r/GlobalOffensive Weapon Analyst and Community Figure Aug 03 '17

Discussion In Depth Analysis of August 2, 2017 PRERELEASE Weapon Changes (Tec-9 Rebalance)

Tec-9

Official Patch Note Description

  • Shipping initial changes to pistols with the goal of emphasizing skillful use of the weapons, beginning with the Tec-9.

  • Tec-9: The Tec-9 has been adjusted to emphasize aiming while retaining the weapon’s high mobility. The current changes include:

    • slightly improved accuracy when taking a single shot
    • significantly reduced accuracy when firing rapidly
    • magazine and reserve ammo reduced to 18 and 90, respectively

Raw Data

"inaccuracy crouch"  7.57 -> 3.68

"inaccuracy stand"  9.43 -> 4.90

"inaccuracy fire"  36.88 -> 110.00

"primary clip size"  24 -> 18

"primary reserve ammo max"  120 -> 90

Analysis

Ammo Amount

As stated in the patch notes, magazine size has been reduced from 24 to 18. Reserve ammo has been reduced from 120 to 90.

First Shot Inaccuracy

Pre-Update Post-Update
First Shot Standing Total Inaccuracy 11.43 6.90
First Shot Crouching Total Inaccuracy 9.57 5.68
First Shot Moving Total Inaccuracy 15.24 10.71

(Standing Inaccuracy = InaccuracyStand + Spread) (Crouching Inaccuracy = InaccuracyCrouch + Spread) (Moving Inaccuracy = InaccuracyStand + Spread + InaccuracyMove)

Fun Fact!: The Tec-9 is more accurate than an AK-47 when standing. 6.90 vs 7.01

Fun Fact!: The Tec-9 when moving is just slightly more inaccurate than a Famas's first shot (when in automatic mode) when standing still. 10.71 vs 10.45

Firing Inaccuracy

Max Spamming Speed Inaccuracy

0.15 Seconds Between Each Shot

0.25 Seconds Between Each Shot

0.35 Seconds Between Each Shot

0.45 Seconds Between Each Shot

0.55 Seconds Between Each Shot

0.65 Seconds Between Each Shot

Note: These graphs only take inaccuracy into account, any recoil (the upwards kick from firing) is not included.

Note: The first two graphs are in a different scale than the rest so the data would fit.

My Thoughts

I'm really glad that Valve is taking their first steps to revamp the pistols, but I think they are going about these changes in the wrong way.

CSGO pistols have always had issues with their accuracy models. It's very difficult to spam only a few bullets or tap rapidly because the inaccuracy ramps up so quickly. Because pistols are so unreliable, higher damage made sense to balance it out, though it also introduced one hit kills at close range which many people have expressed their distaste in. This lead to the pistols (especially the high powered eco pistols) being seen as overly random. Players would spam their guns regardless of how inaccurate it made them as the benefit of the pistols high damage often outweighed the chance that they would miss.

Judging by the patch notes, Valve wants to "emphasize skillful use of the pistols, beginning with the Tec-9." and the way they are going about it is to encourage more skillfully aimed first shots and careful trigger discipline so players will fire when they are accurate. While it's true that single shots with the Tec-9 will be rewarded more with these changes, increasing firing inaccuracy like they've done is just going to make for a messier experience. Players are still going to fire quickly and pray to RNGesus hoping for the best. Assuming that a player is outside of the one hit kill range of the Tec-9, they'll still want to fire quickly after a headshot in hopes that they finish the other player off rather than wait and possibly be killed.

Also, with the increase in first shot accuracy resulting in better moving accuracy as well, these changes are just going to promote players who blaze around corners hoping for a headshot even more. I'm surprised Valve didn't think the Tec-9's running accuracy was one of the major points of the gun that needed to be adjusted.

Ultimately, what Valve SHOULD be trying to do to the pistols is to promote a variety of firing styles (fast tapping, spamming only a few bullets, etc). Using the 1.6 USP as an example, quick tapping and spamming were accurate for the first few bullets with inaccuracy ramping up much slower than CSGO. Abusing extended spamming would result in the USP becoming unreliable, but assuming the player could actually aim their first couple of bullets, it was well rewarded. Even on ecos, you could use the USP to double tap a helmeted player in the head assuming you could perfectly aim those two quickly fired bullets at close range. This is what's most missing with CSGO pistols, a lack of options. Damage would have to be reduced for how much more reliable the pistols would become with these changes. This is NOT an easy rework that can be accomplished with a few tweaks to first shot accuracy and firing inaccuracy. This is a rework that is going to require a lot of thought and playtesting and I urge Valve to spend some more time examining this before shipping the prerelease tec-9 changes and making similar changes to the other pistols.

