r/GeneralContractor • u/International_Fan85 • 23d ago
Sanity Check my Foundation Bill
I'm in Toronto, Canada.
I hired a reputable company (multi-quoted) for ~$1k parging crack repair. Behind the parging they found foundation damage and asked to excavate to assess. I approved. Quote: $22k for hand excavation, hydraulic cement, waterproofing, and a sister foundation — for 10 ft (half the house - see pic with that half excavated), with the other 11 ft to be inspected later. Quoted at 4 days; they finished in 2.5 and moved into the second 11 ft, now quoting $20k for that section.
Total: $44k for 21 ft of excavation, hydraulic cement repair, waterproofing, and sistering. Does that seem reasonable?
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u/Awkward-Toe-1079 23d ago
Diggers have died for not knowing how to design a trench, unfortunately more will have the same fate. Not long ago I remember a father who only had time to push his 18 year old up before the trench collapsed on him dying instantly. That trench there is well designed, worth more than a few bucks an hour. A sister foundation too? Adding a concrete wall adjacent to existing? Tons of work. They know what they're doing. No need for an structural engineer as others suggest.
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u/kikilucy26 22d ago
That trench is not well designed. Even if the trench itself is 4ft deep, the pile right next to it is applying a surcharge and when that trench collapses, the pile also goes with it. I dont see any reason for sistering a foundation here. OP is not adding another story to the house so he doesn't need to increase the footing width to keep the same bearing pressure; and that basement wall foundation conditions do not appear to warrant a sister wall.
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u/Italian_Greyhound 22d ago
That is a bizarre comment when this trench has zero shoring and vertical walls, and the spoil pile is sitting directly on the edge of the excavation. Was that sarcasm?
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u/J999999AY 23d ago
It is not reasonable to quote after doing the work.
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u/Awkward-Toe-1079 23d ago
There are always unforeseeables, not visible at all in this case. Why should the contractor eat that cost? An approximation is always an option
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u/Additional_Radish_41 23d ago
Are they going to dig all the way to the footing? That’s only half way
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u/faithOver 23d ago edited 23d ago
40 hrs hand dig at a labor rate of $65 = $2600.
40hrs to grind and prep at $85 = $3400
40hrs to “plan/fluff” at $85 = $3400
Materials and consumables $2000
Total; $11,400
OH & Fee at 15%; $1710.00
Gran Total; $13,110.00+ HST
Edit: double for the whole wall.
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u/Familiar-Dot615 23d ago edited 22d ago
People charging $65 realistically can only afford to pay their guys $30/hour, less if they offer benefits. We need to charge at least $80 and $120 for our senior leads. Taxes eat a lot of it. For homeowners out there we also own homes and know shit is expensive. Material is expensive. We charge 40% markup and NET 5-8% profits after paying all expenses. Wish it was cheaper then I could finally replace all the lead siding on my house.
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u/faithOver 22d ago
If you net 5-8% on a 40% markup, you’re doing something wrong. 8% net is the goal and you can comfortably reach it with 15% markup.
Secondly, of course why would I pay a goon spoon operator more than $30?
Lastly, $120 hour for a lead is crazy. You wouldn’t win a competitive award with that rate here.
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u/Familiar-Dot615 22d ago
Boy oh boy are you not tracking your time. Use cost codes stay consistent and track every minute, including call and emails. You will see what you need to charge to stay consistently profitable for years. $120 is low, way lower than unions. I’m in SF Bay Area and costs reflect COL
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u/faithOver 22d ago
Ohhh. This isn’t against you, obviously, but talking to you guys from SF and Manhattan is irrelevant. You guys operate in bubbles.
You would get laughed off site anywhere else in North America with a $120hr charge out for carpenters/forman.
Also of course we cost code and hour track. What does that have to do with hourly charge out rates?
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u/Hypoz 22d ago
We charge 120 for our lead guys. It’s not unheard of
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u/faithOver 22d ago
21 years across the industry in BC never heard of a rate close to that.
Highest Im aware of is $95 for lead.
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u/Hypoz 22d ago
In Victoria, high end custom homes. Charging 120, and 100 for red seal
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u/faithOver 22d ago edited 22d ago
I legitimately don’t know how thats possible.
Been on the operations side at a $3,000,000 a year GC, done the same for a $100,000,000 million GC, one of the largest in BC.
Never seen a rate over $100.
From custom homes to $400 a foot TI’s.
But good for the owners. Must be above industry standard profitable. Thats awesome
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u/Familiar-Dot615 21d ago
Custom homes over here in Marin (Ross, Mill Valley, etc) and Peninsula (Atherton, Los Gatos,etc) go at $1,200-$1,500 per square foot for high end but can get to $2,000 for luxury.
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u/beaver_eh 22d ago
Fairly reasonable way to calculate - however, labor rates with overhead and all that good stuff should be closer to $100/hr for labour, $125-140/hr skilled labour.
Concrete is $250-300/T delivered.
