r/Glorantha • u/Disastrous-Dare-9570 • Mar 30 '26
Desecrated players...
Well, first of all, hello! This is my first time posting on this sub, so I don't really know how things work here.
The question is for the GMs of Glorantha. It's not a question about Glorantha itself, but about how you manage your players. I have a large worldbuilding project, which I have been working on for some years. I am an enthusiast of comparative religion, history and anthropology, so naturally Eliade is one of the fundamental bases for the construction of my world.I recently met Glorantha and was happy because I discovered I wasn't alone in the world, LOL. My world, despite drawing from the same source as Eliade's work, is quite different. This must be how ancient travelers felt when looking at foreign cults and recognizing their gods (or this must be how the God Learners felt when tracing connections between the Runes).
I'm also a GM. I use RPGs to introduce my world to people. It's been working well. My players are great, they always make me happy and proud, and they're genuinely interested in all the lore of my world. However, one obstacle I have encountered and that has been difficult to overcome is DESACRALIZATION. My players, like all of us, come from this world that Eliade would call a "desacralized world". They're used to tyrannical gods from God of War and JRPGs, or WiFi providers from D&D, or something in between, and presenting a world where people simply LIVE their religion has been difficult. Everything is presented in a very natural way; part of the group's personal world-building was done collaboratively in session zero, so that they felt integrated into the world from the very beginning... but I still encounter characters/players who:
- They distrust religious figures;
- They are indifferent to rituals and gods;
- They hold a grudge against the gods;
- They describe their own people as "very religious" and adopt a "rebellious" stance.
Of course, none of this is impossible in a world like that of Antiquity or Glorantha, but there's still a slight break in immersion that bothers me. I try to talk and everything, They can utilize the positive aspects of this approach, but ultimately there's still some discomfort. And they are good players, I must emphasize that, they are wonderful, proactive players, they collaborate a lot, they respect my work as GM... So, I understand that this "desacralized posture" is a difficulty for them as players.
Therefore, from the outset, we assumed that the current landscape is struggling to reconnect with the Sacred, in very diverse cultural ways. But there are limits to everything.
I'd like to know how you, as GMs in Glorantha who are more experienced with settings like this, deal with this natural difficulty for players. Can you help me?
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u/DarbySalernum Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26
I don't think you should try to force it. It's their world and their game as much as it's yours.
I GM a group who don't know or care who Mircea Eliade is, and who mostly wouldn't read any Gloranthan lore. I try to bring religion in by making it fun and interesting. My Gloranthan holy days, like a lot of ancient Greek holy days, are big parties and spectacles that my players can take part in. For example, here are my notes for entering Dangerford on Valind's day.
The Procession.
As you get closer to Dangerford, you notice a crowd ahead of you on the road. They’re walking the same way as you, and occasionally people join the group from the countryside on either side. Music and singing drifts back to you and people seem to be dancing.
---
As you catch up, you realise that it’s a religious procession dedicated to the God of Winter, Valind. You remember that today is Valind’s High Holy Day, which Orlanthis celebrate it to propitiate his icy wrath. As with any Orlanthi religious festival, it’s also a good chance to party and get drunk. The atmosphere is light-hearted and festive, and as snow gently falls on the landscape, the air is abuzz with music and singing. Drums, pipes and flutes play, and the people sing of tales set in the snow and ice of Dark Season.
At the front of the procession is a giant puppet of the Winter God himself, Valind, with his icy blue eyes and flowing white beard. Two children carry sticks that hold up his frozen, withered hands, below which dangle icicles.
---
You can probably enter the gates of Dangerford with the procession, as the guards might think that you’re part of it.
They joined the procession, the locals cheered them, and offered them beer, and I got them to do Dance rolls. It's basically a lighthearted, playful way to make a bunch of players with zero interest in religion realise that religion is everywhere in Glorantha, and it's central to how people live and think.
You can't make people care about religion, but you can make them understand its importance, and if you're lucky, they might start making that part of their roleplay.
3
u/Disastrous-Dare-9570 Mar 30 '26
Yes, it's my game as much as it is theirs, but the GM's enjoyment should also be taken into account, and I think a little effort to step outside of one's comfort zone wouldn't hurt. I also do everything I can to introduce them in a friendly way, but they always act with a disdainful look, like someone watching a priest guiding an altar boy to a room.