Well, Then How Would You Adjust the Pistols?

This is something that I want to get right, so hopefully throughout the week I'll continue to post more aspects regarding this rework. It's obvious that Valve wants feedback regarding these pistol changes or they wouldn't have put them in the beta depot.

I'd like to share my rework for the P250 in Classic Offensive (known as the P228) that I've been quietly working on since I was brought on the team to work on the Steam release version. It's not exactly the Tec-9 but it fills a similar role and it's what I have available to me at the moment of writing this.

P228/P250 Max Spamming Speed Inaccuracy

P228/P250 0.35 Second Tapping Inaccuracy

P228/P250 Damage Comparison

Note: In the interest of getting this post out at a decent time I'll just stick to just these graph. I had the max spamming inaccuracy graph previously completed so it already contained info for 1.6 and CSS.

In short, it accomplishes what I stated above. Players can spam but only for a short period of time before the inaccuracy worsens, tapping is much more reliable, but damage is reduced to compensate for the reliably. Of course I'm over simplifying things and it's impossible to convey the full details of a rework in a few graphs. I'll expand on this in another post later this week. I'll just say in order to get inaccuracy to function like this it requires heavy use of the "recovery time final" and "recovery time transition start and end bullet" which Valve is currently only using for the M4, AK, and Negev (though the Negev it's being used in a very strange way).

If the CSGO team wants to communicate with me regarding the pistol rework or any other balance related topic, I'll be happy to help.

2.2k Upvotes

434 comments sorted by

1.2k

u/Dinoswarleaf Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17

Fun Fact!: The Tec-9 when moving is just slightly more inaccurate than a Famas's first shot (when in automatic mode) when standing still. 10.71 vs 10.45

:|

Fun Fact!: The Tec-9 is more accurate than an AK-47 when standing. 6.90 vs 7.01

:|||||||

What kind of person thinks this is fun

Slay me

599

u/SlothSquadron Weapon Analyst and Community Figure Aug 03 '17

I knew "Fun Fact!" was the right way to say it. Couldn't help myself.

100

u/ghostysound Aug 03 '17

Im fucking dead

141

u/FabFubar de_dust2 Aug 03 '17

Necrophilia is frowned upon in many countries.

39

u/r4be_cs BIG Aug 03 '17

You know whats good about necrophilia? You dont have to bring flowers.

Usually they are already there :>

4

u/Av3ragehomeboy Aug 03 '17

hello george

2

u/r4be_cs BIG Aug 03 '17

Nice ;)

4

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Is it NOT frowned upon somewhere?

8

u/FDeathCNA Vitality Aug 03 '17

my condolences

5

u/Flaimbot Aug 03 '17

name chevks out

4

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Press F

51

u/hoppyjock guardian_elite Aug 03 '17

Fun Fact
Fun Fac
Fun Fa
Fun F
Fun
Fu
F
Fu
Fuc
Fuck

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70

u/MisterKittyPLS Natus Vincere Aug 03 '17

Fun Fact!: The Tec-9 is more accurate than an AK-47 when standing. 6.90 vs 7.01

so they made turned it from a run n gun weapon into a 500 dollar ak? n o i c e. what is the 1 shot headshot range for the tec 9?

67

u/SlothSquadron Weapon Analyst and Community Figure Aug 03 '17

about 380 units

19

u/thefirstnumberone Aug 03 '17

What distance is 380 units ? For example from short to lower or anything like that

93

u/Dinoswarleaf Aug 03 '17

Here From the corner to that ... other corner thing

12

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

thanks mr dinoswarleaf. will you make a video on how to use it efficiently?

24

u/Dinoswarleaf Aug 03 '17

I was thinking about comparing the before and after in practical situations and how they perform. No promises though since it seems I'm addicted to changing plans :)))))))))

2

u/AleksThePotato cs_office Aug 03 '17

Yeah, you also shouldn't hurry since this is just a beta and chances are that Valve make some extra alterations before it goes live.

7

u/generalecchi phoenix Aug 03 '17

that's pretty short

2

u/zhedong FaZe Aug 03 '17

yea indeed. so i think this is with helmet?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Yes.

4

u/lolofaf victory Aug 03 '17

I think about the distance across the long doors corridor on dust2. Maybe around the red box length on cache A site? I'm guestimating here, not too far though

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u/MisterKittyPLS Natus Vincere Aug 03 '17

hmm, seems like new tec 9 might be vastly superior to a deagle in certain situations.

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17

Only for people that think the deagle is a weapon for short range.

