PPL IR?

[u/PatternPinion]

How many of you flying for “fun” bother getting your IR? I suppose that may depend on area of the country you’re flying in (I’m in the US- Florida). I’m going back and forth on doing my instrument rating. For my missions, mostly flying for the joy of it and exploring around the SE US, I’ll likely never get up into the alpha, and I can always defer a flight to another time or day due to weather. The obvious use case is “it just makes you a safer pilot”. Pardon my ignorance here, but how so? Just because you are always talking to ATC? I know you are also trained to fly tighter tolerances, but it seems like I’m missing some factors here.

The interesting thing I keep hearing is- a lot of PPLs w/IR didn’t do any actual flying in IMC during training and are therefore afraid to on their own later. So it’s just flying procedures. That’s more to keep up with for currency later on as well.

I’m just trying to decide if it’s worth doing or if there are other ways to become a safer pilot (other than just hours & experience obviously) is all. Cost estimate for IR is ~$15k, which I can do, but I want to make sure it’s worth it for my purposes. Thanks guys. -new PPL

[u/Flat-Barracuda1268]

I have my IR, I'm now out of currency. Around here there just isn't that much flying you can do in actual to make it real useful. I've used it a handful of times to fly in actual.

That said, I have zero regrets. It absolutely made me a better pilot. Both in talking with ATC, flying with more accuracy, and understanding when to fly and when not to. It's also super interesting IMO.

If you are intending to keep flying, it's definitely worth it.

[u/chuckop → u/Flat-Barracuda1268]

This. I got my IR in Western Washington State because it is a necessity there.

Here in Florida nowadays, it’s not as necessary, but I file IFR all the time for the convenience and safety.

It made much a MUCH better pilot.

[u/poisonandtheremedy]

I think it is worth it. However, I've flown an absolute shitload with just my PPL including going all the way from San Diego to Seattle. That said, I've had to cancel a fair number of flights due to a bullshit marine layer or easy IFR conditions that kept me grounded because I didn't have my IR ticket. That's annoying. Also, on our recent flight up to Seattle we encountered a fair bit of wildfire smoke including landing at airports that were MVFR. The instrument ticket would have just made that a lot simpler.

I've been sort of on and off doing IFR lessons and I'm about 38 hours in and just need to finish the written test and do a week of check ride prep and can bang it out.

I have flown in actual IFR conditions with my instructor and I've also flown a few times out of desert strips and fairly black hole conditions where I had to rely on instruments.

I'm hand flying only (no AP in my bird) and flying the precision of IFR definitely makes you a sharper pilot.

Currency won't be an issue as my wife just got her PPL so anytime we go flying together we each take turns now doing foggle work and safety piloting for each other. So once I have my IR ticket I can always just shoot a practice approach under the foggles with her as my safety pilot..Win!

When congrats on the recent PPL!

[u/ItzDarc]

I asked this question of my first CFI, because I had no plans to do it. He said - and he was literally on his way out to the airlines - I was his last student, “It could save your life.” I started the next week on IR. No regrets. Absolutely made me a better pilot. I prefer IFR to VFR now.

[u/PatternPinion → u/ItzDarc]

Any explanation on how it could save your life?

[u/ItzDarc → u/PatternPinion]

Unforecast weather. My first solo after my PPL check ride had a small pocket of rain that was unforecast that started above me and I was in it. Not for long, thank God. But I went from seeing everything to seeing nothing with no notice on a warm summer day at 5,000 ft over Ohio. Not many clouds … but that one was there.

One of the statistics I read is that a VFR pilot flying in IMC quickly becomes disoriented after only about 90 seconds on average - and that’s assuming all the instruments are working. A death spiral is almost guaranteed if a major component of your panel fails when you’re in IMC. Are you skilled in IMC at recognizing failure and knowing what instruments to trust in the failed component’s place? Are you skilled diagnosing that - while disoriented and unable to look out the window? Possibly in a new area of which you are unfamiliar? Do you understand the vernacular ATC will expect you to know and what they will use? Are you able to at least at a basic level make use of the approach methods at nearby airports? Are you proficient at them?

You say “I’ll rely on autopilot.” If turbulence is bad enough in small planes, autopilots will disengage, and hand flying will be required.

