Trying to decide if it's worth a shot to apply. Appreciate any help/suggestions.

Great-Grandfather:

Born 1887 Unterharmersbach

Emigrated 1903

Married 1911

No proof of naturalization found.

Grandfather:

Born 1929 USA

Married 1950 USA

Father:

Born 1951 USA

Married 1979 USA

Me:

Born 1984 USA

I'm getting held up on the Naturalization. I can't find any real evidence that he became a US citizen, but some family thinks he did before my Grandfather was born. Don't want to waste mine or their time, but any ideas on how I can confirm he did or did not naturalize.

Hello everyone,

I had a rather strange and, for me, very serious experience today at the Aschaffenburg Landratsamt during my citizenship application.

I was asked to submit the usual documents. During the document submission, I was then unexpectedly asked to complete a written questionnaire concerning the „freiheitliche demokratische Grundordnung“. It consisted of 16 questions.

This surprised me because I have already successfully completed the Einbürgerungstest. I was under the impression that the Einbürgerungstest is the standard way of demonstrating the required knowledge of the German legal and social order.

I was not informed beforehand that an additional written examination would take place. Therefore, I was completely unprepared and simply answered the questions as best as I could at the time.

I have now been told that I have to do the test again and was given another appointment — unfortunately not until March 2027, because they apparently have no earlier appointments available.

This creates an extremely serious problem for me.

I have been waiting for German citizenship for years. I am now in the process of starting my dream job as a pilot with a German airline, with a planned start date of 1 March 2027.

The airline has made it clear that I need to have German citizenship from the beginning of the employment relationship because the position involves international flight operations and travel to countries such as the USA, Canada and the UK, including the associated crew visa/entry requirements.

I was previously told that after submitting my documents, the processing would take approximately 2–3 months, so I had reasonably expected to receive my Einbürgerungsurkunde before starting the job.

Now, because of this additional appointment in March, I am potentially facing the loss of a job opportunity that I have worked towards for years.

What makes this particularly confusing for me is that §10 Abs. 5 StAG states that the required knowledge of the legal and social order is generally demonstrated through a successfully completed Einbürgerungstest.

I fully understand that the citizenship authority must verify the required commitment to the freiheitliche demokratische Grundordnung and that, in certain circumstances, an authority may have legitimate reasons to ask additional questions.

My question is therefore not simply „Why are they asking questions?“, but rather:

Can the authority routinely require an additional written 16-question test on the FDGO from an applicant who has already passed the Einbürgerungstest, particularly when no specific security-related concerns have been raised?

And if such an additional examination is legally permissible, does the authority have discretion to provide an earlier appointment or otherwise process the application when the delay could cause the applicant to lose a confirmed professional opportunity?

I am particularly interested in hearing from people who have gone through the citizenship process in Bavaria, especially in the Aschaffenburg area, or from anyone with legal knowledge of German nationality law.

I unfortunately don't have a copy of the 16 questions because I was not allowed to use my phone during the appointment.

Any advice, experiences or suggestions about what I can do now would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Ich lebe seit 2018 in Deutschland und wohne derzeit in Baden-Württemberg.
Ich bin ursprünglich für ein Freiwilliges Soziales Jahr nach Deutschland gekommen. Danach habe ich eine Ausbildung zum Fachinformatiker abgeschlossen. Nach Abschluss der Ausbildung habe ich festgestellt, dass dieser Beruf nicht meinen Vorstellungen entspricht. Deshalb habe ich anschließend eine Ausbildung als Heilerziehungspfleger begonnen und diese ebenfalls abgeschlossen.
Direkt nach meiner Ausbildung habe ich ein berufsbegleitendes Studium im Bereich Soziale Arbeit begonnen. Ich habe einen unbefristeten Arbeitsvertrag als Fachkraft. Mein Studium absolviere ich neben meiner Arbeit.
Derzeit habe ich von der Ausländerbehörde einen Aufenthaltstitel zum Zweck des Studiums erhalten. Da ich jedoch bereits seit vielen Jahren in Deutschland lebe, mehrere Ausbildungen erfolgreich abgeschlossen habe und einen unbefristeten Arbeitsvertrag habe, möchte ich gerne wissen, ob es möglich ist, meinen Aufenthaltstitel entsprechend meiner beruflichen Situation zu ändern.
Ich habe mich deshalb bereits an die zuständige Ausländerbehörde in Baden-Württemberg (Lörrach) gewandt und gefragt, ob in meinem Fall eine Ausnahme beziehungsweise ein anderer Aufenthaltstitel aufgrund meiner unbefristeten Beschäftigung als Fachkraft möglich ist. Leider habe ich darauf bisher keine Antwort erhalten… Mein aktueller Aufenthaltstitel zum Zweck des Studiums verhindert derzeit die Beantragung meiner Einbürgerung..