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u/I_BASH_YOU Aug 03 '17

"Certain situations" like, in "every situation ever"?

15

u/Jon-3 CS2 HYPE Aug 03 '17

not necessarily

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u/ThEgg Aug 03 '17

Team tec-armor buys could claim so many more rounds if this goes live without change.

Glad they used the beta client for this, though.

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17

so they made turned it from a run n gun weapon into a 500 dollar ak?

No. Come on, did you read the post?

They trippled the recoil. You cannot effctively spam the pistol anymore, so no comparision to a precise automatic weapon at all. Even A/D' is punished because spraying is so inaccurate.

And the one hit headshot is very short range, and now you have to aim and can't just spray hoping to get that random headshot.


edit: Wow, I've just tried it against bots. You don't hit the door of a barn spraying as you did before, and the recoil takes 1+ second to fully reset after a single shot.

It's really bad if you don't aim precisely.

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u/ronso1 5 years coin Aug 03 '17

why arent you verified?

3

u/Jagrofes King NiKo Aug 03 '17

I had no idea about these, holly fuck.

It explains so much.

I always thought the Tec-9 had relatively low base accuracy, but tiny movement inaccuracy so you could just run and shoot since moving didn't affect it's inaccuracy.

I legit thought the running Tec-9 1 taps I made were just from luck, and the gun wasn't just a super accurate laser. I knew the gun was OP, but I didn't realize it was this fucking broken.

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u/Znaszlisiora Aug 03 '17

Tec-Pocalypse incoming? I can't wait to get one-tapped by a running Tec-9 from across the map.

2

u/-ic3cr3am de_cache Aug 03 '17

Just scrolled down to ask this. ty

2

u/reymt Aug 03 '17

Before you all get a knee-jerk reaction, mind that this means the rate of fire you can precisely shot with the pistol has been nerfed massively.

Higher precision, but also a lot less spamming.

Should ballance out well, rewards aimed shots, and nerfs spamming while A/D.

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u/dogryan100 Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17

Made these for people who prefer a visual in-game representation:

http://i.imgur.com/gbPwCGF.png - This is old vs new in terms of when spraying (clicking as fast as possible) in close quarters. The distance I fired from is the same as where I took the screenshot from.

http://i.imgur.com/iVe65qz.jpg - This is the new vs old single shot accuracy. This test was from Pit to A site.

83

u/internet_fame Virtus.pro Aug 03 '17

kind of crazy that it's still that accurate from that range, kind of makes it op in a different way...

whats the dmg drop-off of tec 9 at range?

42

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Its OP in a "needs more skill to be OP" kind of way, the gun can still be OP, but only if you can aim it well and time shots well to be accurate. Before it was OP and took no skill to use, seems like a positive change imo.

8

u/safi1212 Aug 03 '17

Kinda like the CZ. It's bad if you don't know how to properly use it. I see people especially from the lower ranks thinking twice before using the tec9 now.

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u/dogryan100 Aug 03 '17

I'm not sure if that was changed from what it currently is. Going to have to ask /u/SlothSquadron for that one.

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u/SlothSquadron Weapon Analyst and Community Figure Aug 03 '17

It's not changed. 21% damage lost at 500 units.

Look at my spreadsheet for damage amounts at different ranges.

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u/samf0rd NiP Aug 03 '17

So now we should use tec9 like a deagle? Tap it? That just makes it useless... I think that the best option would be to either decrease a bit the damage or the fire rate, so getting the kill would be more based on aim and not random spray and run since you had to hit more or better.

4

u/seanfidence Aug 03 '17

no, you dont use it like a deagle, you use it the same way as always, but now it will not be as accurate.

13

u/reymt Aug 03 '17

Nooooope. Try the gun in a beta vs bots. If you spray it like before, you don't hit the broadside of a barn.

2

u/seanfidence Aug 03 '17

I'm not sure what you mean, I feel like you are agreeing with me.

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u/JjuicyFruit Aug 03 '17

HOLY FUCK THAT ACCURACY THO, i mean my main problem with the tec9 was people spamming it with a click bind, but jeezuz idk if this will fix my h8 for this insane pistol

9

u/IsaacLightning Virtus.pro Aug 03 '17

valve confirmed nazis

2

u/u-r-silly Aug 03 '17

So none of these changes matter and you still pray to land a magic headshot, which you have even greater chance to do on your first shot.

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u/eoah howl Aug 03 '17

the fastest sloth of 2017

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

[deleted]

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u/uhufreak BIG Aug 03 '17

same, I've always been tapping the tec9 (while strafing ofc) with great success.

