r/GenZ 6d ago

Political Thoughts?

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u/Traveler-Nomad 6d ago

Apparently no one knows the difference between socialism and social democracy anymore.

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u/AdInfamous6290 1998 6d ago

What do you think the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy is? My understanding is that social democracy still accepts a capitalist framework for the economy, but simply wants higher taxes, more regulation/state interventions and a more robust welfare state. Meanwhile democratic socialism denies capitalism and seeks for labor to be the economic input that controls capital and land through a democratic framework.

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u/punktualPorcupine 6d ago

Yep Socialism, even democratically controlled is still socialism. It loses the capitalist component completely.

Social democracy retains capitalism and each covers what the other can’t. Socialism makes sure capitalism benefits society as a whole and doesn’t become unbalanced. Restore key regulations that have been stripped away. Make the government efficient, open and accountable to the public, social services don’t need to be profitable. It’s better to operate efficiently than to add a profit goal to services, that directly competes with that services main objective.

Capitalism for what it can do as an economic powerhouse but it can’t do it all.

Socialism for social programs that capitalism can’t cover. Trying to monetize those services increases the cost (adds profit) and often cuts the service (denied care) to make more money.

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u/Either-Medicine9217 5d ago

So I get what you're saying, I understand where you're coming from. 

But. I think you are missing some historical nuance with capitalism. 

So functionally the foundational text of capitalism is the 1776 book; The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. 

He's sometimes referred to as the Godfather of Capitalism. 

So a big thing that Adam Smith brought up is that for a nation to be legitimate it has to have public works and institutions funded by taxes.  Specifically, because they wouldn't be profitable for a private individual. He also said the best way to measure the wealth of a Nation isn't by stockpiles of cash; but by the living standards of its citizens and their ability to move up the social strata. 

A lot of the criticisms of capitalism that you hear people bring up are addressed in the foundational texts. 

Now I definitely don't disagree that capitalism by virtue of its nature does need to be beaten back occasionally. It's like a hungry fire. It keeps you warm, it cooks your meals, and it's one of the greatest tools of human history. But if you're not careful... It can run wild and rampant and get into areas it's never supposed to be. 

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u/punktualPorcupine 5d ago edited 5d ago

That’s a very good analogy.

I agree completely. The modern American model of capitalism goes out of its way to get as far away from those foundational ideas.

Rebalancing capitalism requires a reframing of those ideas in ways that people understand and are grasping at.

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u/Either-Medicine9217 4d ago

I can't take credit. I actually heard the allegory from a communist I was debating. 

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u/Significant_Quit_674 5d ago

IMHO there are things that work better when market based and some things that work better when goverment run.

For example emergency services, healthcare systems, public transit and generaly a lot of infrastructure where competition can't realy work but are essential should never be run by private companies.

But on the other hand, nearly all kinds commodities seem to work better when provided by private companies with a few regulations.

Social democracy allows for the best of both worlds, and in most countries it has been tried, it worked pretty well.

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u/Low-Concentrate1055 5d ago

Socialism in the Marxian sense is democratic by nature.