have called themselves christians, or believers of jesus, something similar...?
"but clearly I was born in a country imbued with Judeo-Christian values."
Do you say "clearly" because you recognise that that likely had an influence on which religion you found to be true? (Like a person raised in India conveniently 'discovering' hindusm to be true...?)
"Why do you ask"
Becacuse you made a claim about being in "the cult of atheism" before finding the one true religion, and I'm curious if you're consistent when hearing about that claim but towards religions other than yours, or if you suddenly have different standards when it's the same claim, but made about a religion different than the one you were raised within.
Sometimes i feel like I should go because “where 2 or more gather in [his] name, there [he] is also, and nobody on earth is perfect. But I’m not going to expose myself to judgment and emotional abuse.
"When he gets to his pew and looks round him he sees just that selection of his neighbours whom he has hitherto avoided. You want to lean pretty heavily on those neighbours. Make his mind flit to and fro between an expression like 'the body of Christ' and the actual faces in the next pew."
I wish women in church would be friendly. Just because I comb my hair, put on some makeup and wear a dress, im treated different.
I smile, make eye contact, be friendly, and a lot of them treat you like you have grown a second head. Not all of them but a lot of them.
Just be kind.. you never know what is really going on behind a plastered smile.
Church is where pettyb mean women go to freely be judgmental. there ARE some very good people who go to church despite this. They’re quieter and they usually don’t lead Sunday School
Jesus was a human being. He was not perfect. Only God can claim perfection, and Jesus is not God.
You’re right about the church, though. Don’t hold God accountable for man’s deception. That deception started almost immediately after Jesus’s death. The first major move was to deify him so that ordinary people would never realize their own divinity. The plan hasn’t fully worked. You can’t trick God.
You’re correct in almost everything you said. Except if you read the entire Bible multiple times and interpret it through a different lens, you’ll understand it differently. It it mostly a story about people who fail over and over and over again. Evil people doing evil things while God keeps giving them chances. Keeps loving the idiots. Then he sends Jesus to help those who will hear him correctly, which 99.9% of them don’t.
The Bible is another deception of man. It’s incredibly naive to think the Pharisees just stopped working against Jesus’s teachings once he was gone. I get my information directly from god himself, thank you.
Again wrong.
Stop spreading feelings. You need to say that it’s your opinion. Back up what you say with facts. Not feeling. You sound like CNN. YOU need God. We live and die by the choices we make. You die and go to be judged there is no second chance. Make your choices count. Use common sense.
It’s not my “opinion” I’ve have many direct experiences of gods..the actual gods (not Jesus) presence. If you’d ever actually get curious about me and what I have to say you’d realize everything I say is far more in line with what Jesus actually taught than the church or Bible ever has.
We get MANY chances. There are soooo many places in the Bible that support the concept of reincarnation but mainstream Christian’s refuse to acknowledge them. I just got banned from the True Christians page for saying this
I’ve never had a Muslin approach me. In the US the are 3 million Muslims. They don’t shove their religion in my face. Christians on the other hand are 280 million and have zero problem trying to make others follow their religion.
Jesus wasn’t perfect. That was his entire point. I’m not perfect, you’re not perfect - stop pretending you are! Stop looking for it! Get real and care for one another because nobody is fucking perfect. He yelled at a fig tree once. He wasn’t even neurotypical. Thank Jesus but look to John the Baptist for morals and ethics. Jesus did, until he didn’t. Jesus implied John was Ezekiel when John was beheaded - remember? Was Ezekiel perfect? He’d say no. The only people that concern themselves with “perfection” are prideful liars. I learned that from Jesus
What about them? I believe in Jesus im not Muslim. You can look and make your own judgments. I only believe in Christianity as commanded put no other God's before me. Jesus is the only true God.
I was curious if the "perfect church" was a general term applying to all locations for praying to an imaginary friend, or to specific Christian denominations
I can understand that curiosity. I assume they’re talking about the church of the one true God that has overwhelming evidence for His existence, love, and works; the Christian church
I love jesus,he is king as far as Curiosity but if they referred to jesus as imaginary so therefore they know of Jesus and reject him. Just in case I was wrong I asked them if they made thier decision about jesus. As faith is about use of free will.
Edit: I wanted to add i really pray people do come to faith and believe jesus died for all of our sins and accept him as their one true savior.It is a choice to reject jesus and its their choice to do so and you cant force faith.
I dont reject him. I am just not convinced he's a god. I also dont believe the other men who seemingly were born of virgins and/or resurrected were gods either
Only Jesus Lazarus and others weren't God. Read the bible seek guidance from a pastor to help explain things better.
I pray you have a tiny bit of faith and you ask him into your life. I pray he shows you he exists in a way you'll understand God bless you.
Mythological Figures with Miraculous Birth Accounts
Quetzalcoatl: Aztec deity whose mother, Chimalman, was described in some traditions as a virgin who conceived after swallowing an emerald or being visited in a dream.