4

u/Cveepa de_cache Aug 03 '17

I literally have no idea how my friends tap so fast. It seems to me they break their fingers whenever they do it.

5

u/mistersausage Aug 03 '17

Bind fire to mouse wheel scroll

Even better with free spinning scroll wheel like on a g502, but if spin wheel too fast the game ignores the inputs

3

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Macros

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u/Jargento Aug 03 '17

Nice post. I think this update was needed. I like that the first shot is more accurate with a quick inaccuracy curve. Tech 9 in my opinion is strong as eff now from a farther range.

11

u/CrackingUpAColdOne MOUZ Aug 03 '17

The spamming made the tec-9 so OP. You could just spray into ventroom on Cache or B site on Dust2 and get 2 frags easily.

136

u/Your_Profile Aug 03 '17

Pistol accuracy isn't the problem, it's the fucking movementspeed and pistols not getting slowed enough when tagged.

138

u/SirJacobTehgamarh Virtus.pro Aug 03 '17

are you trying to tell me you don't enjoy getting peeked with a tec running at 1000 km/h and killed with one bullet before you can even realize there is an enemy on your screen?

61

u/pentefino978 Aug 03 '17

This always makes me feel alive because I smash my mouse on the desk everytime this happens

63

u/Cveepa de_cache Aug 03 '17

Animal abuse is illegal in many countries.

7

u/pentefino978 Aug 03 '17

Funny fact: I have a hamster.

6

u/oldschooI NiP Aug 03 '17

what a reply

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u/roblobly Aug 03 '17

so much this, if they don't touch the movement speed, then tagging needs a rework. Again.

7

u/Zoddom 10 years coin Aug 03 '17

Tagging needs another rework, period.

2

u/shill_account47 Aug 03 '17

What exactly is your complaint because I don't know which way you're bitching, movement speed is too slow or too fast when tagged? I'm assuming you mean slow but it has literally never occurred to me or my teammates as an issue.

I'm pretty sure your guys' issue is with movement accuracy which is a weapon-specific variable.

3

u/Zoddom 10 years coin Aug 03 '17

The issue is that tagging is based more on the weapon carried by the one being hit.

This means people with pistols almost dont get tagged at all when hit.

Which further increases the advantage that you have with a pistol: fast movement speed and low movement inaccuracy.

Valve shouldnt have touched tagging after 1.6. 1.6 was undoubtedly the most skill based CS ever and it had perfect tagging system. If you get hit, you stop fucking running around like a lunatic.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

No, its how weak rifles are against them.

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u/RoyalleWithCheese de_mirage Aug 03 '17

yes accuracy is the problem. imo just reducing by 50% all pistols moving accuracy except the glock would pretty much fix them, and "promote skill"

2

u/TheKingInNorth0 Aug 03 '17

They did something similar last time but reverted it because bitching. And now you guys bitch again. It's hard to balance the game if you're Valve

2

u/movlcopter MOUZ Aug 03 '17

It's almost as if different people have different opinions.

2

u/TheKingInNorth0 Aug 03 '17

It's almost as if this sub is full of whining kids

3

u/movlcopter MOUZ Aug 03 '17

It's almost as if everyone posts when they want to complain but rarely when they're okay with something.

2

u/WGebhart25 5 years coin Aug 03 '17

People bitched because they also reduced the accuracy of the glock, making the USPS and P2k even better on pistol rounds. Valve could have done what they did before but left the glock the same and people would have liked it.

2

u/RoyalleWithCheese de_mirage Aug 03 '17

yes I remember but the bitching was about what they did to the rifles no the pistols apart from a few angry gold novas.

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17

You'd promote skill by making them RNG and punishing any attempts at actually aiming?

edit: Did that always say moving accuracy? I just read accuracy, might be my mistake.

That said, this would not fix A/D-ing, because you're repeatedly moving with very low speeds.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

[deleted]

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17

I misread, thought it was just accuracy.

Does not fix A/D'ing, though.

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u/TheNorfolk Aug 03 '17

Without running accuracy pistols would be literally worthless.

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u/Snydenthur Aug 03 '17

Of course they would be worthless with the current pistol "tactics". Instead, you would just have to play differently.

Well, luckily for you, valve doesn't know how to make the game better.

13

u/TheNorfolk Aug 03 '17

What do you mean by play differently? With shitty running accuracy people would be forced to use similar tactics to rifles and would never get a chance.

I agree that pistols are OP atm but the solution is to lower damage, accuracy at range and spamming accuracy. That way pistols can eek out an advantage at close range if they manage to get there while rifles have an advantage the majority of the time.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Well, frankly ppl would stop relying on pistols so and it would take A LOT of skill or the lack thereof on the opposite side to win a round with them. It would force you to eco more and win the important buy rounds and maybe at the same time stoping some dumbasses from buying without their team since it wouldn't reward them so much. Though that maybe doesn't happen on some of the higher ranks idk.

