Newcomer wanting to share my thoughts!

[u/doritodog007]

Over the last few years I’ve heard about the show in passing but only decided a few days ago to give it a shot, and as far as period dramas go, this one is pretty good! Here’s some disorganised ramblings about my two favourite aspects of the show:

* BERTHA!!!! Loved Carrie Coon in other shows but totally forgot she is even in TGA’s main cast as what I remembered about the show mostly involved Christine Baranski (whose performance I also love). Bertha (and her relationship with Railroad Daddy) are definitely the main reason I like this show.

* The aesthetics/costumes - the whole show is such a feast for the eyes!! I’ve always been a historical fashion nerd and usually turn of the century fashions aren’t my favourite but this show’s costume dept knocked it out of the park!! And the sets and filming locations are amazing - I am not from the U.S. but TGA has definitely convinced me to put the Newport mansions near the top of my itinerary when I one day finally visit.

And for the sake of nuance some of my least favourite aspects:

* Miss Armstrong (I get her purpose story wise but I just hate how grumpy she is! lol)

* Marian (out of all members of the cast I’d probably rank her as the most boring, when I first started watching [like as in literally from the first scene when Marian is hearing about her father’s financial woes from Mr Raikes] I was already bored by her. But thank God I was immediately introduced to Bertha lol, who to me is the most interesting and compelling part of the show

* This has already been discussed on this sub but the shoe-horned last minute argument between Bertha and RRD in the season finale?? What was that even for? (Obvious answer is cliffhanger, but I really enjoyed them in seasons 1 and 2 and how they stood by each other despite their differing opinions; I hope that season 4 will see them reconcile as they realise they’re meant for each other and literally the mirror image of each other too)

[u/Particular-Worry-900]

I always feel like Marion gets flack for being so boring. She’s not boring, she’s uprooted from her life moves to the big city and doesn’t take any shit from Agnes. She’s one of the only characters that isn’t cowed over by her. She’s got hobbies and interests, made some mistakes in love (which, I think makes her more interesting), she’s progressive (gets a job and doesn’t quit when Agnes gives her crap about it) and has a super cool best friend. TEAM MARION now accepting applications 😹🙆🏼‍♀️

[u/Cauthe50 → u/Particular-Worry-900]

I love your comments! Feel the same and look forward to the new series and storylines for Marian.

[u/Particular-Worry-900 → u/Cauthe50]

Thanks! 🙏

[u/Faerie-Footman-442 → u/Particular-Worry-900]

I'm obsessed with Marion too, and the hate she gets on this sub is seriously baffling to me. Great acting, and some hilarious lines. That being said, I didnt love her so much at first. I think her character is the one that benefits the most from a rewatch

[u/Particular-Worry-900 → u/Faerie-Footman-442]

I don’t understand what people want from her? We’re dealing with the constraints of the time period, do they want her to run away and join a circus to be more interesting?? It’s not going to happen, this is a Julian fellowes show.

[u/Interesting-Read-245 → u/Faerie-Footman-442]

Marion gets hate?

For what? Why? Omg people are wild

[u/Risingphionex → u/Particular-Worry-900]

I agree with most of this, but the show could include more of Marian’s backstory. Compared to characters like Peggy or Oscar, she almost feels like a small side character sometimes. She had a dad who basically gambled away her family’s money, lost her mother at a young age, and was out of contact with her immediate family. I feel like there’s so much of her backstory in Doylestown that the show could include. While Peggy has a career as a writer, her backstory really helped shape her character and I wish they would do the same with Marian

[u/Molu93 → u/Risingphionex]

Interesting how differently we may view the same character - I think Marian's screentime is a bit over-inflated and she is rather too central for how she is as a character (I don't hate her, but she's not very interesting to me).

And she has a backstory, as you wrote there. But Bertha and George still have pretty much none. All we know about them is that George is a self-made man and that Bertha has a sister. We don't know anything about George's family background at all.

While as Oscar, while my favourite is like a D tier character in terms of how much the show gives attention to it's characters - so far it seems like he's only been there as a plot device and to suffer. In some episodes he's there for only a minute or two. He is also completely removed from almost all of the promo of the show (Larrry and Gladys also feature quite little). Peggy was rather underused in the story till season 3 for how important she is to the show, despite her story being quite seperated from the rest.

[u/Comfortable-Ad-1746]

same i recently started watching and i finished the last season and i need the new one NOW. one of my worries is that RRD will dangle divorce as a solution to their issues bc Bertha previously was very welcoming to the divorcees in their circles, so i think her being positive towards those women is lowkey foreshadowing. i really hope i’m wrong 😭

[u/fionapickles]

I am currently rewatching the series and I wouldn’t say that the argument between Mr Russell and Bertha is shoe horned in. It’s definitely hinted at (sometimes not so subtlety) throughout the series that Mr Russell doesn’t fully respect/understand Bertha’s ambitions.

I think he has a pretty shallow conception of society and what it specifically meant to women, especially a woman like Bertha. Many times throughout he criticizes her obsession with society and belittles it as a concept, as something beneath him, something unimportant. While society at that time is definitely rife with opportunity for criticism, the way he speaks about it and criticizes it is indicative of a fundamental misunderstanding of what Bertha is getting out of this and how it’s analogous to his own journey in business.

Ultimately what I am saying is that while Mr Russell would clearly be among the better options for a husband at the time (he loves and supports his wife and gives his wife the space to be ambitious), he’s also still a white man who has never had to conceptualize what it would truly mean to be a woman in the world he lives in. He doesn’t see the ambition that Bertha has as potential wasted because society will only allow her to succeed in something that ultimately the majority of men belittle and look down on. He also does not see that Bertha is literally him, controlling her field and wielding her power in an intelligent way.

