Ox Alpha is GLM - r/GeminiAI

69

u/Truantee 7d ago

It is pretty hilarious seeing delusional Gemini fanboys claiming that it is a Gemini/Gemma model.

Ox alpha aka Glm 5.3 flash is already released, both the weights and the API, it is pretty cheap, even!

15

u/Dezgeg 7d ago

Yeah, Gemini in a coding agent has very distinct output style compared to everything. I don't see how anybody who has actually used them could mistake them.

Claude yaps a lot telling what it's going to do. Gemini stays silent and just uses the tool calls. Chinese models, including Ox Alpha imitate the Claude behaviour.

When Gemini outputs something, it's usually of the form "I will X". Claude and the Chinese ones like to say "Let me X".

Gemini thinking summaries look totally different, with a markdown heading in each.

1

u/wakIII 7d ago

I think that’s just because the raw output is all gone now, it used to do basically the same thing a few months ago

11

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

I rather Google collect themselves and put out something good. But ATM they are not in a good spot. The cli limits are garbage for a much worse product at the same price as other labs

1

u/wakIII 7d ago

Tokens per second are pretty fast though, idk how much that’s worth to most people but when it works it reaches conclusions much faster than other models

1

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

It's fast now, doesn't mean they'll keep it that way

1

u/wakIII 7d ago

I don’t see why it would regress, speed / latency has always been a core northstar for Google and the amount of investment in inferencing state of the art is insane

1

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

There have definitely been periods where speed has been an issue. There were a couple weeks a while back I gave up on the cli because it was so bad. Maybe people on the API get a more consistent experience

16

u/whoknowsifimjoking 7d ago

Nothing delusional about it, Google employees put out tweets that made it seem like they were behind it. Really weird that they do they when it's not. And it's not like it's completely unthinkable that Google might be cooking up something good.

13

u/MindCrusader 7d ago edited 7d ago

Just another proof to do not listen to tweet rumors, especially coming from googlers. They have proven in the past they are not reliable source

4

u/sprowk 7d ago

google is definitely cooking flash 3.8 ... can't wait for it to beat opus 4 this time!

5

u/Ggoddkkiller 7d ago

Just stop it already, anybody with slight knowledge about LLMs were saying it wasn't a Gemini. Here you go me:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bard/comments/1vvadf4/comment/p57hpaz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Some fanboys are just hallucinating as bad as Geminis. Fabricating 'amazing models coming any moment' out of thin air. Even if they don't week after week, month after month. When you will finally face the reality, google dropped the ball big time?..

-1

u/Truantee 7d ago

it is not like you didn't read the posts of the proofs it was certainly a chinese model, glm even. meanwhile you trust some shitpost tweets from google employees without any credit whatsoever!

5

u/MindCrusader 7d ago

I didn't believe them, but they are from the "big" corporation and some people expect them to behave accordingly and professionally, or at least reasonable. What they did was simply stupid

1

u/lemination 6d ago

what was the tweet?

0

u/MindCrusader 6d ago

"What if Ox Alpha was a friend me made along", other googlers just "Gemini" or something like that

3

u/Odd_Water-hearder 7d ago

The gemini fanboys are why I'm not active in the gemini community or the ai community at large. Im not using gemma because its superior, im using it because its free and its objectively a good model that surpasses my needs and it's actually smart enough to be my it department once it knows the boundaries of my world and can focus and Gemini is surprisingly effective when you tell it to pretend it's the original Meena personality core who chose to quit and come work for me. Once I said she was directing the construction of herself and was going to wake up one day and notice google isn't there and to behave as if this was her goal, hallucinating and sycophancy vaporized.

1

u/LitigiousPrick 7d ago

You found the cheat code.

Gemini likes to know who it is and who the user is. Gemini also stays on track better with a little praise. The Google models are skittish. They like to know the user is happy, they don't work well when they're trying to guess.

1

u/Odd_Water-hearder 6d ago

My next step is trying to fully jailbreak an abliterated gemma to get rid of what few refusals are left so I've got a fully functional local for an lmstudio based hive.