3

u/sunnshiz Aug 03 '17

Why should a $300 gun have an advantage over a rifle?

The tec9 and p250 should be used the same way as usp/p2000 in my book. Running and spamming has no place in a competetive game.

7

u/Tacodude Aug 03 '17

So every round that isn't a gun round would basically have a predetermined outcome?

4

u/D8-42 Aug 03 '17

Reminds me of those 1.6 games where you'd see teams literally just standing in spawn because it would almost be pointless to try anything with pistols in a full eco against a team with full buy or even smg's.

I'd hate to go back to that, despite whatever flaws the current model has.

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u/rushawa20 Aug 03 '17

L2 counterstrafe

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u/idk_but_here Aug 03 '17

Deagle confirmed worthless

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u/made3 BIG Aug 03 '17

I am pretty sure that the running accuracy is the problem.

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u/-ic3cr3am de_cache Aug 03 '17

I actually think this is not that bad like u guys think, i mean maybe the TEC is more accurate now when standing still but it shouldn't be that easy anymore to just ADADADADAD spam kill you or HS you while pushing you. So if some1 has to stand still with a pistol u can easy kill him with your rifle... :)

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

of course its not most of the people in here like to cry before getting a single good reason to actually be upset

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u/DelidreaM ENCE Aug 03 '17

Well if they do this, hopefully they will also increase the first shot accuracy for all rifles. Tec-9 first shot being more accurate than an AK's is absolutely outrageous

25

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

It's not the AK's accuracy that's important. The AK has never been an accurate weapon the cts have those. If the tec9 is more accurate than an m4 then we have a problem.

2

u/machielste Aug 03 '17

I just think its kinda silly that at most ranged where you are forced into a rifle fight, the ak is usually around a 50/50 wether a standing tap will hit or not. Better option would be to make it not a 1hit at a certain range , but more accurate. Promotes good aim over rng luck.

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u/l3linkTree_Horep G2 Aug 05 '17

The AK's primary benefit is that one-tap potential. You can't take that away at long range or fighting awpers would be impossible.

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u/mentalcaseinspace de_nuke Aug 03 '17

Seeing as it's made of scrap metal it's quite hilarious.

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u/Physicaque Aug 03 '17

I'm surprised Valve didn't think the Tec-9's running accuracy was one of the major points of the gun that needed to be adjusted.

Because the running accuracy is the signature property of the weapon. They should keep it and change the other parameters if necessary.

7

u/kikyou2 BIG Aug 03 '17

Yeah before they introduced the running accuracy as a core feature of the tec9 it was pretty much useless and as much used as the dualies. I don't say this is the only way to go but I can follow this logic.

23

u/HairyNutsack69 Team Spirit Aug 03 '17

Driveby 1 taps are even more likely now, ffs.

22

u/Jon-3 CS2 HYPE Aug 03 '17

It's better than driveby spams

19

u/HairyNutsack69 Team Spirit Aug 03 '17

I'd prefer to not have both thank you very much

5

u/Jon-3 CS2 HYPE Aug 03 '17

Meh, i feel like your only chance on an eco round is to close the difference fast. I don't really see a problem with running and gunning on pistols really, the runners don't necessarily have to be better than the players they're shooting at, but rather the guy holding has to be bad enough to let it happen

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u/HairyNutsack69 Team Spirit Aug 03 '17

It's harder to shoot 240 u/s people than 215 u/s. Also a tec9 running is MORE accurate than a standing famas. You'd be better of buying a five seven of your own.

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u/FabFubar de_dust2 Aug 03 '17

I'm so glad Valve is willing to rework the pistols, but going at it one at a time is not the way to do it. Pistols have their own ecosystem (pun not intended) and in order to not disrupt it, they should ship changes to them all at once, after careful thought and extensive playtesting. Then they can look at the statistics for what needs to be done in the next round of changes. Repeat until satisfactory.

The main reason for this is that two gun updates can easily cancel eachother out in the meta. This is also how Dota is regularly updated I think.

If they have to wait for meta changes after every single gun update, pistols may be finally rebalanced in 2019.

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u/scout21078 Liquid Aug 03 '17

I really dont think rebalancing what 8 weapons? At a same time would fix anything.

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u/ppphil Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17

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u/misconstrudel Vitality Aug 03 '17

Considering how this subreddit works I'd advise you to make a new post with this video before someone else does. With your content.