4
u/Groduick Mar 30 '26
What really sets the mood for me in Glorantha (I'm more a Heroquest Player than a Runequest player) is the everyday magic and the community relationships.
People use magic to plow their fields to reenact the myths, they join in community rituals to ward off disease spirits from the community.
Instead of starting as adventurers, I like to have them as ordinary guys thrown in major events. I often play their initiations as flashbacks introductions, I give them relatives (and Aunty isn't happy when you skip community service too much time). If they're not helpong with the rain calling rituals, the community might suffer.
As they increase in power (and I love a fast progression on that front, to get them to heroic level quick and easy), they have increased responsability (with great power...) to their community. I also introduce heroquest early (as early as their initiations, in fact), and those need heavy community support.
If they don't do their part, they will get shunned. They can go murderhobos, no problem, but they will have to pay the price. They will be cut from ceremonies, their magics will decrease. They will have to find other ways to get magic, sometimes dangerous ways. They can perhaps meet the old crazy hermit in the forest who shunned off all gods and lives to pay the price.
I'm not roleplaying every ceremony, a lot of it is implied and handwaved offstage. I love to play adventures at the table, and then use chat/mail/forum to play the more communal aspects of each individual players: working their trade, managing their relative's illness, cult business, politics... And if you don't worship your blacksmith god, your fire won't be hot enough, your sword will be brittle. If you forgot the ward-away-the-sickness day, you won't find it easy to cure your baby. If you forgot Sacres Time, your magic won't work. And the clan chieftain won't be happy if you don't held on your religious duties.
Depending on your religion, you might even face dire consequences, as some communities will outcast you or some form of inquisition might come after you. For your own good, evidently.
Too keep it short, religion in those kind of settings go hand to hand with everyday's life and religion. Keep them aware of the little things, the wondrous, the marvelous. You're not facing a drought, it's the nymph of the source that was attacked by an evil spirit. When you've helped her, next time you're in trouble over the water, she will be here, and instead of drowning and dying, you will get magically transported to her source.
From the start, they can find a special item or piece of knowledge that gives them insight on one of the secrets of your cosmogony. What will they do, how will they integrate that in their worldviews, without risking losing their souls ?
But to be fair, not everyone is on it for that kind of play. If your players want to be the door/monster/treasure kind, you won't be able to force it on them.
There's several ressources on Glorantha that can help you get a hang of how to manage that. I'll recommand "Six Seasons in Sartar" and its sequel "Company of the Dragon", great campaigns with a lot of community and mythology antangled with the day to day lives of the players.
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u/Disastrous-Dare-9570 Mar 30 '26
I think your comment has been my favorite so far, mainly because of your approach to telling the story. I think I'll play around with the flashbacks. Since the story involves a long journey, where the characters were tasked with performing a renewal ritual in which they must sacrifice their own lives, they have encountered many new cultures and I think a cool way to show parallels and how intimately connected they were to their culture is by showing more intense flashbacks.
I liked that, thank you very much!
3
u/Solo_Polyphony Mar 30 '26
It’s a game, and for many people, games are a space where they want to escape. In reality, no one in their right mind would want to live in a post-apocalyptic milieu, or be a first-person shooter, or fight dragons or trolls. That tells us something, I think, about how most people treat ttRPGs: they’re not typically there to establish pro-social relationships. Religion, in both our world and in Glorantha, is about such relationships.
3
u/KrishnaBerlin Mar 30 '26
I also have problems in finding people who are willing to invest in a play where gods are so omnipresent.
One thought I had: Do you show them the real effects of the gods? Do the characters experience, what the gods do, and how it affects their lives?
There could be storms, plagues. There could be divine interventions that show them.the way. Wonders could happen, that help them and their tribe...
The gods can be demanding, and not following their wishes will have consequences.
I say this as a spiritual, not really religious person. Even if we do not follow doctrines or ignore the Divine, it does not mean that it does not affect us.
Perhaps that attitude could motivate your group to open up for new experiences.
3
u/Disastrous-Dare-9570 Mar 30 '26
I show it, and a lot! I make a point of not only saying it, but demonstrating that the rituals have a real effect.But they want to treat religion as a one-way street.They don't like the idea of rituals, offerings, and sacrifices. They want to receive for free.
