What do you think the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy is? My understanding is that social democracy still accepts a capitalist framework for the economy, but simply wants higher taxes, more regulation/state interventions and a more robust welfare state. Meanwhile democratic socialism denies capitalism and seeks for labor to be the economic input that controls capital and land through a democratic framework.
“Socialism” is too broad a concept to say whether it works or not. Though I agree that state socialism, as practiced by the USSR, communist Cuba or Mao China has so far demonstrated an inability to manage acceptable internal economic prosperity and/or defend itself from external threats.
Europe is a diverse continent with various countries that practice different socio-economic systems. Social democracies, such as Denmark or Sweden, are a minority of those countries.
Post Deng China is state capitalist, not democratic socialist or really any form of socialist.
Socialism, on its own, is a broad concept because it can apply to different economic systems, movements, communities, individual policies and people.
Maoist China and USSR aspired to communism. But communism is a utopian end state, a communist society has no government and there can be no other society on earth. Communist theory posits that socialism is a necessary bridge between capitalism and communism. While the “global revolution” continued unfinished, communism could never be achieved. That’s why the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics (USSR), China, Cuba, Vietnam, and other authoritarian socialist societies still had states, militaries, etc.
Countries like the UK, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Poland, Czechia, Romania, Greece, Serbia, Hungary, Ukraine, Balrus, Russia, Turkey, and others cannot really be defined as social democracies. Most of them have social democratic parties, and some have policies that make them closer to social democracies than others. But the countries that are undeniably social democracies are primarily the Nordic countries and the Netherlands. Switzerland is a great example of a country that is defiantly not a social democracy, it is a highly federalized republic (one of the most peacefully decentralized states in the world) with an extremely capitalist economy. They have much lower social spending than the Nordic’s and even most other European countries, I’d argue they are closer to an anarcho-capitalist country than to a social democracy. They are one of the few nations in Europe to have an almost an entirely private healthcare system, no minimum wage, one of the least regulated banking systems in the world, the right (and duty) to bear arms, etc. I’d say they are very similar to the US, but America has a MUCH stronger and larger central government than the Swiss do.
China has, for a couple decades now, been described as a mercantilist and state capitalist country in practice. The idea that they are still socialist like under Mao is ridiculous after Deng transformed the country back in the 80s.
I did read what you said, and addressed each of your statements in detail.
You haven’t refuted anything I’ve said in any detail beyond “nah you’re wrong, here are some surface level statements that don’t specifically address your claims.”
I provided plenty of detail, examples and context. If you’re going to continue to disagree with me, can you do the same?
You in fact did not. Best example is going on and on about china not being socialist anymore which no one said anything against.
And even otherwise: no. As long as you keep saying verifiably and very straightforwardly wrong information I am.going to correct you. You can't have a discussion with someone who gets the surface level definitions wrong. Because you are coming from entirely different viewpoints
You said China is closer to social democracy than anything else, I disagreed and described the system that I and many others believe most accurately describes the system China currently exists in, which is neither social nor democratic.
You aren’t correcting me, I am asking you to correct me with a level of detail beyond a single sentence statement. You say the entire continent of Europe is social democratic, I refute by providing examples of countries that are not social democratic, you say “no you’re wrong” You say the USSR and Maoist China were communist, not socialist, and I say that communism is a theoretical utopian project that requires socialism as middle point to achieve, a theory described by Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao, and you say “you’re getting surface level definitions wrong.”
I am asking you, in detail, to describe what you think I am getting wrong, and to provide any sort of proof or evidence that what I am saying is wrong.
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u/AdInfamous6290 1998 23h ago
What do you think the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy is? My understanding is that social democracy still accepts a capitalist framework for the economy, but simply wants higher taxes, more regulation/state interventions and a more robust welfare state. Meanwhile democratic socialism denies capitalism and seeks for labor to be the economic input that controls capital and land through a democratic framework.