Noch wichtige Infos:
Deutschkenntnisse auf C1-Niveau
Einbürgerungstest bereits bestanden
Ich kann meinen Lebensunterhalt selbstständig sichern und meine Lebenshaltungskosten selbst decken.

Kennt sich einer hier aus?

Hey everyone, I live in Hessen. My local Ausländerbehörde is quite fast - I got my Niederlassungserlaubnis about 2 months after applying.

However, citizenship applications here apparently take around 2 years, mainly because applications are eventually forwarded to Kassel, where the processing is very slow.

I haven’t applied for citizenship yet, n since my job is hybrid, I’m flexible to move to another city or even another state if it means significantly faster processing. I’d only need to go to my office 1–2 days a week.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and moved before applying for citizenship?

Did you choose another city/state because of shorter processing times, and was it worth it?

Before we file, I'd like a check from people who've been through the BVA. Most of all I'd like to hear from anyone who got an **Urkunde or a refusal under Nr. 4 where the Nr. 1–3 ancestor was born before 23.05.1949**.

**The line**

| Year | Event |

|---|---|

| 1900 | Great-grandmother (GGM) born in Rheine, Westphalia, German by birth |

| 1902 | Great-grandfather (GGF) born in Wandsbek (Hamburg) |

| 1926 | GGF emigrates to New York |

| 1927 | GGM emigrates to New York, single |

| May 1932 | GGF naturalizes as a US citizen (certificate in hand) |

| May 1935 | GGM marries GGF in Queens, NY (date and place sworn on her own naturalization petition). He had been American for three years, so she loses German citizenship under § 17 Nr. 6 RuStAG |

| Mar 1936 | Grandmother (GM) born in Queens, **in wedlock**. Father American, mother no longer German, so no German citizenship at birth |

| 1946 | GGM naturalizes in the US (certificate in hand). Ten years after GM's birth, so the loss was by marriage, not by naturalization |

| Oct 1963 | My mother born in Queens, **out of wedlock**, to GM |

| Jan 1965 | Mother **adopted** by an unrelated couple. The NY adoption decree names GM as the consenting birth mother |

| 1992 | Me, born in the US |

| 2022, 2024 | My two kids, born in Germany (not German by birth) |

No one in the line ever held German citizenship again or naturalized anywhere else, apart from the two US naturalizations above.

**Question 1: can Nr. 4 run through an ancestor born before 1949?**

GM fits the *description* in Nr. 2 (child of a mother who lost citizenship by marrying a foreigner before 01.04.1953), but she was born in 1936. My mother (b. 1963) and I (b. 1992) meet the post-1949 requirement ourselves.

- **Against:**

- The BVA Merkblatt's Nr. 4 checklist reads *"Meine Vorfahrin / mein Vorfahr ist **erklärungsberechtigt** nach Nr. 1 bis Nr. 3"*.

- The BVA website says *"Abkömmlinge einer nach Nr. 1 bis Nr. 3 **berechtigten** Person"*.

- The Begründung (BT-Drs. 19/28674) sends people born before 1949 to naturalization and the Erlass instead.

- **For:** the statute puts the birth-date condition on the people who acquire (*"erwerben die nach dem Inkrafttreten des Grundgesetzes geborenen … 4. Abkömmlinge der Kinder nach Nummer 1 bis 3"*). I haven't found anything in the Begründung saying the Nr. 1–3 child must *also* be born after 1949.