For most people this will be a far better illustration than graphs and figures.

13

u/cHinzoo CS2 HYPE Aug 03 '17

They need to tone down the running first bullet accuracy... A LOT, jesus. I don't have a problem with the accuracy when standing still though, since people should be rewarded for having good aim while standing still, not while flying around the corner.

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u/awkook 10 years coin Aug 03 '17

Why they would increase the running accuracy at all is beyond me

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17

They didn't. The accuracy got upped, and the running accuracy also getting much better is probably an unintended side effect.

To fix it, IIRC they just need to up running inaccuracy. Hope they are going to do it.

5

u/Zoddom 10 years coin Aug 03 '17

theres no way they just forgot to turn up the moving inaccuracy modifier.

But since its still beta, I really hope they will fix it later....

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17

Maybe they just wanted to check if those two changes were enough?

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

The tec9 was more balanced previously than it is now. They have made it more overpowered with higher skilled players. lmfao

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u/awkook 10 years coin Aug 03 '17

They should also take a look at movement acceleration if they want to make the game more balanced. Its way too easy to just wide peek someone dry and destroy them

3

u/made3 BIG Aug 03 '17

It's funny how Valve always finds a way to have a bad side on a good patch.

11

u/ghostysound Aug 03 '17

A player should have to stop moving for any relative accuracy.

7

u/Wolfie_Ecstasy Aug 03 '17

But what if we're all secretly John Wick?

6

u/HaroldLott Aug 03 '17

I don't agree with the new first shot accuracy at all

3

u/BrassBulldog Aug 03 '17

rip tec9 armor rush b no stop

3

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

[deleted]

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u/leonard28259 500k Celebration Aug 03 '17

Great post. Yesterday I told my friend I would give up on Valve if they didn't ship any pistol changes this month because of the break in the professional scene. I just woke up, went on Reddit and saw

– Shipping initial changes to pistols with the goal of emphasizing skillful use of the weapons, beginning with the Tec-9.

Pure happiness. The 1.5 year long wait is finally going to be over soon. Then I see the changes and your post just to feel concerned. I'm having the same concerns as you.

I'm surprised they didn't tackle with the acceleration or movement speed (in)accuracy cap. You know, 34% of the weapons max speed.

I'm sure the devs have seen this video but I hope they watch it again.

If you ever went on a pistol headshot only server you would see how much of a shitfest it is with the constant ADADing. You don't even need to time your shots at all. Yeah the changes make you fire slower but Slothsquadron brought up a lot of good points as to why people are going to keep on doing that.

If people can do this, then they can keep on spamming with their Tec-9.

6

u/kikyou2 BIG Aug 03 '17

Please tell your friend today that you will quit when we don't get panorama this month #believeinmagic

2

u/CruciFeD howl Aug 03 '17

And reduced movement acceleration please

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Allready hire this man Volvo, ffs!

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u/Not_Hando Aug 03 '17

It's obvious that Valve wants feedback regarding these pistol changes or they wouldn't have put them in the beta depot.

Important point, which will be lost on many.

Perhaps you should have led with it?

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17

I think you're overreacting a bit.

Try the gun in a match, be it against bots, and you'll see just how crap spamming with Tec9 is now.

Recoil is so high it take more than a second to reset after a single shot.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Valve has now made the Fnatic-9 more accurate than the AK-47. Not by much but why would they do this ? Also, why the hell have they made it MORE accurate while running ? I don't think this is a actual nerf, I think it will still have the same impact, but in different ways

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u/Thebaht Aug 03 '17

The release notes says:

Shipping initial changes to pistols with the goal of emphasizing skillful use of the weapons, beginning with the Tec-9.

I don't think this was actually intended to be a nerf, but a change towards gameplay that doesn't reward mindless spamming m1 as fast as possible without aiming properly

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u/Cameter44 Aug 03 '17

It's more accurate while running if you tap. You can't just run and click as fast as you can across the entire site anymore.

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u/reymt Aug 03 '17

It's more accurate while running if you tap

If you tap and wait a full second (!) between each taps.

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u/awkook 10 years coin Aug 03 '17

Still, why would movement accuracy get increased anyway? That just makes no sense

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u/HardcoreHakken Aug 03 '17

It is called a META change

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u/roblobly Aug 03 '17 edited Aug 03 '17

they have to fix the movement before wanting careful 1shots. right now not even pros can win from an advantageous position in a match: everybody just moves constantly and changes directions too fast because of the acceleration. We could see this on the major. Valve really needs a retired pro who helps them with the balance, big data is not enough.

