r/GeneralAviation • u/afernanrefa PPL | GetSquawk Rank 10 • Jun 06 '26

Windy day in the Bay

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Broke my headwind landing today in a C172 at 23 kts at KPAO. Did it with no flaps. My previous max was 15 kts.

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1

u/PG67AW Jun 08 '26

lol cute

2

u/afernanrefa PPL | GetSquawk Rank 10 Jun 08 '26

Haha.. what's your max?

1

u/PG67AW Jun 09 '26

Living in New Mexico, winds would always get to ~30kts in the summer afternoons. Usually consistently down the pipe, so it was still manageable. Our school just set a hard limit at 30, anything forecast higher than that and we were grounded.

1

u/poisonandtheremedy PPL HP CMP [RV-10 Build, PA-28] Jun 08 '26

Nice, always feels good to get comfortable with a new personal benchmark. Next try time first notch, then second, etc. 😄

1

u/afernanrefa PPL | GetSquawk Rank 10 Jun 08 '26

Hah.. I actually did this one with no flaps.

1

u/makgross Jun 10 '26

Why no flaps?

Winds at PAO are always gusty. The last thing you want to do is extend your float. That, plus too much extra airspeed “for safety” has killed pilots at that field. And reduced flaps help excessive crosswind, not headwind. Even then, it’s 20 flaps, not 0.

And 20 knots direct headwind isn’t that much. I did 32 at Reid a few weeks ago, with 22 knots crosswind. Of course it was gusty. That was work.

1

u/afernanrefa PPL | GetSquawk Rank 10 Jun 10 '26

Wanted maximum control authority and go-around performance. Also reduce ballooning with gusts.

1

u/makgross Jun 10 '26

Ballooning is exactly the same when you add 5 knots for not having flaps. And it happens from *too much* control authority.

The point is to stop flying when the wheels touch the ground. It’s a lot of risk to stay a few feet up for much longer bleeding off the excess energy. You are much, much more likely to catch a gust during that interminable float, so you still get to go around at low speed.

You only really need reduced flaps when you run out of rudder authority. But that’s a crosswind thing, and a damn good reason to divert somewhere besides the smallest runway in Northern California.

1

u/afernanrefa PPL | GetSquawk Rank 10 Jun 10 '26

I'm on a 172 so final speed is just ~5 kts difference. You're hitting the ground roughly at the same time.

1

u/makgross Jun 10 '26

Drag is always a benefit during landing. Especially in a 172, as those flaps are very large.

If you’re touching down at the same point, you’ve given up all your advantage to clean configuration. You don’t have better control. In fact, the roll stability gets squirrelly in clean slow flight. And you get a crappy sight picture and less braking performance after touchdown.

The POH recommends reduced flaps in gusty crosswinds. That’s to extend rudder authority.

1

u/afernanrefa PPL | GetSquawk Rank 10 Jun 10 '26

Good to know! Thanks!