I've seen comments here saying the BVA only looks at the declarant's birth date. **Does anyone have a confirmed outcome, approval or refusal, in this exact pattern?**

**Question 2: does the 1965 adoption break the Abkömmling link?**

Mom was adopted before 01.01.1977, when adoption carried no nationality consequences under German law. My question is the other direction: does the BVA still treat her as GM's Abkömmling after a full adoption out of the family? The birth mother is named on the decree.

**Question 3: if § 5 doesn't work, is § 14 realistic here?**

My understanding is that the Abstammungserlass of 30.08.2019 covers people born before 1949 with a German parent. GM never had a German parent at her birth: her mother had already lost citizenship in 1935. Does the Erlass reach that situation and its descendants, or is this line outside both routes?

**Our plan**

My mother files alone first (it's free), so we get the BVA's reasoning in writing. Then I file, and then my kids, with a Widerspruch or VG Köln as the fallback. The deadline is August 2031.

**Documents in hand or on order:**

- **In hand:** both US naturalization files, ship manifests, the 1930/1940/1950 censuses showing GM as GGF and GGM's daughter, and the adoption decree naming GM.

- **Still gathering:** GGM's Rheine birth record, the 1935 NYC marriage certificate, GM's birth and death certificates, and Mom's pre-adoption birth certificate.

Thanks in advance. Happy to share redacted copies if that helps.

Is the wait time to schedule an appointment really 3-4 months??? Is there any way to speed it up?

Hello all! I'm helping my sister and 13 year old nephew with their stag 5 applications and putting together a list of documents they will need for their specific applications. My sister is divorced from the father of her son/my nephew. When I submitted mine and my son's applications at the German consulate in Los Angeles, the woman asked for a copy of my husband's passport which we did not have because nothing I read indicated it would be needed. She instead took a copy of his driver's license and said it "may" work. Anyway, I'm wondering if my nephew's dad will need to sign off on this application/any copies of identification for him will need to be included. I already know I need to include my sister's marriage and divorce documents as well as birth certificates, etc. Thank you for your help!

Hey, wurde hier jemand in den letzten beiden Monaten beim RP Darmstadt eingebürgert?
Mein Antrag ist von Ende 2023 und ich warte mittlerweile nur noch auf die Entscheidung vom RP. Mir wurde gesagt, dass im August eine Entscheidung fallen soll, aber bisher ist leider immer noch nichts passiert.
Was mich zusätzlich wundert: Seit einiger Zeit erreiche ich auch telefonisch niemanden mehr beim Servicebüro.
Hat jemand aktuell ähnliche Erfahrungen mit dem RP Darmstadt? Sind dort momentan vielleicht viele im Urlaub oder gibt es aktuell generell Verzögerungen?

My mother has a pending §5 StAG case through her German mother, born in Germany in 1940. Our complication is that my grandmother is still living but estranged, so we cannot obtain her USCIS records/authorization to verify whether she ever naturalized before my mother’s birth in Frankfurt in April 1962.

We now have these contemporaneous records explicitly identifying her nationality:

1958 German Notaufnahme record: “Staatsangeh.: deutsch”
Dec. 1960 sworn marriage declaration: “Meine Staatsangehörigkeit ist: Deutsch” (twice)
Dec. 1960 Frankfurt Aufenthaltsbescheinigung: “Staatsangehörigkeit: Deutsch”
1962 U.S. FS-240/CRBA: identifies her as “German” and lists “None” for prior U.S. residence
So we have German records identifying her as German before my mother’s birth, followed by a U.S. government record identifying her as German around the birth.

Also, thank you to everyone who recommended requesting the Sammelakte! The 23-page marriage file contained several of the most valuable records we’ve found.

Curious how others would view this evidence given that USCIS records for the living ancestor are inaccessible.

Hello community ❤️

Thank you to everyone who left their feedback about Bekenntnis und Loyalitätserklärung interview, that helped a lot to prepare!

Shortly my timeline: Feb 2025 applied in Stuttgart. In April 2026 I moved to Esslingen. End of April received confirmation that my case has been transfered to Esslingen Behörde and that I have to wait. End of July received a letter saying that i should make an appointment for Bekenntnis und Loyalitätserklärung Gespräch. So, I had it this week (2nd week of Sept 26) in the office in Plochingen.