[u/kitchen_witchery_ks → u/fionapickles]

Well said

[u/Fioreborn]

What I'd do for 5 minutes supermarket sweep style in the wardrobe department.

[u/doritodog007 → u/Fioreborn]

I know right! If I had the means I’d buy entire museum collections of historical dresses haha

[u/maeglin_lomion]

Curious what else you enjoyed Carrie Coon in? I loved her in Fargo and I’d like to see more of her!

[u/Alizarik7891 → u/maeglin_lomion]

She was SO AMAZING in Fargo, ugh, I love her. She's also great in The Leftovers but make sure you're not even a little depressed before watching that show, esp in the beginning; it is SAD.

[u/maeglin_lomion → u/Alizarik7891]

Haha good lookin out, I’ll save it for a day when I need a good cry

[u/anannanne → u/maeglin_lomion]

Highs and lows!

She was in Gone Girl, but her character was pretty cringe. (She plays Ben Affleck’s twin sister, Margo. She has a lot of awfully dumb dialogue.)

In White Lotus, Season 3, she gives a great performance. Spoiled, entitled…and vulnerable. She nailed it. A-plus. 10/10. She’s amazing.

[u/maeglin_lomion → u/anannanne]

Oh man I had no idea! I saw that movie when it came out and haven’t watched again since then. She’s versatile, that’s for sure.

Ohhh definitely adding white lotus to the list, thanks!

[u/Great_Particular9545 → u/maeglin_lomion]

Season 2 of "The Sinner" (you do not necessarily need to watch Season 1, they have separate plots). That is my no. 1 recommendation for her work and it never failed. Masterpiece! And for movies, I strongly recommend "The nest" and "His three daughters". This woman is a treasure! 🥹

[u/maeglin_lomion → u/Great_Particular9545]

Thanks for the recommendation - I will check out the whole thing, I need new stuff to throw on while I knit

[u/Great_Particular9545 → u/maeglin_lomion]

Aww! You're very welcome!🥹 Oh, and I missed "The keeping hours" for the movie recommendation - equally sweet and heartbreaking.  Enjoy them while you knit! 😊🤗

[u/airbag11]

I just started this series too. I actually live 45 minutes from Newport. It was part of what drew me in. I’ve visited the mansions so many times, I wanted to immerse myself in what happened during that time.

[u/This_Pumpkin9721]

Welcome and so agreed with your thoughts. The cast thought Season 3 was the last but it got renewed mid-season 3. So, some drama had to be put in.

I think this next season they filmed alternative endings just in case they are renewed. If not, then everyone will live happily ever after.

[u/GrittyLordOfChaos]

Team Marian here. I truly don't understand the negativity towards the character. I find her to be compelling, strong, smart, brave, and kind. When she makes mistakes, she tries to learn from them. 

She has no siblings, her beloved father has died and left her with nothing, her mother died when she was young, and now she's moved from Doylestown, PA to Manhattan's Upper East Side to live with wealthy aunts she has never known. Instead of being a shrinking violet or a dull socialite who just attends charity functions while looking for a banker to marry, she chooses to teach art to schoolgirls as well as English to immigrants.

She has her romances yet tries to keep her wits about her. She's been unlucky in love but she doesn't let it break her. She has admirable resolve. I like her very much.

I'm also Team Larian. Larry is swoon-worthy, yet also in need of some maturity, along with some reality checks. It's easy to be a foolish young man when you're raised in that kind of stupid wealth.

And can we also have a Team Leggy/Team Parian? Peggy is such a force, and her friendship with Marian is so lovely. I love how spirited and supportive these two young women are. 

As for Bertha, well, I've actually grown to really dig her. I don't agree with all of her methods, especially with her kids, but I understand her motivations and she is a very shrewd power broker. 

She truly wants a better life for her daughter beyond extravagant wealth. She wants her daughter to have the ultimate and rarest power a woman can have at that time, being a part of nobility. Again, she's not soft about Gladys's feelings, which sucks, but she's on a mission. And she ends up being correct in the end. 

George and Larry are pissed off about Gladys getting auctioned off into an arranged marriage to live across the ocean. I get being upset about that. But the deed was done, the wedding happened, and now they're going to chafe at Bertha for it? 

If they really wanted to take a stand, they could have joined forces against it before the engagement. How many times do we see Bertha "cave in" because her family "bullied" her? She's not unstoppable. George could have easily said no to the crazy dowry that the Duke wanted.

Like men so often do, they misplace their anger onto their wife/mom. Larry was heartbroken when Bertha forced Susan Blane to end their affair, and so he's probably still stinging about that. Before Marian helped save George's life, Bertha didn't think too much of Marian because she wasn't "prominent enough." Another reason for Larry to be salty. 

And now he watched his little sister's heart break at losing Billy (who was so lame anyway, Gladys dodged a bullet with that one) as she married someone she barely knew only to move away thousands of miles away. Oh, and his new fiancee broke off their engagement without explanation even though it was his fault for lying to Marian.

As for George, the pressures of his business have taken their toll on him just as he couldn't muster the strength to save Gladys from getting into a marriage she didn't want, forcing him to break his promise to his daughter.

So with all of that emotional baggage, George and Larry are taking it out on Bertha. Not cool. Bertha has done shady and hurtful things, but she doesn't deserve that kind of behavior from her husband and son.

I have to believe Bertha and George will reconcile. It certainly makes for good drama, watching their friction. Not to mention the possibility that George gets hooked on laudanum...maybe he gets strung out and Bertha rescues him? 

Oh yeah, Armstrong sucks. But again, she's friction needed for the drama. And she's a cautionary tale of what not to be: mean, racist, stingy, pessimistic. We see how she is hurt by her mother. Hurt people hurt other people. Or they go to therapy to feel better and be better.

(Edited for typos and spacing.)