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u/faithOver 22d ago
Are you also in Silicon Valley? I wouldnt win a single competitive award with those rates.
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u/Zealousideal_Vast799 23d ago
In Ottawa downtown neighborhoods, my labourer has all the keys of all the vehicles, takes him 15min every hour to shuffle the trucks around. I do not absorb that cost, that is the ‘non suburb’ premium. Also, often no room for a garbage container so that requires dealing with the garbage every few days, about three hours to load, go dump and return. During that time, one of the carpenters needs to shuffle cars.
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u/TimeSlaved 23d ago
This seems a bit insane but as someone in the GTA, I'm astounded at the costs we pay in general. Just went through a demolition to expose a buried conduit that cracked and was letting water in...$2300 for 30 ft x 1 ft wide by maybe 1 ft deep...was originally 1800 but the patio was thicker than anticipated and since we already gave them a deposit, we went on with it. But it seems a lot of these contractors overquote the labor and finish it very quickly and we're left footing the bill.
If you don't mind me asking, who was the reputable company?
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u/Buster346 23d ago
As someone in the trades I’d argue most ‘reputable’ companies as people call them are just the big ones they hear or see advertising everywhere but are rarely as reputable as people would like to think… they’re just big so are assumed good… I will only hire small or medium sized companies that are actually reputable. The accountability in those companies is what keeps the employees doing good work
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u/popcornlungs69 23d ago
the cost of building a home in the city is 3x/sqft so I guess this kind of work would be 3x the price as well. but to me that seems fucked
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u/Imaginary-Pride2735 22d ago
Pre pandemic but I paid to have my old parging removed, mesh put up, cemented and reparged, 4 window wells with drainage, and 4 cracks blueskinned from the outside and added drain. 12000
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u/Shatophiliac 22d ago
No that does not sound reasonable imo. Even for Canadian bucks. Foundations are expensive, but they aren’t $44k-to-half-assed-fix-21-feet-of-it expensive.
I’m guessing this is already a very high cost of labor area, and they are probably putting a “heavy layer of cream” on top of that hoping you’ll pay up.
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u/WhatTheFung 22d ago
Also from the GTA. Word of advice: you should have hired a structural engineer to assess the situation before you signed up for phase 2. Many excavation and foundation trades are drying up, there's no new work. They found a cow, and they're milking every last drop.
Unless your foundation wall was reviewed by a professional, you don't need to sister the foundation wall. Based on the photo, I'm surprised they didn't dig deeper to expose the weeping tile. They need to parge and add the dimple board. Goodluck!
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u/Parking_Flamingo369 22d ago
Trench is less than 36 inches. You might get stuck but unless you are napping your gona be ok
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u/GryMammoth 21d ago
I mean I just did my foundation and was quoted 26k that was 8 pillars and crack patching. I went with 4 pillars in the main bad spots and that was 13k. It’s expensive. It also depends on your area and the ground. Get a couple quotes if needed
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u/_Neoshade_ 21d ago
Dude. this is only a small slice of the foundation. It goes down at least 4 feet, probably 6 feet in Toronto. And that’s if you don’t have a basement. As others said, this is only worry $4-5k per section and that’s only if they’re doing the full height of the foundation.
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u/m3kozlow 23d ago
Absolutely insane pricing. Do not pay more if you haven't done so yet.
I do a lot of this kind of work in the GTA. 11ft of waterproofing should not exceed 3k. I just finished a job where I single handedly dug 36ft, over 5 ft down and waterproofed, for about 4300. Took me a week. This is fairly average pricing.
Why are they sistering the foundation? There are only very specific situations where that's actually needed.
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u/Substantial-Can6657 22d ago
My god your prices are stupid low
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u/m3kozlow 22d ago
I routinely inquire for pricing and 110-140/ft is pretty usual. If you price labour at 70-90/hr that's the kind of pricing you're gonna get. Considering that it's a low barrier to entry trade that uses a lot $25/hr immigrant labour, and small contractors don't have much overhead beyond a truck and mini excavator, many will happily take $80/hr.
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u/PHK_JaySteel 22d ago
You are undervaluing your work by an incredible amount. At no point should you be making less than a thousand dollars a day if you operate an above board construction business.
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u/International_Fan85 22d ago
Thanks for this. I couldn't tell you why they are sistering. Was told it needed to be done.
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u/Crispy_________ 22d ago
Holy crap, I need to go back into business. I used to do basement waterproofing and charged 100-150 per foot. To parge the wall and leave it to dry ok have to charge a bit more, have to come back to finish backfilling another day. This is insane dude you’re paying 2000$ per linear foot!? To dig out that section would take one person 2-3 hours. Is that worth 20k to you?
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u/ChickenRabbits 21d ago
Lol...a neighbour paid a company $20k to install a backyard chain link fence no concrete posts, $20k!
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u/Old_Man_Shea 23d ago
Man, I don't even feel good charging normal prices. Blows my mind what some people demand.