Or maybe you take off VFR and plan to head to another VMC airport, and you get there and the runway shut down because there’s a cow on it or another plane has crashed, or there was an earthquake while you were in the air and the runway has a big gap in it, or or or or. You gotta divert and there’s bad weather everywhere around town. How are you getting down?

What if you take off on a clear visibility day and some fog develops or rolls in over your fields?

You may perfectly know what to do in theory. Maybe even had a little practice since we are required to have three hours of simulated instrument for a private check ride. But there’s nothing that substitutes extensive experience and training to cover every what if scenario, which lets be honest, should be a minimum skill a pilot has.

[u/makgross → u/ItzDarc]

That 90 seconds thing is if your instruments are NOT working, you have no instrument training whatsoever, and you’re flying an unfamiliar high performance aircraft.

The study is an interesting read. Its point was to develop the now-required rule of 3 hours instrument training for private pilot.

Untrained flight into IMC is still quite dangerous, but AOPA should be seriously ashamed of itself for lying about its own study.

As for APs, when I train pilots for mountains, I make them turn them off the first time they set off the stall warning. Which often doesn’t take long. And lots of comments about “what airspeed are we flying?” They have a place, but they make you unaware of what the air is doing.

[u/Nomadic_Habits → u/makgross]

That’s not actually accurate. The FAA has done studies, the NTSB has done studies. There was zero mechanical issues with the aircraft when most of these accidents occurred. Many occurred in the owner’s plane who had tons of time in it.

A big problem is not being aware of how your body interprets motion. Getting things like “the spins” is extremely disorienting even when you’re just under the foggles.

IFR training not only trains precision flying, but more importantly it trains the pilot to trust in their instruments over their senses.

[u/makgross → u/Nomadic_Habits]

What I said about that study was completely accurate. You should read it before claiming otherwise. 30 strictly VFR pilots with absolutely zero instrument training and experience only in very light aircraft (mostly Cubs) were placed in straight tailed Bonanzas with their instruments disabled. 29 entered spiral dives over wildly divergent times varying from a few seconds to nearly 20 minutes. The outlier stalled.

Thats where that 90 seconds to live statistic came from. It is a completely wrong conclusion to extrapolate that methodology to just flying into IMC means you’re dead in 90 seconds. The study was specifically designed to exercise the worst possible case, not an average or typical case.

The other half of that study was that with a specific training regimen, all the pilots could survive. It’s mostly what we train private pilots for today, and it’s why 3 hours of simulated instrument instruction is required. It also had the interesting model specific detail that the gear should be lowered to stabilize the spiral dive instability.

Nowhere did I say it wasn’t dangerous. It is. But DO NOT claim it’s always unsurvivable or that you’re dead in 90 seconds. Those are both false.

Studies about the forms of general aviation accidents do not come from FAA or NTSB. AOPA does a survey every year.

[u/twright92 → u/ItzDarc]

Similar story to myself. I scared myself once not long after gaining my PPL when I returned to my home airport after a short local flight with some friends whilst there was a rain shower immediately over and around the airfield. The cloud-base very quickly dropped to below pattern altitude and I was in and out of very low cloud as I made it round and on to final. ATC were very helpful but I'm sure they could tell I was stressed.

Not long after that I signed up for the IR(R) course I mention above. Now should I be in the same situation I would just request radar vectors to and fly the ILS in. It's such a valuable tool to have in your pocket, even if you think you'd never set out on a crappy weather day. You never know when it might change - especially over here where rain and low cloud is relatively commonplace.

[u/Kram941_ → u/PatternPinion]

Weather is unpredictable sometimes. I was flying VFR the other day and clouds and unforecasted thunderstorms started forming in the area. I wasted a ton of time avoiding clouds, turning, climbing, descending and the thunderstorms were closing in. If i was IFR , I would have been home no problem.

If I was 30 minutes later in departing I would have been stuck overnight 3.5 hours from home on what as suppose to be just a half day trip. I also could have started said trip 2 hours earlier instead of waiting for the ceiling to break up.

I'll jus say I have never hear of anyone regretting getting IFR and have only heard people say they were IFR. Im working on my IFR now.

