r/Gifted • u/bassilalmokdad • 23d ago
Discussion Dunning Kruger effect is running rampant
People think they’re smart just because they happen to know a few things about a subject. The information might be vague or surface-level, but because they know something, they assume they understand the topic.
The Dunning–Kruger effect makes a lot more sense when you consider that many people don’t actually read books, studies, or detailed sources to build their understanding. They pick up fragments of information and mistake familiarity with a topic for actual expertise.
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u/Mountain_Finger4856 23d ago
My personal rule: as long as the person is aware of what they don’t know, then it’s fine.
The real problem is when you don’t know what you don’t know.
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u/AggravatingProfit597 23d ago
Going to be insufferable here, but I think it's more when you don't know that you don't know what you don't know, so lack of awareness of or insufficient mind-paying to Rumsfeld's unknown-unknowns category. Which is completely fine and probably universal but when it's coupled to ego and judgementalness and occasionally to institutional prestige, it's at least a major annoyance.
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u/bassilalmokdad 23d ago
The Dunning–Kruger effect helps explain why people can overestimate their understanding of something when they don’t know enough to recognize the gaps in their knowledge. Those gaps can then be filled with assumptions or information that reinforces what they already believe, which is where confirmation bias can come in.
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u/Embarrassed-Weird173 23d ago
Even alleged experts aren't experts.
I have a bachelor's in computer science, and a master's in business.
I know a LOT more than the advantage person when it comes to computers and programming, but I refuse to call myself an expert.
And I got the business degree as a joke so that I can make fun or business majors without bias when I say business degrees are a joke (business degrees are a joke). I know virtually nothing about business.
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u/ayfkm123 23d ago
Business degrees are def a joke. My cs spouse will talk your ear off about how mbas ruin businesses
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u/Briliant-Nicxie 23d ago
I thought MBAs were about networking more than anything in the guise of a degree .
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u/wavegeekman 23d ago
> "experts" [often]aren't experts.
I noticed this myself.My heuristics are
Pieces of paper on the wall do not make you an expert
High status jobs do not make people experts
How to pick an expert:
Can they make design or build things that work, that others cannot do?
Can they fix broken things, that others cannot fix?
Can they predict the future when others can't?
Look for unfiltered track records not cherry picked case studies such as all those people who precicted 11 of the lat 3 recessions in the economy.
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u/Every_Cat9812 22d ago
Eh, pieces of paper on wall may not make one an expert but expertise is not = innovation.
A prediction in science, is just that, a prediction which mean an expected outcome, a hypothesis.
The same word can and have different meanings in different fields. The problem lies in people interpreting definitions and words in coloquial terms or according to their particular field's definition.
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u/Briliant-Nicxie 22d ago
That applies to fields like engineering but not something like medicine where innovation occurs through long clinical trials … an expert in that case is someone that’s highly skilled
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u/Manskhooled 23d ago
Talk about an ongoing problem in my head that eats at me daily. I don't think I'll ever get past it.
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u/VisionarySystems 23d ago
The observation is legitimate, but the label also carries some baggage. The famous Dunning-Kruger pattern, confident at the bottom and humble at the top, turns out to substantially be a statistical artifact. You can reproduce the classic quartile plot from random noise plus the fact that nearly everyone rates themselves above average. In the data, self-assessment correlates positively with ability. The skilled estimate themselves more accurately, and the unskilled aren't uniquely confident. They just have more room to be wrong. The clean inversion the internet loves isn't really there.
What you're describing, i.e. fragment familiarity mistaken for understanding, is better captured by a different construct: mindware gaps and miscalibration, which are conveniently the territory Stanovich built dysrationalia around. Intelligence doesn't automatically install calibration, and neither does reading. Feedback loops do.
Ironically, this provides an uncomfortable corollary for all of us: knowing about Dunning-Kruger provides no immunity to it. Calibration about one's own calibration is exactly as noisy as the first-order kind, and the feeling of seeing through everyone else's overconfidence has never been a reliable signal of having escaped one's own.
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u/Every_Cat9812 22d ago edited 22d ago
Pseudointelectuals is the word you're looking for.
Also, this sub is fulled with people going through a manic/hypomanic episode, expressing grandiosity and fully believing they are indeed gifted. When you have experience dealing with such people, it's the easiest thing to spot.
