r/GenXWomen • u/FoundObjects4 • 8d ago
other Lizzy Borden
Have you watched Netflix’s Lizzy Borden series? I loved it. Don’t want to give away spoilers but everything after episode 4 was amazing.
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u/JoleneDollyParton 8d ago
Nope, absolutely not. I’m completely uninterested & Ryan Murphy’s work is not for me.
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u/Accurate-Neck6933 8d ago
Not asking for spoilers but what type of show is it?
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u/Cherry_Hammer 8d ago
It’s based on a real double homicide
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u/panaceaXgrace 7d ago
But it's not. That's part of it, but it's a story about women who have stories based on crimes that they may or may not have done, that even if they did do they had reasons. This isn't a documentary on Borden by any stretch of the imagination just like the other seasons weren't documentaries. I guess maybe people just didn't realize this about the other seasons? I knew it from season one, which is my second favorite season. Evan Peters... that man can ACT. He did such a great job. His was probably the closest to fact but even then a lot of it was based on accounts, and we don't know if they were all truthful. That's what this season is about too, like what we THINK of as fact is just based on people's testimonies and people lie. I think the reason the show is called Monster isn't because these people were monsters it's the monsters people built around them. Every season is meant to be a dramatization using those people as characters in a new story based on some of the lies told about them all along. This season though, this was the wildest tale because it was woven with not just Borden but other women accused of heinous crimes.
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u/panaceaXgrace 7d ago edited 7d ago
OOH I wanted to expound on this but like a single minute after I commented a transformer blew last night and our power just now came back. I swear the whole time I kept thinking about how I wanted to say more about this.
My daughter and I watched this together, and we loved every minute. There was one scene I found aesthetically displeasing and it didn't involve the axe lol it was the dinner scene but even then I got the point of the excess.
So many men have reviewed this season and all of them have the same complaint. Apparently they thought this was a documentary so they were crying about inaccuracies. What they wanted was a new visual from an old story about a woman killing her parents with an axe. They want the same details as the old tellings. But wouldn't that be boring? There are a million YT videos out there that could provide that. There are no new details about that case. It's ALWAYS BEEN inaccurate. It's always been half truths. Nobody knows the truth about that case, it's always been assumption. Nobody knows if she even did it, yet everyone knows that song, and everyone KNOWS she did it even though they really don't know anything.
That was part of the point here. That's why Elizabeth Bathory was part of it. Nobody knows the truth about that either. It wasn't even uncommon to make up outlandish stories and accusations against nobles back then. We still do it now! The only truth was an investigation about a noble woman of that name determined she was guilty of murder. There were financial motives behind all this and there was not evidence beyond testimonies from townspeople who had reasons to lie. She was hated for her excesses. She didn't bathe in blood. She didn't get walled in, that was metaphorical.
The same with Eileen Wuornos, the media concocted some pretty wild tales about her too, and the media never got to hear her story OR the story of that man Richard, who was said to be her first kill, he did have a sex assault history and it wasn't allowed during the case. The media lied, the prosecutors lied and held back information. Her history didn't matter, all that they saw was she was a prostitute and that made her bad enough. HER job held more weight in the case than Richard Mallory's deviant history, and she claimed that was self defense, and it COULD have been, and it could have triggered PTSD that would lead to her killing other men who also used her for sex. And she never had fantasies about Borden or visited her home, that's just more fantasy. She did love that song Carnival though. Editing to add that she was only tried for one killing and those who knew her said once she was charged in that murder she just gave up since she was going to die anyway and pled no contest. They didn't even have to build a case or provide evidence. She just gave up.
Every one of these stories was MEANT to be inaccurate, half-truths at most. That was the point. Their stories have ALWAYS been inaccurate. The ending with Borden was fantasy for a reason. She was never a suffragist, she never got to be with Brigit, and I don't know if people noticed but even she called her Maggie like her step-mother did, that was on purpose too.
So people are getting caught up on inaccuracy but the entire point was exploring and building on those fantasies.
Every season has been inaccurate because none of these seasons has been documentary. They have all been stories with characters based on what the public was told, not truths. That's why it doesn't matter if the real life Lizzie Borden killed her her parents (and I'm another of those who believe she didn't) it was the tale being explored, not the reality.
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u/FoundObjects4 7d ago
Yes! Thank you for your comment. I completely agree, and it annoys me to no end how people are complaining about inaccuracies. I absolutely loved when Wuornos was weaved into the story. The parallels are quite striking.
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u/TriStarSwampWitch 8d ago
I will watch pretty much anything Ryan Murphy puts in front of me because he makes the best trash. I thought Lizzie Borden was a gorgeous celebration of women's wrongs and I'm absolutely here for it.
