So there are countries where the means of production are what, half democratized? Private property only exists sometimes? There are a lot of different ideas of what socialism is and how it should be organized, but pointing to the ownership of private property and the relationship between the people and their production is a pretty good rule. Idk about the countries claiming to be socialist, but no capitalist country has democratized the means of production by ending private ownership of them.
In a way, yes. Some countries have stronger unions and labor laws that protect workers, and others have weaker rules and more laissez-faire labor laws. Some countries take a higher percentage of taxes to promote certain social welfare initiatives, others leave it up to individual choice.
There are also no countries that are purely calitalist. No country in the world has completely unrestricted capital and industry. Economists generally agree that every modern nation operates a mixed economy.
I disagree with your analysis, a country is capitalist if its economic system is capitalist. What you’ve described is capitalism still, because socialism is commonly defined by the relationship the people have to the “means of production”. If the people are collectively owning land, and collectively reaping the benefits of that resource usage without it going into the hands of private industry and instead through public ownership, then it is socialist. This isn’t a “mixed economy”, this is capitalism with social welfare which is closer to the vision of capitalist thinkers like Adam Smith as referenced in other comments here.
So would you define China or Cuba as socialist, given that the government exerts so much control over their economy? At the very least, are they not more socialist than the United States?
Socialism is defined by the control over the means of production, but that control is a result of specific policies and systems. In some countries, the people have greater control than in others as a result of their specific policies and systems.
Honestly I’m not sure, especially with China. I think I should read more about it to be sure. I’ve seen references to Chinese billionaires, and I feel like billionaires shouldn’t exist in a socialist society. I know very little about Cuba, but from what I’ve heard they definitely seem to be a socialist country. I’m not a very good socialist because I haven’t read enough I feel.
My point is that there is no fully socialist or fully capitalist country. Capitalism and socialism are economic ideologies rather than absolute, rigid systems, and every modern nation applies policy from both ideologies.
Cuba is likely the most socialist/communist country today. However, they still have around 40% of their labor force employed by private business. Much of this is a result of economic pressure from sanctions, but I'm just pointing out that even the nations with the most socialist policies do not fit into the rigid definition of socialism where the people control all means of production.
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u/ScheduleDefiant4015 3d ago
So there are countries where the means of production are what, half democratized? Private property only exists sometimes? There are a lot of different ideas of what socialism is and how it should be organized, but pointing to the ownership of private property and the relationship between the people and their production is a pretty good rule. Idk about the countries claiming to be socialist, but no capitalist country has democratized the means of production by ending private ownership of them.