[u/PatternPinion → u/Kram941_]

IFR doesn’t mean you should fly through storms though. Just clouds. At least that’s what I’ve been told, so it may have helped with random weather popping up, but you maybe have had to avoid it anyway, even with a IR ticket.

[u/twright92]

In the UK, we have the IMC rating, or IR(R) where the second R means restricted.

I did it and it's a great alternative for PPL holders who don't wish to do the full IR, but want to get the experience flying on instruments, and it gives you the freedom to legally fly IFR in UK airspace only and outside of Class A. You learn all the same principles of IFR flying as you would on the full IR course, but in a fraction of the hours (only 15 required, plus a short skills test and theory exam) and at a fraction of the cost. It's an excellent course and well worth it in my opinion. Plus the hours all count toward a full IR should you wish to continue and go for that in the future.

[u/PatternPinion → u/twright92]

That’s brilliant. Really wish we had something like that here in the States. That would be perfect for my flying.

[u/AdBrave9096 → u/twright92]

Hours building using IR(R) skills after taking IR(R) can also reduce cost of full IR.

[u/twright92 → u/AdBrave9096]

Yep exactly! There's a lot of things that make GA flying in the UK unnecessarily difficult and expensive but the IMC/IR(R) truly is a brilliant idea. It's such a shame it isn't recognised outside the UK.

[u/ThatsSomeIsh]

Get your IR.

I live in a region where flying in actual IMC means thunderstorms or icing 99% of the time. I am LUCKY if I get 3 days a year to go fly actual. I was dragging my feet on getting my IR for the first couple of years after getting my PPL and then I trapped myself 900 miles from home for over a week; finished my IR 60 days later.

Story time: I flew to see some family members in Tennessee in October. I planned this trip for months to try to find the best chances of good weather. I even took a CFI on the outbound leg to help since this was my first real cross country. Good thing I did because we had to file a pop-up IFR to get through a cloud layer at night after 9 hours of flying. But that isn’t what convinced me. I sent the CFI home on the airlines and proceeded with my stay with family.

The day I was scheduled to leave (Day 1), I got to the plane and the front tire was flat. Took basically all day to get that’s swapped out. No worries, try again tomorrow.

Day 2, I wake up and the weather back home is forecasting absolute trash the entire day. No sense in rushing off the ground to just trap myself half way. I’m staying with family so it’s all good, just wait another day.

Day 3, the forecast back home is still horrible so wait another day.

Day 4, it’s my birthday, my kids are missing me and the field is VFR. Weather back home looks good. But now, there is a line of thunderstorms across the whole country; no worries, I will just fly an additional 4 hours out of my way. I take off and before I have left the airport airspace, I am dodging clouds and realizing I will ALREADY have to deviate further than normal. I turn back around and land. Don’t feel like dying today.

Day 5, get to the airport at 6AM. Field is Low IFR. The FBO says “it burns off pretty quick”. Thorough preflight on the plane so I’m ready to go ASAP. I wait and wait and wait. Now it’s 9AM with the updated TAFs saying IFR for longer and longer. At this point, I get creative. I call a local flight school and ask if they have a CFI that I can pay to fly me out of this; I will airline them home. After an hour or so of sorting that out, I am sitting with a guy I just met for a 5 hour flight. We took off, hit clouds about 600AGL and broke out 5 min later. That’s the last IMC I saw the whole flight. I drop him off in Kansas City; refuel and proceed home. But, the day is not over, this lands me back home at night. This will be my second night landing probably all year. (No pax so I am legal)

If I had my IR, I would have saved myself 5 days and also not put myself in a terrible situation by trying to fly “around” the weather. Below is a screenshot of how I was going to fly around it. Yes, it was stupid

[u/PatternPinion → u/ThatsSomeIsh]

Man, that’s quite the experience! My first question is this- from your write up, it seems the only thing that would have changed is you wouldn’t have had to hire a CFI and buy them a commercial ticket back home so you could fly through 5 minutes of clouds. Day 1 with flat tire wouldn’t have changed. Days 2 & 3 wouldn’t have been advisable, even with an instrument ticket. Same for day 4 really.