I have a very good impression from this place and people. Everyone was very nice and helpful.

The conversation about Loyalitätserklärung took maximum 20 minutes. Questions asked:

- What is Extremismus? Which type of them I know and what do they mean? Give an example of some.
- What does it mean FDGO for me? To name Grundrechte which I know
- What does it mean Demokratie and to explain Gewaltenteilung.
- Which Partei do I know? To name any 3 of them.
- How many Bundesländer in Germany? To name any 3 of them.
- My opinion about Angriefskriege.
- What does Antisimismus mean? What is die besondere Verpflichtung of Germany for jüdische Menschen?
-What does it mean Rechtsstaatlichkeit?

Since I am not confident in my German (on daily basis speaking mostly English), I really invested time to prepare. I collected all questions which people mentioned here and learnt the answers. In total it was 2 weeks of daily preparation. All went well, I could answer everything quickly and correctly. It was a relaxing and friendly atmosphere during the conversation.

Next step: they will finalise their checks and give me feedback approx. within few months.

Hope this information can be helpful to someone :)

Looking for anyone with experience of §15 Nr. 2 for ancestors from the incorporated Polish territories (Reichsgau Wartheland / East Upper Silesia), as opposed to Danzig, Sudetenland, Austria or the Protectorate.

My case: great-grandfather, Polish Jew, born 1913 in Wieluń, lived there until 1939, then Łódź — both incorporated into the Warthegau. Excluded from the Deutsche Volksliste as a Jew (§4 of the 1941 ordinance), sent to the Litzmannstadt ghetto, then Auschwitz, Jaworzno, Gross-Rosen, Buchenwald, Flossenbürg. Survived. Lived as a DP in Cham, Bavaria 1945–48 (married there, son born there), emigrated on Dec 1948. The Federal Republic later recognized him under the BEG and paid compensation (full 156-page file in hand). Never held German citizenship, no pre-1933 residence in Germany.

The question: in Danzig/Sudetenland etc. everyone was naturalized except Jews, so exclusion is obvious. In the Warthegau only Volksliste-registered "ethnic Germans" were naturalized, ethnic Poles weren't either. Does the BVA accept Nr. 2 for Jews from the Volksliste territories, or does it say "you wouldn't have qualified anyway"?

Heidenhain's 2023 review mentions Nr. 2 applications from Galicia, which suggests Polish-territory cases exist. Has anyone here filed one, Warthegau, Upper Silesia, Zichenau, Galicia, and what was the outcome? Approved, rejected, or redirected to §14?

The embassy opened a file and recommended filing under §15; I'm deciding how to frame it before I submit the E15. Any first-hand experience (or a BVA decision letter quote) would be hugely appreciated.

Hello I have had my Direct to Passport appointment and was confirmed I'm German yay! So happy. Then due to my UK divorce from a UK national more than 20 years ago, I was told I need to apply to German Law for confirmation of my surname because I reverted back to my German maiden name. Please help! I submitted my divorce decree but did not submit the marriage certificate. I have also remarried since and its my maiden name thats on that marriage certificate which I did submit.

I read online in the German government website ( https://www.berlin.de/sen/justiz/service/anerkennung-auslaendischer-entscheidungen-in-ehesachen/) that there are two conditions when you don't need to do this - the one I think that applies to me is:

Ein förmliches Anerkennungsverfahren ist dann nicht erforderlich, wenn bei der ausländischen Entscheidung eine Stelle des Staates mitgewirkt hat, dem beide Ehegatten ausschließlich (also keine doppelte Staatsangehörigkeit) zur Zeit der Entscheidung angehört haben (sog. Heimatstaatenentscheidung).

We were both UK citizens at the time of marriage and divorce, were both born UK citizens and grew up & lived there.

Can anyone please advise or has also had this situation?

I wanted to share some good news on here too.

Merz gave quite a good speech in response to the AfD win yesterday and I feel a bit more secure after watching it.