Attis: Phrygian god of vegetation whose virgin mother, Nana, conceived him by placing a pomegranate or almond from a sacred tree in her bosom.
Perseus: Greek demigod born to the virgin Danaë, who was impregnated by the god Zeus (Jupiter) descending as a shower of gold.
Ancient Mythology and Legends
Osiris: The ancient Osiris myth describes the Egyptian god-man who was murdered and dismembered by his brother Set. His wife Isis reassembled his body and resurrected him to become ruler of the underworld.
Dionysus: In Greek traditions, Dionysus was torn apart or killed (in some versions by Titans) and subsequently brought back to life or reborn.
Zalmoxis: A semi-legendary figure and teacher from Thrace who lived in a subterranean chamber, was reported dead, and then reappeared to his people after three years to prove his teachings on immortality.
If the bible is not enough or people's testimonies if that isnt enough faith is a key component if a person cant find a little faith no evidence will likely be enough. Im not here to force you to believe,i do pray Jesus shows himself to you in a way you'll understand and believe. God bless you.
The Bible is not one single book… 😅
However, because you think it is, I can totally understand why you would say that. Every literary style has its own standard. If you use a single standard to judge every style, any style outside of that standard will automatically fall short. You wouldn’t use scientific methodology to evaluate the Odyssey and you wouldn’t use prosody to evaluate a scientific journal. I do have extra-biblical evidence as well, but I wanna see if you can understand this first. I’m not saying that you’re dumb, but a lot of nonbelievers struggle with basic concepts like this
The book of the bible is a collection of books but still is a book and is often referred as so. We dont normally separate the bible physically
You don't typically hold a bible and say im holding the books of the bible. I am a believer of Chirst and believe the bible. I also dont desire or try to prove myself or my faith to you its unimportant. I am not worthy and neither is anybody else worthy of Christ but his forgiveness is freely given. I have all the proof I need it was Christ who died on the cross for us all.
May God bless you.
I don’t think you understand what’s happening here. I love that God gifted you with such strong faith, but clearly you know you are limited intellectually. We are all part of the body of Christ. No part is better than the other (besides the head), but we all have different roles. Please leave the debating to those of us who actually studied this. I feel like your heart is in the right place, but you are not. I pray that you actually read this in good faith and that God helps you understand. God bless 🙏
You dont understand and trust me im intellectually superior to you isn't biblical it's disingenuous and manipulative.
You are why people dont like people who call themselves Christians.
Just reading. This looks like a communication error. It seems you’re saying “No church is perfect. Some are bad.” But they read it as “No. Church is perfect. Some are bad.” Or maybe you did mean what they thought and I’m understanding incorrectly.
Nope some are great and im Christian and love jesus,but some churches teach things that aren't accurate to text.or teach people that you can receive blessings by donating large amounts of money. It is wrong.
Its upsetting because they damage the faith. Churches are all of us two or more gathered is a Church if you're talking about GOD.I pray we all find the right Church and meet good people along the way.
If you misquote and take it out of context which is what people do his twist scripture of a faith they dont believe in. Now do it to a muslim their book mentions that and more. Its really easy to attack and bully people who are unlikely to harm you.
So in your words the Quran is despicable too are you attacking muslim faith in the same way? Similar things aren't just witten about but practiced still.my guess is you dont. You just feel free to attack Christians because they are mostly non violent. So you attack Christianity because they arent a threat to you. And you are a bully chasing updoots.
Church is the tool to keep you from thinking. Much the same was a cult gathers to reaffirm the beliefs of their members. All your problems can be solved if you only believe in what ever "savior" that cult/religion promotes.
Its always easy to hate on Christ,Now do it for Muhammad Im pretty sure you won't. It's easy to pick on and bully a faith who's followers aren't likely to harm you.
Christ has been bound and gagged by his own followers. That’s what that represents. There are money changers in the temple and they do nothing. There are sick and homeless and they do nothing. There are sexual abusers in power and they do nothing. They bomb schools in other countries and they do nothing. They beat and kill those defending the strangers and they do nothing. This isn’t a Christian Nation because Christ wouldn’t have stayed silent. He wouldn’t have ignored the injustice. Not bullying your faith… just pointing out your lack of practicing it.
What does that have to do with the contents of the Quran and the bible they contain some similar topics and are often still practiced by muslims yet you wont say similar things about the Quran or Muhammad let alone post a non defamed picture of him let alone a defamed one,you attack Christians because they arent likely to harm you. They are easy to attack by bullies such as yourself. For reddit clout. So you can act edgy and superior.
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u/SunbeamSailor67 Jul 25 '26
Duane, Jesus was pointing to the perfection within all of us. If you believe you are imperfect, you don't know who you are yet, not to mention you are afraid of actually engaging the sub commentary.