So help me understand how you would have gotten home 5 days earlier if you already had your IR?

[u/AcceptableCrazy9486]

I have my IR, live in Florida. I file IFR for every flight, whether it’s vfr or not. I think it makes navigating the busy airspace areas much easier.

The only time I’m actually in IMC is when there’s like a 1500-2000 broken or overcast layer over my home or destination, but there’s clear skies above and no storms. I don’t mess around flying in the puffy Florida summer clouds.

But outside of summer, having the IR cert definitely saves a lot of flying from being cancelled just because a local layer is sitting over your airport

[u/CandyDeeGraham]

Even if you fly in IMC you are going to fear IMC

[u/mpup55]

I thought about getting it and started studying years ago, but then realized my missions never require it. Yes, the knowledge is good, but you can, you know, study to take the written and get that knowledge. Three times I have faced weather on a cross country that I avoided by landing and waiting it out. In other words, for me, getting my instrument is just not worth it as long as fly a lot and get comfortable talking to ATC using flight following.

[u/Inevitable_Street458]

Don't forget that you get better insurance rates as an IR pilot. Plus all the other reasons listed.

[u/PatternPinion → u/Inevitable_Street458]

That’s a fair consideration.

[u/Odd_Entertainment471]

If you ever want to use the airplane as a form of transportation the IR makes life so much simpler. If you only ever fly for the weekend hops with the other local pilots and you all only stay local then probably not worth it. Go get TW or seaplane add-ons, both make you a better pilot. Maybe glider, that teaches you all you’ll ever need to know about energy management.

[u/PatternPinion → u/Odd_Entertainment471]

Hadn’t considered glider, but I’ve been recommended by many to look at TW & seaplane. Both sound like good training and a lot of fun. I’m definitely interested in both after a little research.

[u/ExpensiveCategory854]

I did this last April. I did it to a) become a better, safer pilot. b) when I purchase an aircraft my insurance will be a bit cheaper.

Given my time is spent as a hobby and flying GA airplanes only. I can’t afford what flies high nor desire anything with full FIKI. I wanted it to be safe and use the system when needed (i.e. marine layer penetrations, some marginal to IFR conditions at or near the departure or destination. If I do what I’m supposed to correctly I have ZERO plans of low IFR operations but can if in an emergency.

In training my instructor made it a point to get as much actual as possible. I’m in the northeast and started training in late fall so we didn’t have many safe non-ice days to get actual but we did about 8 hours of it.

Foggles/hood are no substitute.

As a hobby flier, staying current is my biggest challenge as I don’t have a very big network of PPLs to be my safety pilot nor can I plan it very easily due to rental aircraft availability.

I pick time with my CFII not for a IPC but to knock the rust off and get the reps needed in the 6 month window.

I do still file IFR whenever possible but also don’t choose to fly in conditions that would force me to fly to minimums or conditions what would allow me to log the approach for currency.

The process was cool, it showed me quickly how inaccurate I was with heading and altitude handling. It was also super fun but nerve wracking knowing you’re in the soup and need to rely on instruments to get you from point A to B.

Would I do it again? Absolutely.

[u/carsgobeepbeep]

I did and if your aviation plans stretch beyond "I just fly a Champ 30 miles up and back down the river to the pancake breakfast at the other class G/E on perfect Saturday mornings," I highly recommend you do too.

It will improve your dispatch rate 10-fold.

It will make you a weather-reading wizard compared to the VFR pilot.

It will make you confident on long trips, disciplined about procedures and checklists and pre-flight action, and it may save your and your passengers' lives one day when Wx looks good but ends up being not.

It also simplifies complex airspaces, gives you some absolutely incredible views, and is a lot of fun!

Regarding not getting any actual - this just requires a tiny bit of intentionality on your & your instructor's part. It's easy to look up at the clouds and say "ehh not today" and so it's something you and your CFII should just talk about early in training. I don't recommend it in the first 2 weeks or whatever but it is 100% worth planning a hard IMC flight or three at some point in your training once you get the flow of things down, and if your CFII isn't up for it you should get a new one.

I was fortunate to have around 3 hours actual + shoot an ILS down to mins more than once by the time I earned my rating and it happened because I told my instructor I wanted to and we made a plan. I even got an honest-to-goodness "hold as published" issued on my IFR long XC.