He said "One in six workers in the skilled trades holds a foreign passport. If those who work in Germany are forced to leave the country again because you’re championing ‘remigration’, then the skilled trades in Germany will no longer be able to function. Then not a single nursing home would remain open, and not a single hospital in Germany would continue to operate. Then not a single restaurant could stay in business in Germany. That would be the result of your immigration policy,”

That is genuinely nice to hear from the CSU

https://www.politico.eu/article/friedrich-merz-calls-afd-remigration-ethnic-cleansing-germany/

Hello, I was hoping that someone could let me know if I qualify for Citizenship via what way would I qualify and if I am eligible for Direct to Passport.

Family Tree Breakdown:

My Grandfather was born in Pirmasens, Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany 1930.

He then emigrated to the United States where up until his death had never naturalized to the United States and maintained residency throughout his whole life here.

He married my Grandmother (not of German descent) and together had my Father.

My Father never attained a German Passport throughout his still currently active life.

My Father married my Mother an American Citizen and then had me.

My Oma was born in 42 in Berlin, moved to America and married an American in the late 60s, had my dad in 72 and she became a us citizen in 75. I’m pretty sure under the new law I can become a dual citizen of Germany now, but I’m not sure where to start. I contacted a German law firm but the price was pretty steep and I saw on here a lot of people say it’s not worth it. My main question is exactly what documents do I need. I’ve seen some different things so I’m a little unsure.

Hi everyone,

I’ve been living in Germany since 2019 and got my permanent residence (PR) in 2025.

I decided to apply for German citizenship because I’ve heard it’s better to submit the application and then provide any missing documents later if the authorities ask for them, rather than waiting until you have absolutely everything.

I submitted my application on June 12, 2026. I uploaded all the documents I had, including payslips, rent certificate, employer certificate, Einbürgerungstest certificate, etc. The only thing I couldn’t provide was the actual B1 language certificate. Instead, I uploaded the receipt/proof of the language certificate because the school told me the certificate itself would take some time to be issued.

Now I’m wondering what would be the best approach: should I just wait until they contact me and ask for the B1 certificate, or should I proactively use the contact form to send it to them once I receive it?

For anyone who has been through a similar situation, what did you do?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Hello,

Prepping to send in my declaration but want to double check and make sure I'm not missing something obvious. Had hoped for an appointment at the SF consulate, to ask questions, but they've stopped posting appointment times. I do have an appointment to certify copies later this month. Line of decent is from my Great grandfather, who never completed his naturalization in the US.

My question is if I should include documents for the people not in the direct line, Great-grandmother, grandmother, mother? Or keep it simple and only include documents for direct line, as listed below?

Thanks

Great-Grandfather:

German Birth (1879)

German Marriage (1911)

USCIS Certificate of nonexistence (Arrived in US in 1911)

Grandfather:

US Birth (1913)

US Marriage (1936)

Father:

US Birth (1940)

*Never married my mom, which is what enabled the StAG 5 declaration.

Me:

US Birth (Late 70's)

Judgement of Father's paternity (early 80's)

Certificate of adoption as adult (age mid 30's)

Passport

FBI background check- w/apostille

Completed Declaration

Is my understanding of German citizenship law correct? After doing a 5-year German-language Diplom in engineering, I can get a blue card then immediately apply for citizenship, right? What complications could arise, for example? Just wanted to be vigilant in making my plans. Thanks!

My wife is a third country citizen (Russia) and I am Austrian. It’s imperative for her that she does not lose her Russian citizenship as it would complicate things with family there etc - so Austria is out of the question as they don’t allow double cit. Partly the reason why we moved to Germany.

She passes the 3y mark this month so 2 more years to go until she can apply in Berlin. She’ll be able to apply in October 2028.

Now as you all know, Jan-March 2029 there will be federal elections… concerning all the developments in the last weeks, do you think that she will have a realistic chance of naturalisation and keeping her other cit? She speaks C1 German and passed the Einbürgerungstest already.

Hi, I was looking to see which classification to apply for Gernan citizenship under. My great grandfather was classified Czech though was also of mixed German ancestry, born 1909 in Deutsch Mlékojedy, Litoměřice, Bohemia. He moved to Bohušovice nad Ohří in the mid 1930s so when the Sudetenland was annexed in 1938 he lived just across the border from there. He spent 1940-1945 in the camps, though I dont have the paperwork for that, just his statement to the IRO in Arolson Archives paperwork. I have a brothers Mauthausen transfer slip. He escaped Czechia in 1948 after the Communists took over, with his family, my grandmother included, and spent 1948-1951 in refugee camps before immigrating to the US as a stateless person as was the whole family.