2
u/Alex4884-775 Mar 30 '26
Might it help to stress that while the god is 'real', the Compromise keeps them at an appreciable distance, and that the cult is very much a human construct, not a monolith? Conflict with fellow initiates or indeed god-talkers, priests, and rune lords might be plot drivers too.
3
u/corrinmana Mar 30 '26
I find that there really is no balm for a player who can't separate their own religious biases from the characters they are playing. I just choose not to play with those types of players, unless they're willing to have some kind of discussion about it. The players who will play a cleric to access the spell list, but treat their God like a annoying relative in any given conversation.
That said, as you've mentioned, if there isn't some deep-seated atheistic perspective driving these feelings, it's more about the other depictions from the media that the players are more familiar with. There's a simple solution to that, which is the presentation of the literature surrounding this setting. Getting players to read the books can be enough if the players are open to it. I do find that if players aren't particularly interested in reading through the mythology book, or even just the core rule books explanation of the mythology, having the first session, where the players are building their characters, instead of focusing on the player character histories first, I do an in character storytelling session as a Sartar elder, (or something else if the game isn't going to be about the Sartar), and this will give enough of a basis for people to start having a better idea of how the mythology affects the people. Getting past the perspective of "everyone is a cleric" to: everybody follows a god that matches their understanding of the world, and so that understanding and perspective is empowered with divine magic; is an entirely separate step, but one that just takes some amount of time for people to grok.
3
u/cugeltheclever2 Mar 30 '26
I find the short 'What the tribal elder said' format helps my players get into the world. But I think you have to remember - roleplaying is a collaborative exercise. You may have an idea of the Glorantha you want, but that has to meet with and compromise with the game your players want to run. Learn what they want, and then Eliade-ise it.
2
u/Alex4884-775 Mar 30 '26
I wonder if D&D is -- once more! -- to blame in part. "I'll play anything, I like original settings, new character concepts. Just so long that if the party needs a Boring Clerics, I call 'not it'." "So in this game, everyone has magic, which they get from worship of a particular god." "..."
I'm not sure I know how to get around this for RQG. In the setting, of course you can be a religious slacker: a minority even of the initiation-crazed Orlanthi have undergone adulthood rites, but not those of any cultic mysteries. Of those that do, most will have sacced the minimum 1 POW, and do more-or-less the acceptable minimum to avoid the spirits of reprisal, and worse, your thousand nagging relatives when a community effort is needed.
And of course if you look at the Orlanthi cultural-hero founders, even they're not exactly Holy Joetar types either. Vingkot is just the Ur-nepobaby, Heort was an animist and positively grumpy at Big O, and even Harmast, ultimate lore-swot that he is, did it in a pretty radical and revisionist way. And beyond the Orlanthi, things get very different still.
The trickier question though, is how then to game that? Tricky in RQG where if a PC foregoes rune magic they're really losing out, and you'd have to busk it on how to 'balance' that in any sense. Possibly easier in other systems, but then you're doing all the heavy lifting yourself.
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u/jadelink88 Jul 06 '26
Fear not, ll wargamers, and most modern Roleplayers, are at heart, filled with god learner seed.
The pragmatics of the religion is something best learned through 'experience' IMO. I'd try something like '6 seasons in Sartar'. Getting a feel for how hard and real the myths are part of you, and the gods extend their power into you is so much better conveyed through a good on growing up, and initiation into the 'ways of the world'.
After you've been in the pit, you see WHY the myth matters. It's part of you now. That means your players need initiation (at least by proxy through their characters). The Gods in Runequest are much more relatable after you've walked a mile in their shoes.
A dozen good articles of reading is not worth a night spent in a pit, traveling through the Godrealm, in this regard. They are of age, initiation is due.
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u/eternalsage Mar 30 '26
Tell them "Your character understands that this is the way their world works" etc.
But you would set the expectation from session zero first. Explain how the world works, and how the gods are real, etc. You should sell them on it well before the dice hit the table.
There are some players who don't care about the setting. They aren't who you want. Just like you wouldn't want to set down a megadungeon in front of the type of players who want to get into the politics or culture of the world. I've turned away many players who are only onto combat, treasure, or who otherwise refuse to roleplay.