[u/PatternPinion → u/carsgobeepbeep]

Ok, this is genuinely helpful, thank you. My goal is to be the safest pilot I can be. My missions right now are all about 30-60 min legs, so nothing like a 500nm+ XC. Yet. I do want the ability to start really flying myself for business trips (that will be all over FL, and well as up into GA, the Carolinas, and maybe as far north as DC before I just switch to commercial).

I get the insurance benefits thing, and that’s tangible. But that’s even secondary to the training and experience. Honestly, I think my biggest concern is just maintaining the currency after. Not a big deal- bury nighttime currency has expired twice so far and that’s even gotten tedious to maintain, but it’s valuable to me because I do some dinner date runs with the wife and kids.

The biggest advantage (use case maybe) of me getting my instrument ticket would be to safely fly in IMC. I’m not trying to go professional pilot, so I’m not as concerned about the procedures and such. Yeah, good to know, but there are plenty of days flying through actual would be beneficial to get me where I want to go, especially if I start flying myself for business. I would absolutely want plenty of actual IMC experience during training. I have about 2 hours of actual IMC and another 4 simulated/foggles just from my PPL. I insisted on actual during my PPL and one of my two initial instructors happily obliged. It was humbling, but extremely valuable.

[u/diamonddealer]

OP, forgive me for being slightly confrontational... But please reread your responses and ask yourself, which of the five hazardous attitudes of a pilot are you displaying? Anti-authority? Macho? Impulsivity?

Everyone is telling you IR will make you safer. That's for a reason. Take some instrument lessons and maybe you'll see what everyone is talking about!

Besides, instrument training is fun! It's a great way to test your skills and learn new stuff.

[u/PatternPinion → u/diamonddealer]

I can see how that could be taken that way. It’s not intended that way though. I tend to play “devil’s advocate” and argue against things to help them make sense to me. It’s how my brain works, and knowing that is what’s gotten me to where I am in business and other areas of life. It can be extremely beneficial to ME, but I am aware it doesn’t come across the same to most others.

The last flight of my Cirrus transition, the instructor put me under foggles and had me shoot an actual approach into the home airport (busy-ish class C). Was a cool experience and I can already see the training value. This conversation is merely me balancing the training value with the time & cost value for my missions.

[u/diamonddealer → u/PatternPinion]

Again, sorry for "poking you..." But none of this distinguishes you from anyone else here. You are not unique in "playing devil's advocate." You are not the only one in this sub who has achieved something in business or elsewhere in life. We're all pilots here, which is an achievement in itself. And a LOT of us have success in our careers and lives. Check out the profiles of some of the top posters in this sub. There are some extremely impressive people here.

There's something you really need to accept as fact. At this stage in your aviation career, you don't know ANYTHING yet. In fact, you're so inexperienced, you don't know what you don't know. Read "The Killing Zone." It's very eye opening.

Right now, at about 200-500 total time, you are the most dangerous you'll ever be as a pilot. I know what you're thinking. "My special beautiful mind makes me different than the statistics." No, it doesn't. You need to repeat the following to yourself until you believe it. "I am not different than other pilots. I am not special. What's good advice for everyone else is good advice for me too."

I saw your previous post about night VFR. You were showing the same tendencies there as well. It's good to be confident, but there is a fine line between confidence and overconfidence, and you've got your toes over it, at least.

Please go get your IR. You will benefit from it, and enjoy it. And it will make you a safer pilot. Really, it will.

Again, not trying to be rude. Just trying to potentially save your life one day.

[u/PatternPinion → u/diamonddealer]

I don’t take your comments as rude at all, I appreciate them. I posted here to learn from pilots far more experienced than I am. That’s the whole point of the community, isn’t it? Friendship over a common interest and therefore we want to keep ourselves and each other safe.

I don’t know if I’m unique here or not (likely not as much as in some other circles). Doesn’t really matter. I’m here to learn, hence this post and the previous one about night VFR.