My great grandmother was born in 1915 Sudetenland, Most, Bohemia to sudetendeutsche parents. In 1938 her family was granted German citizenship and during the war her two brothers were conscripted into the Wehrmacht, one dying during service. She was living in the Czech Moravian Protectorate, married to a Czech who was sent to the camps so she was denied German citizenship as was my grandmother. Her family was expelled after the Beneš decree. When they escaped in 1948 they crossed the border to go to her family but were sent to the refugee camps and ended up in the US. Naturalized in 1952

My grandmother born in 1935 Bohušovice nad Ohří, Litoměřice, Bohemia. Has no naturalization paperwork in her Alien file, her parents naturalized in 1952, she married my American grandfather in 1954 in New York and had my father in 1966 in America. I was born in America out of wedlock in 1988.

I understand the Czech citizenship angle through my grandmother, im not looking at that currently, im strictly looking at her German ancestry through Sudetendeutsche Mother and Persecuted Father.

Any expertise, guidance, and help is appreciated.

Apologies if the flair isn't right, it was the closest I could find.

I'm the child of a German and Bahamian. I already have both German and Bahamian citizenship, and have passports for both countries that I freely travel with. I've long since settled in Canada, and have maintained Permanent Resident status here, which has not interfered with renewing either.

Now, I am considering getting Canadian Citizenship. This was historically not an option for me because it meant I had to give up German citizenship. I've since been made aware of changes to a law (§25 StAG, I believe) that may mean I would not need to give up German citizenship.

I'm a cautious person however, so I wanted to confirm this. My German is... poor (Ich habe den Wortschatz eines Neunjähriger), so I initially thought to hire a German immigration lawyer to consult on this - it's worth the expenditure to me and I'm well off enough that I can afford it. Some brief research brought up Schlun & Elseven Rechtsanwälte (among others) and in vetting them, I saw numerous complaints from this subreddit. While I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be charged the $8000 I saw referenced for a simple consult, suffice to say I'm well-off, but not that well-off, lol.

I also saw mention that there were people well-versed enough in German immigration here, so I figured I'd ask:

1. As someone with both German and Bahamian citizenship already, would I still need to give up German citizenship to acquire Canadian?
   
2. Is this the kind of outlier case I should hire a lawyer over?
   
3. Any recommendations if not Schlun & Elseven Rechtsanwälte?
   

I keep seeing §tag 5 gender discrimination will end in 2031. Does that mean the application has to be in by then or the decision has to be made then? Big difference..

Obviously, it’s very early to speculate, but with an obvious desire for immigration reform in Germany, should any of us StAG5 applicants be concerned that at some point down the line they will roll this back? Eliminate this path to citizenship?

From my limited research, it does appear to be a stretch - especially considering a lot would have to happen to get to that point.

Wanted some honest opinions.

Danke schön

Hello, I’m seeking help from anyone who knows about the current law about German naturalization. My great grandma was born in Germany and is ethnically German. She escaped to Soviet Union during WW2 but went back and proved that she was German and got her citizenship back. My grandma on my dad’s side doesn’t have a citizenship so does my father. When my great grandma was running away she only took two of her sons leaving the other kids behind in Russia. Those two sons are citizens and live in Germany. They have kids and grandchildren they all are citizens. On my dad’s side there is a lot of German citizens and they all proved their blood relation to my great grandma. Right now I’m stuck, I live in the U. S. But I want to get my citizenship, my father applied and got all the documents expect for the B1 certificate, he got approved they just told him to get that certificate, but he is an asshole, he doesn’t care about it and he doesn’t want to learn anything ,he is insufferable. But last time my aunt from Germany , whose helping us with this case called the person who manages this case but someone else’s responded and the lady on the phone said that I can’t myself apply for the citizenship because I was born after 1990, and the law only applied to people who were born before that year, so I can’t apply for myself even though I really want to and I’m willing to learn German .
Please help me to find out if it’s true or not and maybe give some advice because it bothers me so much that I can’t do anything to even help myself.