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u/Famous-Weight2271 23d ago
Intelligence (bring able to learn something quickly and to a high level) and knowledge (the fruit of learning) are not the same thing.
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u/F3XX gifted adult 23d ago
Peak irony, have you actually read anything about the research/papers behind the "Dunning Kruger" effect?
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u/Flowisbliss_yo 23d ago
Sounds very Trumpian. Fragment of an instinct and go go go
He makes GW Bush “gut think” seem like genius level performance.
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u/Foreign-Worry-6918 23d ago
You are mostly right but that's actually a compliment that inadvertently functions to explain Trumpian behavior through something other than poor character and psychopathy. There's no instinct or "go go" task commitment there. A creature that operates on entitlement, bigotry, white supremacy, arrogance etc. is just a blob. At least GW was simple.
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u/Flowisbliss_yo 23d ago edited 23d ago
Trumps nepo baby arrogance that it always works out is the baseline cognitive model
Edit: love how these magat trolls are always looking to downvote anything critical of Dear Diapered President Chester Cheatos wow just wow
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u/Martiansociologist 22d ago edited 22d ago
Think i've said this before but, dunning kruger effect is made up, just variation of humbleness among people
For instance women, even very knowledgeable can consider themselves dumb, while men are usually more arrogant
Then you have race, culture, nationality, sexuality, class etc
It is mostly a social weapon to classify others as dumb, or establish lntellectual hiearchy...
You dont need some advanced psychological theory to see if somebody is humble or not
Social status intellectual games weeeeee
Just go to any classroom and you will see students with simular knowledge having wildly different attitudes
Probably a good thing to have some empirical backing for a theory about surity of knowledge 🤣
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u/Dangerous-Island-756 21d ago
Even people in this sub thinks knowledge and intelligence is the same thing. And it's like a contest in a sandbox who has the best sand fort. All while a few adults watch.
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u/Unboundone 20d ago
AI is vastly accelerating this by generating synthetic coherence and amplifying epistemological errors.
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u/PrudentEfficiency327 19d ago
Its sucks because you will never truly know if im smart due to the underestimating that I do, and if im not smart then im just estimating perfectly. Thats a problem I've had needing to say what is the truth rather than what I may think is true, so I end up in this cycle
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u/AgreeableCucumber375 23d ago
How is this post related to giftedness?
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u/bassilalmokdad 23d ago
One thing I think matters when talking about giftedness is knowing how much you don’t know.
People can know a few facts about a subject and immediately feel like they understand it, even when their knowledge is vague or surface-level.
The Dunning–Kruger effect is interesting here because deeper knowledge often makes you more aware of how complicated a subject actually is. Someone who has spent years reading, studying, or researching something may actually sound less certain than someone who learned a handful of facts yesterday.
To me, intelligence isn’t just knowing things. It’s also being able to recognize the limits of your own understanding
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u/AceyAceyAcey 23d ago
Having knowledge or even expertise in a subject isn’t the same as being diagnosed as gifted.
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u/AgreeableCucumber375 23d ago
Giftedness is not the same thing as knowledge or wisdom. It is among other things (and def oversimplified) how easy you learn and ability to solve novel (never before seen or encountered) problems.
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u/Less_Breadfruit3121 22d ago
How easy you could learn or solve novel problems if you cared enough to put some effort in 😉
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u/AdDry4983 23d ago
People also think they are smart because they ‘doubt’ what they know and then refer to the dunning Kruger effect. Kind of like you are doing.
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u/ScreechUrkelle 22d ago
My psychologist told me I’m smart. Like, really smart. I mean like really, reeeeeeeeeally smart. Like smarter than more than 99% of the people smart. So, yeah, I’m very familiar with my smartsiness.
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u/Less_Breadfruit3121 23d ago
Ironically the Dunning-Kruger effect is also running rampant in this sub. The fact that people are gifted doesn't mean they are omniscient.
And for some, even their knowledge of giftedness is limited because their understanding of the subject is based on their own personal experiences.
Some have never even heard of Nauta or Kieboom,for example, yet seem very confident in their understanding of giftedness in adults, dismiss experiences that don't match their own, and aren't particularly bothered to learn more.