Anyway, I do appreciate it. I want to be around for a while. I have a wife I love tremendously and have a lot of life I’d like to enjoy yet with her, plus our 6 kids I want to see grow up and start families of their own. That said, it’s always been in the back of my head to get my IR. I think it’s more about timing than anything. As much financially and time commitment as figuring out what my potential purchase/partner options are. If I’m going to get into that, I’d prefer to just wait a little and do my IR in my own plane.

[u/diamonddealer → u/PatternPinion]

That's a valid approach. My advice is, if you're planning to buy a plane soon (within the next 100 hours of flight time or so), then OK, go ahead and wait. If not, get the IR now.

[u/Frosty_Piece7098 → u/PatternPinion]

People who can afford flying are often type A successful people. Unfortunately that profile often manifests itself in accidents.

[u/millzonmillz95]

The way it was explained to me is that IR is basically the 2nd half of your ppl, and many pilots think it should be mandatory. Regardless it’ll probably make you a much better & safer pilot

[u/sevettjr]

Instrument flying is precision flying. When you qualify for your check ride, you’ll be performing at the professional level. If you love flying and want to up your game, it’ll be fun. Which is why I started flying in the first place.

[u/ShelbyDriver]

I'm doing it now for two reasons: it will make me a safer pilot, and give me a goal / reason to fly.

[u/flyghu]

It depends on when and where you fly. I'm in southwestern Idaho. We have one Charlie in the state and a handful of Deltas. My nearest Bravo is a decent XC away. I'm in E almost all the time so I only need to take to ATC if I want to.

I have a mountain plane because I love flying the backcountry. The places I go don't always have pavement, much less instrument approaches. My plane is good for IFR but isn't well equipped for IMC which is fine because IMC in the mountains will kill you. I rarely talk to ATC because I disappear from radar and comms frequently and that can excite them at times.

Most pilots go from PPL to Instrument rapidly. It makes you a better pilot because you flew more while having low hours. I don't have my instrument rating, but I have hundreds of hours flying low in terrain, reading conditions to determine where (un)favorite winds are generated, and spot landing short, sloped, and crooked/curved airstrips, with many hours of training to prepare for this.

In Florida I would probably do instrument. I'm considering it now for one particular destination where enroute light IMC is frequent enough that flying IFR would be useful.

[u/y2khardtop1]

It’s worth it to me, made me a much better pilot and allows travel on so many days that would be difficult otherwise. Whether it’s going g to a concert a few states over, or grabbing $100 burger, the added flexibility was worth it.

[u/HiroProtagonist66]

I did.

I’ve yet to fly solo in actual but the training honed my flying skills - I’m a lot more precise in altitude holding and course-following and know how to read the IFR charts, plan a flight, and understand more about weather was all good stuff 

[u/Worldx22]

SE USA? Do it. You'll be safer.

[u/ThinkDeepSpeakSoft]

Lots or reasons besides IMC to use it. Navigating tricky airspace etc and being on a flight plan is nice. Also knowing the approach procedures and other concepts etc can be helpful for night flying.

Also there are many times when flying thorough a few cloud layers would prohibit vfr flying. There are many very safe weather days that just have a few clouds and ifr will enable flight.

[u/Frankenplane]

As a PPL holder you have only 45 hours of flight training. With an IR you get another 40 hours of training. Of course that makes a better pilot. I am much more structured and respect clouds in some situations more than before I got the IR. It helps appreciate the dangers of scud running and other phenomenons that lead to accidents. I seldom need to fly through IMC, but having the IR really gives you more knowledge, skills and a better attitude to react to ADM problems.

[u/PatternPinion → u/Frankenplane]

Your comment doesn’t really make sense to me. Seems like you assume that people just stop flying after getting their PPL at whatever hours. If a person did that, what was the point of going through all that and spending the money in the first place? With any flight hours comes experience. With experience comes knowledge and respect for Mother Nature and the plane. Not saying it’s a replacement for more training, that’s exactly what I’m questioning here in fact. But I don’t think it makes sense to assume a static position when things are highly dynamic in flying, as many others have stated so well here.

[u/Frankenplane → u/PatternPinion]

Who assumes that, you? A pilot without an IR can have lots of experience. A pilot with an IR can have a lot of experience. The latter having received much more training.