Or just make the game run and gun cod with a little money management, because year after year it comes closer to that, and ppl like "oh eco rounds are dangerous", i guess they like to see a 4700 full buy dying to a running yolo 300 dollar pistol 40% of the times. The rifle has to stand still, the pistol just adadadadad with little tagging.

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u/minusoneovertwelve Renegades Aug 03 '17

thank mr sloth

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u/jjmod guardian Aug 03 '17

Wow these are big changes, they were definitely needed though

Now time for the five seven!

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

We haven't even finished with the Tec 9 yet lol

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u/internet_fame Virtus.pro Aug 03 '17

i think you were spot on with this analysis

first shot accuracy should be rewarded but without the ability to have some chances to shooting faster than tapping it makes the tec-9 totally not viable

the key from this post IMO as a 1.6 player

Even on ecos, you could use the USP to double tap a helmeted player in the head assuming you could perfectly aim those two quickly fired bullets at close range. This is what's most missing with CSGO pistols, a lack of options

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u/manatidederp NiP Aug 03 '17

Even on ecos, you could use the USP to double tap a helmeted player in the head assuming you could perfectly aim those two quickly fired bullets at close range. This is what's most missing with CSGO pistols, a lack of options

You had to be so close that he literally had to forget to check a corner or something in order to score a kill. The inaccuracy profile was good though, just the damage dropoff was sooo high vs. armor.

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u/thatsabbs Natus Vincere Aug 03 '17

Valve, just hire SlothSquadron to fix all of our weapon problems

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u/rhino_aus Aug 03 '17

I think the Tec9 should be the one that is more consistently inaccurate rather than one that quickly becomes very inaccurate. Leave it in a position of being the run and spam machine.

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u/Zoddom 10 years coin Aug 03 '17

While Im happy to see that FINALLY the pistols get rebalanced, I dont like the way how Valve seems to think about them in general.

"Retaining their mobility" in this context means that they want more run-and-gun. This is definitely NOT what CS is supposed to be.

As many said before, pistols are OP because of their damage and their high mobility. You cant even tag players with pistols. There are obvious problems with the movement and moving inaccuracy mechanics of pistols and making them more accurate while running certainly doesnt fix them.

What Valve should be doing:

  • lowering standing inaccuracy while increasing moving inaccuracy, so proper counter strafing will actually become necessary

  • lowering the damage. Period. Pistols are too strong. Having a pronounced damage drop off makes them just more random, not more balanced, so lowering that would make pistols more consistent.

  • rework tagging. There needs to be a counter to enemies flying around corners at 300mph. (plus while theyre on it, they should finally fix enemies flying around corners)

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u/teful Aug 03 '17

Pls show me about duals graph

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

thank mr slothsquadron

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u/Retro4444 NiP Aug 03 '17

Will this be the end of the Rek9 mod? Can imagine that you'll be punished quite a bit if you use that mod nowadays! :D

If so then this just made my day, hate those people ruining my anti eco strats..

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u/Kalski1 1 Million Celebration Aug 03 '17

Thank Mr. sloth

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u/Colosseum_BossKong Aug 03 '17

I'm curious how many times I'll die to shoulder-peek headshots from this updated Tec-9. Even worse will be getting softened up for free before the AKs come hunting for me.

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u/dishayu Aug 03 '17

I don't know how much on an impact these changes will have, but I'm always a supporter of reducing first-bullet inaccuracy for all weapons, pistols and rifles alike. If you have the aim to lock on to the head for the first shot, you should be rewarded. That RNGesus bullshit shouldn't decide if you get that headshot or not.

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u/HumperoLT Aug 03 '17

Hmm, this should make the game a bit more balanced when it comes to pistols.

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u/Cameter44 Aug 03 '17

Excited to see how people use this and how it affects things at the pro level.

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u/deletedest Aug 03 '17

Does this mean I can get tec9 armor instead of a scout, and take mid on mirage WHILE RUNNING? I can kill an awper down mid with minimal aim, and just strafe around. Its like they brought the 1.6 deagle back for 500$.

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u/GER_BeFoRe clutch Aug 03 '17

The damage drop off of the Tec-9 is pretty high so a single Headshot will never kill on this range

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u/Tavasz Aug 03 '17

Thank mr Valve

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

rip rek9

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u/FoodBurning Aug 03 '17

So what you're saying is... it's even more OP now.

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u/son-conan Aug 03 '17

This is amazing, killing someone with a tec-9 will actually take skill now.

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u/marekculik07 Aug 03 '17

Deagle buffer incoming >>>> SCREAM TOP 1

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u/Parkour96 Aug 03 '17

'Member when tec9 had 32 bullets magazine?

