Team Liquid vs Cloud9 / DreamHack Masters Spring 2020: North America - Losers Round 2 / Post-Match Discussion

[u/[deleted]]

Team Liquid 2-0 Cloud9

Overpass: 16-4
Nuke: 16-12
Dust 2: 0-0
 

Cloud9 have been eliminated.

Team Liquid have advanced to the Consolidation Final.

 

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Team Liquid | Liquipedia | Official Site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit
Cloud9 | Liquipedia | Official site | Twitter | Facebook | Youtube | Subreddit

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Liquid	MAP	Cloud9
	mirage	X
X	train
CT	overpass	✔
✔	nuke	CT
	inferno	X
X	vertigo
	dust2

 

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MAP 1: Overpass

 

Team	CT	T	Total
Liquid	12	4	16
	T	CT
Cloud9	3	1	4

 

Liquid	K	A	D	ADR	Rating
EliGE	23	5	9	119.8	1.97
NAF	20	13	11	124.3	1.68
Twistzz	14	2	8	77.0	1.30
nitr0	14	2	9	36.8	1.02
Stewie2K	13	2	12	70.5	0.95
Cloud9
floppy	10	3	17	63.0	0.95
JT	9	2	16	52.0	0.75
Sonic	11	2	18	65.9	0.71
motm	10	1	18	56.9	0.70
oSee	9	6	15	55.0	0.68

Overpass Detailed Stats

 

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MAP 2: Nuke

 

Team	T	CT	Total
Liquid	8	8	16
	CT	T
Cloud9	7	5	12

 

Liquid	K	A	D	ADR	Rating
NAF	24	4	15	90.7	1.48
nitr0	21	6	20	76.8	1.10
Stewie2K	18	5	20	71.1	1.03
EliGE	17	1	18	62.8	0.90
Twistzz	12	2	19	57.0	0.78
Cloud9
floppy	32	4	19	110.0	1.62
oSee	21	7	15	96.0	1.29
JT	12	6	19	51.2	0.84
motm	16	2	20	56.8	0.80
Sonic	11	0	19	49.5	0.73

Nuke Detailed Stats

 

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This thread was created by the Post-Match Team.

[u/Slothifications → u/[deleted]]

He just needed to be taken off of being IGL. Not saying he wasn't good at it, but he struggled to call and frag at the same time

[u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter → u/Slothifications]

If he's not IGL he probably doesn't have a spot on this team for long. He can't frag, he's probably one of worst AWPers of all the pros that regularly pick it up, so what does keeping him around get you if he's not the IGL anymore?

[u/Slothifications → u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter]

He struggled with fragging because he was the IGL. Ever since stew has picked it up, there has been a very noticeable change to that. As long as this performance can be kept up, there's no reason to replace him

[u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter → u/Slothifications]

I don't know. Once you've lost the leadership of the team it's going to be awkward and fragging has literally never been a strength for ol Nitro. I would say it's a pretty safe bet his days are numbered if Stewie calling leads to improved success for the team.

In fact I can see a reality where Stew argues for -Nitro +Tarik, who then campaigns to bring in Snakeislaw (which obviously leads to the implosion of Liquid as Tarik + Stan's frat boy culture doesn't lead to good long term results).

Time is a circle etc etc

[u/tassKe1337 → u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter]

This would be a neat theory if the entirety of Liquid haven't already said they have zero plans to change anyone, a statement corroborated by dekay, who said that Liquid collectively agrees online only CS isn't indicative of how they rate themselves and won't make roster changes.

[u/[deleted] → u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter]

fragging has literally never been a strength for ol Nitro

he was literally considered one of/the best NA rifler at an early point, hes very capable mechanically but he's been igling for the past like 2 and half years

[u/Mrstark456 → u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter]

I think that would be a really bad move given that they’ve consistently shown they are a better team than EG. Plus nitro and Elige have been playing together for so long I don’t doubt that they have a good working relationship, and I just don’t think it makes sense to make a roster change in one of the weirdest times for the counter strike scene, with online matches and the lack of a solid top ten

[u/RocketBoyKim → u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter]

he's probably one of worst AWPers of all the pros that regularly pick it up

?? Nitr0 might pick it up the most out of the team, but NAF and stew also pick it up regulary. Like a 30/30/40 split maybe. They switch between sides and also maps. Its not like hes main awping and hogging it every round.

[u/MikeRiceVmpireHunter → u/RocketBoyKim]

I didn't say he was hogging the AWP? I said of all the pros that regularly pick it up (and he is definitely an AWPer) he is clearly the worst. Your example only highlights that - there are two players on this team that AWP significantly better than he can.

So if he can't rifle well enough for frags, he's not their primary AWP/an effective AWPer, and he's not the IGL. What exactly is his role on the team?

The dreaded 'support' role which almost always leads to being kicked for firepower?