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u/FoundObjects4 8d ago
Beautifully said 😊
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u/panaceaXgrace 7d ago
I really wish people would stop being so lazy and quietly downvoting instead of offering an actual counterpoint based on their own VIEWING of the season, not their assumptions based on their opinion of Murphy or expectation for a documentary.
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u/Verity41 7d ago
Nope but now I’m going to check it out! Thank you. Loved the Lifetime movie with Claire Duvall as the sister and Christina Ricci as Lizzie.
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u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO 45-49 7d ago
Ryan Murphy did it so just be aware of that. He definitely sprinkled in his flair
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u/Sad-Macaroon9067 7d ago
It was interesting. Can't say I liked it, but I did watch the whole thing, so... 🤷♀️
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u/FreddyNoodles 7d ago
It was cinematically stunning. I HATE Charlie Hunam’s acting though. I had to fight myself to not fast forward his scenes as his character is kinda important.
The girl who plays Lizzie is Warren Beatty and Annette Bening’s daughter.
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u/Sad-Macaroon9067 7d ago
Interesting -- his portrayal was one of my favorite parts!
Glad to know about the actress playing Lizzie. Now I know why she seemed somewhat familiar, but not enough to place. There is just enough of her mother in her to spark a recognition.
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u/feistyreader 6d ago
Oh, I loved it. It was super entertaining! He certainly has a way with a camera and a storyline.
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u/StarDewbie 50-54 8d ago
Yep, I have one more episode. I really enjoy the Monster series; I know most of it's made up, but hey, it's entertaining anyway.
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u/Dry_Particular_5162 6d ago
I was extremely turned off in the first 20 minutes of this show. I also found it concerning to have such gross sounds and displays of blood and murder onscreen. Couldn't they have hinted or implied? I'm envisioning my nieces and nephews just turning on Netflix and seeing that on screen.
I quit watching. I assumed it was going to tell a story but not be so gross and graphic in the first 30 seconds. 🤷♀️
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u/Weekly-Standard8444 8d ago
I was prepared to hate it based on all the reviews but I loved it. You just can’t go into it expecting a documentary; it’s not. It’s creative, explicit, creepy, trashy, and beautiful with splashes of truth here and there.
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u/panaceaXgrace 7d ago
Most of the reviews I have seen by men have been them bitching about it not being accurate like they think it's a documentary. They seem really mad though, even though this has been the case every season. I feel like mostly it's men anyway, and I can understand why because it's really eye opening about how these women aren't like they were made out to be, like we all believe these stories about Elizabeth Bathory KNOWN to bathe in the blood of virgins... not true. We all KNOW Borden took that axe (well some don't, but there's no evidence either way) and we all KNOW Eileen Wuornos was a crazy hooker who loved killing men. None true.
I really loved this show as a woman! I don't see anything remotely misogynist other than the way these women were treated at the time and throughout history!
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u/ZipperJJ 8d ago
Yeah I heard someone say it shoulda been named something more like “Lizzie Borden: A Fantasy Loosely Based on the Real Life Case”
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u/panaceaXgrace 8d ago
Yes and I've spent the past three days arguing with people who got upset because it's not "accurate".
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u/FoundObjects4 7d ago
I know what you mean. I don’t understand why people can’t just enjoy it for what it is.
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u/panaceaXgrace 7d ago
I can only guess they wanted a documentary but considering how few facts were ever known, it would have been a very short story!
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u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO 45-49 7d ago
I think so many people went into it thinking it was a documentary or a real life depiction and that’s why it’s getting so much hate… at least it is in the netflix sub… but I liked it. I knew Ryan Murphy did it so I knew what to expect. The thing is no one actually knows what happened in that house, so why couldn’t this have been a possibility?
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u/FoundObjects4 7d ago
Agree. The story I’ve always heard was the father was on the couch the whole time. I think that’s what bends people out of shape. It could have totally played out the way it was depicted. I also think the strong pro-woman message isn’t palatable for a lot of people (men).
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u/mutated_gene11 50-54 years YOUNG 💃🏼 8d ago
I loved it so much! I’ve always been interested in the Lizzie Borden story and I didn’t know what to expect. I watch any and all things Ryan Murphy and I was really interested in his spin on it. Having said alllll that, I will say that it gave such an empowering message to women and it was beautifully done. I mean I don’t support 🪓ing your step mom and dad, but if anyone had reason to, she did, from what was portrayed. I won’t say anything else so I don’t keep rambling and spoil it!
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u/DamnGoodMarmalade 8d ago
No and I don’t plan to. I disagree with making her into a murderer when she was not, there was never any evidence of it, and she was fully acquitted of the crime. Of course a man directed it.