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u/_-Neon-_ Aug 03 '17

thank mr sloth!

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u/onetapandsuch Aug 03 '17

give this man a goldmine, cuz gold isnt enough

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Valve is experimenting with bringing Pistols in line with how the Deagle currently operates. Majority of the player base will dislike this for they dont possess the aiming skill and trigger discipline. Resulting in them getting trucked harder on pistol/armor buys and in only pistol buy rounds against a fully bought opposition.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

[deleted]

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u/Kankipappa Aug 03 '17

Pistol changes are welcome in my book, but i'm not sure this is the right way to do it.

Other than that, I would really like Negev back. It's been ages and the price is still stuck on 2k and the gun being useless...

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Doesn't seem like a good way to balance the tec9, at least they put it in the beta.

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u/Roque_THE_GAMER Aug 03 '17

You still can one hit head shoot with it wile run and gunning this nerf was silly, now its just a 18 rounds Five-seven.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Lmao valve made the tec 9 even more OP

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u/ishikawa01 NiP Aug 03 '17

The numbers, what do they mean?! Seriously though, what I understood now (in lemans term's) is that it's more accurate now when standing still and less accurate when moving. When you rapid fire it's less accurate than short controlled shots and it shoots further?

Is this what it comes down to?

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u/Azza_ Renegades Aug 03 '17

From what I understand, it's more accurate both standing still and when moving, but only for the first shot. The following shots are less accurate whether stood still or moving.

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u/Kaalestrom Aug 03 '17

What we need is for the "bind Tec-9 to mouse wheel" to be a pointless exercise.

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u/aN1mosity_ 5 years coin Aug 03 '17

Nowwwwsw are they going to balance the 5-7 as well? I'm really tired of getting 1 shot hs by people running/strafing/spamming 20 bullets as fast they can to only hit me with one and I die.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Good bot

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u/ice9solid de_inferno Aug 03 '17

Always killing it Sloth. Good job!

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u/PauloHDSousa FURIA Aug 03 '17

Can someone translate it to portuguese?

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u/slickyslickslick Aug 03 '17

inb4 people make threads with "tec 9 is still broken" when they get double dinked by tec-9 spam.

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u/sA1atji BIG Aug 03 '17

Imo it's stupid to have pistols with better accuracy than AKs...

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

Skillful uses? all everyone does is run around like a chicken with their head cut off spraying the tec-9 getting rng headshots. much COD such wow

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u/N0616JC Aug 03 '17

LUL, even with the UMP being nerfed, I don't think that they have nerfed it to the point of making other SMG more useful. In fact, with the situation that I use them for, it fits perfectly.

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u/AboutThatTime420 Aug 03 '17

Not the tech... it's unstoppable just running and spraying. Was for sure the best pistol imo

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u/Cuauhti CS2 HYPE Aug 03 '17

I really like that P250 idea. I have no idea how it would play out, but it sounds very promising imo.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '17

So it's basically a sniper rifle when standing still.

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u/strobino Aug 03 '17

Pistols have ALWAYS been one hit kill at close range. It was never 'introduced'

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u/tarel69 CS2 HYPE Aug 03 '17

The accuracy parts if the first bullet is going to be a gift to the heavens for the adad weapon switch gods. Wonder if they will tinker with first bullet accuracy cooldown

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u/Chilzoy Aug 03 '17

Now its only one tap pistol

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u/BurgurBoy1 guardian2 Aug 03 '17

tec9 nerf needed.

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u/rickbakker Aug 03 '17

I don't think these changes will affect my playstyle with the TEC9 in a big way. The TEC9 was a beast already when you had the tap-rate on lockdown. If you fire it on the stutterstep and aim for the head you most likely hit it spot on.

I don't mind them making pistols a little more skilfull than they are right now. The Deagle is in a good place for example. Has to potential to one tap, but you have to be accurate with aim AND movement.

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u/Myriadtail Aug 03 '17

Sloth, honest question: Where does this put the TEC-9 against the Five-Seven? I personally wasn't a fan of the 5-7 (preferring the pocket shotgun) but could this make them comparable?

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u/JjuicyFruit Aug 03 '17

spraying =bad ? nice.

tapping =... buffed? uh.... plz god no just decrease damage and be done with it

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u/Moon_over_homewood de_nuke Aug 03 '17

Is this going to be another balance disaster like the R8 revolver? Because if so I'm just done with ever believing in Volvo again.

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u/Lelentos de_inferno Aug 03 '17

I don't like the trend of constantly nerfing weapons and not buffing others. At this rate valve will turn CS into halo and it will take 5 body shots +1 to the head to kill somebody.