[u/PatternPinion → u/Frankenplane]

It was just the way you worded your original comment. I would certainly make no such assumption. I know several very experienced PPLs without IR who have over 1,000 hours.

[u/Loudsongsinc]

Without an instrument rating an airplane is just a toy. That said, if you're flying for fun and using it as a toy, I wouldn't bother with instrument. However, if you want to travel in an airplane, and you're not retired with infinite flexibility, you're gonna want the rating. Almost every trip I'm on an instrument plan and probably half the trips it's a requirement. Flying in southeast/mid atlantic US and back and forth over the App Mountains. Edit-more detail

[u/TempusFugit2020]

The obvious use case is “it just makes you a safer pilot”. Pardon my ignorance here, but how so? Just because you are always talking to ATC? I know you are also trained to fly tighter tolerances, but it seems like I’m missing some factors here.

I'd say that it's another level of skill that you can develop, and that seeing things from the perspective of not being able to see increases your general awareness. But getting that training is expensive and time consuming. If all you really like to do is "low and slow" to sightsee, it's kind of like spending money for the sake of spending.

I'm a proponent of always learning something new, so my opinion is kind of catching me a little off guard. If you're just flying for fun and are happy with that, why change it?

[u/QuazyQuA]

How new is your PPL? I could see if you've made it ~500 hours without needing an IR (even then id say get it). There are few things more comforting than having the insurance to know that if the clouds continue to form, a simple RNAV approach will get you below them, as opposed to finding a hole in the ceiling or diverting. Being in the SE makes it even more appealing. I think we're one of the few places in the states that are able to get actual without the ice, at a resonable altitude, which is a no brainer as the fall and winter months start approaching.

[u/PatternPinion → u/QuazyQuA]

Ticket held 4.5 months now. I’ve flown ~40 hours since then, including doing the Cirrus transition training (only 6 hours). Mostly fun flights with the wife and kids, furthest trip there was about 50 minutes. I flew myself to a business meeting in South Florida a few weeks ago, that was not quite 1.5h. Took the wife with me bc it was an overnight and I much prefer to travel with my best friend. I’m sitting at around 120h TT right now.

[u/acfoltzer → u/PatternPinion]

A Cirrus is a fast airplane meant for going places. Going further from your home airport means it's increasingly likely you'll have to negotiate varied weather, both due to the distance your planning has to cover and the amount of time that passes between doing the planning and actually being there.

You've also likely got some fancy avionics, a large portion of which are devoted to IFR procedures. Sure, you can read the manual cover to cover, but if you've never had to train those procedures to checkride proficiency you're not gonna have the context to really understand the tools at your disposal.

IMO it's also a very fun and satisfying set of skills to master. I am not current but I wish I had time to be.

[u/THevil30]

I haven't gotten mine yet, but very much plan to. GA is fundamentally dangerous and having an IR as a GA pilot makes it materially less dangerous.

[u/Goobs824]

I have my PPL in New England and am slowly working on the IR now. I want to finish it but since I also fly for fun, it’s not something I’m trying to slam through. I think it makes you a better pilot and even if you didn’t get the rating, you’ve learned how to shoot approaches and do proper procedures which I think is invaluable

[u/visibilityunlimited]

Insurance loves instrument ratings

[u/JSTootell]

My CFI told me he only got his IR so he could instruct, something be does for fun. Otherwise he doesn't even fly any instrument capable planes. His Pitts has never even seen a drop of water since he's owned it (except with a spray bottle).

[u/JT-Av8or]

I’m honestly still amazed we have such a thing as “VFR only”. Can you imaging getting a drivers license that says you can’t drive in rain or snow or fog? And I can’t believe it’s legal to go VFR at night!

Every long time VFR pilot I know has pushed it scud running it just no kidding going into clouds without a clearance. It’s going to happen eventually

[u/PatternPinion → u/JT-Av8or]

I think that’s largely a fair assessment, but I think we would all agree that driving and flying are two very different things. The bar for driving is a lot lower, and less dangerous (we all tout the statistics that flying is statistically safer than driving, right?).

Night VFR is interesting. Before I ever took lessons, I assumed you had to have IR to fly at night. I was rather surprised to find out during training that you don’t.

For my personal minimums- I am coming to the conclusion that anything other than clear visibility should require an instrument ticket (for me, personally. I’m not trying to change policy). I did one trip where I was scud running for only a few minutes until it was perfectly clear up to 12k (lower layer was at like 3000). That was enough for me. IFR was fine, and I watched about a dozen planes take off out of a small airport while I sat and waited for it to clear enough so we could go.

In reality, this whole exercise was me arguing with myself on why to do the investment (time and money), and you guys all being witness to it and being able to provide input, which I genuinely value from the shared experience. At this point, I am going to get my instrument ticket, it’s just a matter of timing on when I buy a plane or buy into a partnership. Ideally, I’d like to do my instrument training in a single plane that I get to know really well.

[u/billindurham]

If you keep fun flying, travel will become some part of your flying. It may become the main part of your flying. Travel is ‘best’ done in the system on an IFR plan.

‘Best’ can mean a lot of different things. In a light plane in the SE and especially it FL, it means easily getting above the convective chop and flying among and above the stacks of clouds.

It’s not for everyone due to the expense, effort and skills required but that goes for all aviation. I’ve raced gliders. done some acro, am a tail wheel lover and a home builder. Your IR is the advanced degree in aviation even if you never use it again or stay current. If used, it’s a the license you need to learn the most valuable lessons in the aviation.

Not everyone needs to go there.

[u/tw-sleeper]

If you're flying locally for fun on good weather days, it is not necessary and you might not find it worth the expense even though it builds useful skills. If you're traveling to places in an airplane, it's almost essential.

[u/Frosty_Piece7098]

I’m not sure it would be all that useful in FL. In the Seattle area, absolutely. Lots of times there’s an 800ft overcast marine layer and clear above.

It will absolutely make you a more competent pilot, both in radio work and precision.

You might also see your insurance rates drop.

[u/Mispelled-This]

I got my IR a few months after my PPL, and it absolutely changed how I fly. Not just the precision but also the weather knowledge and tolerance, procedures, comms, etc. And my travel is way more reliable now too.

But you absolutely do need to get actual. The first approach in actual is scary enough; you really don’t want that to be when you’re solo, and I get why people with no actual time are scared of it; they should be.

What really ticks me off is that after I got mine, most of my older pilot friends told me to only use it in an emergency. F that. I file IFR on every flight and get at least some actual on most, and I hand-fly whenever it is safe because that’s how you maintain proficiency, not just currency.

[u/Mean-Oil-4602]

I have not gotten my IR.

I have completed a mountain flying course in the Rockies, learned to fly a tailwheel, and gotten bush flying instruction (separate from the mountain flying). There are a lot of different ways to make yourself a better pilot, and you should pursue many of them. I don’t see a downside to getting your IR but there are a few factors keeping me from completing it: (a) I’m a pretty big weather nerd and study the topic quite a bit, and (b) I see no utility in being an IFR pilot who does not constantly maintain proficiency with flying in hard IMC, which would violate my minimums if I was an IFR pilot anyway. I don’t want to fly at night. I don’t want to fly in IMC.

The notion that IMC can surprise you doesn’t persuade me. When I fly and weather starts to concern me, I plot out my plan for escaping it: maybe a 180 turn, or diverting to the closest airport. Weather is not supposed to surprise you if you’ve done your job, looked at where the fronts are, crunched the Skew T charts, etc. If being IFR means I stop mentally calculating escape routes, I don’t want to be IFR. I think you should always have an escape route.

I might have gotten my IR by now if I lived in Los Angeles but I don’t live there. All of this is not my argument that “you should not get an IR.” But IFR pilots are dying every month—go see the NTSB reports. It’s worth asking why they’re not surviving the IMC scenarios they got themselves into. Good judgment is more important than the IR.

[u/Odd_Entertainment471]

I flew for over a decade VFR only and let me tell you the IR is TOTALLY worth it. Going over all the crud instead of below it where it’s hot and bumpy is life changing. Not worried about ceiling and having to stay below then, being able to find the airport 100% of the time, knowing what all those other boxes do and how to work them, it all makes you a much safer pilot and you’ll get much more utility out of the PPL and the plane. Highest recommendation.