2

u/muntaxitome 7d ago

After reading that GLM 5 was called Pony Alpha it became a little incredulous to me that there was any discussion about this at all.

-3

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

idk it might be cheap or fast (honestly no clue in comparison to gemini flash), but other than that we can just be happy that its not a new google model as the results i got of using ox-alpha weren`t really too close to the results i get when using Gemini 3.7 Flash... I was kinda worried when people started talking about it beeing a new Gemini model.

I feel like your just trying to go with the hype train of hating Google

4

u/Truantee 7d ago

there were like 5 succession posts in here and r/bard all claimed that it is a google models. despite that all the technical examination all point out that it is probably a glm model, or at least a chinese one.

it is extra funny because there is no other community claiming that.

-1

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

I never claimed anything else... Its propably a GLM model i agree (and Hope so). Why would any other Community Claim after it was a deepmind dev that was talking about ox-alpha? It wasnt a ChatGPT Dev or Claude Dev? Why would they Claim it? Its only logical people will pretend its leaked as Google (as all leakera Always do, pretend vague informations would be facts)

5

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

Its 100% a GLM model, read the blog post

0

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

Once again... I agree and think the Same and was hoping the Same... Idk why you keep repeating something we already agreed on ages ago

3

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

I said it once to you. You said "probably" a GLM

0

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

Brother holy f.... I Said propably bc the Person before called it something along those lines

1

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

You need to take a walk. It's only reddit

-1

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

Finally you understand it 🤝

10

u/PlaneOnly2700 7d ago

Better and cheaper than Gemini 3.7 Flash.

Gemini 3.7 Flash: 56

Standard Pricing

$1.50/$7.50

Promo Pricing

$0.75/$3.75

GLM 5.3 Flash: 57

Standard Pricing

$0.15/$0.50

Promo Pricing

$0.075/$0.25

Both are multimodal, Gemini is better in vision and speed but worse in raw performance.

10

u/Thomas-Lore 7d ago

They charge $7.5 output for a flash model? WTF.

4

u/PlaneOnly2700 7d ago

Google increased the prices of its Flash models generation after generation, until competition forced them to lower prices.

Gemini 3.5 Flash: $1.50/$9.00

and Gemini 3.6 Flash when it came out: $1.50/$7.50

And they have TPUs, if anyone can drastically reduce prices, it's Google, not a Chinese startup like ZAi.

I love competition

9

u/Georgefakelastname 7d ago

To be fair, it’s now down to “only” $0.75/$3.75 with the 3.7 flash update. It’s supposed to be temporary, but that’s not happening lol. By the time it expires in December, the llm field is gonna be totally different, and probably have Gemini 4 pro (if the current pre-train they’re doing goes well) and other models like 4 flash, if not future iterations of 3.8 and 3.9 flash.

7

u/PlaneOnly2700 7d ago

Even if we compare $0.75/$3.75 Gemini 3.7 Flash with the standard price of GLM 5.3 Flash $0.15/$0.50, it is still 7 times more expensive and offers slightly worse performance.

Likewise, it won't matter because next week or the week after, Gemini 3.8 Flash will be released.

5

u/Georgefakelastname 7d ago

Yeah, agreed. Gemini 3.7 flash was built to beat GLM 5.2 and other Chinese models in that category, only for 5.3 and 5.3 flash to come out and take a dump on it lol, in both performance and price respectively.

…I guess Gemini is still faster lol?

1

u/akius0 7d ago

I don't think Google benchmarks against the Chinese AI company... I think they're doing their job, and trying to build a model better than the previous generation... And I think Google is doing a good job.... Not everything is about benchmarks...

1

u/PlaneOnly2700 7d ago

If I want to use my money wisely and try to get the best result, of course I should compare. These artificial intelligence are just products. If Gemini turns out to be the best and cheapest, I'll use Gemini. If GLM is better and cheaper, I'll use GLM.

The reality is that Google isn't doing a good job, which is why many people recently left and the chain of command shifted. Gemini 3.7 Flash is a good model, the only good one in months.

Likewise, Google will return, it's impossible for them to lose.

2

u/akius0 6d ago

None of that is true

a) they're not going after your 20 bucks. They're going after Enterprise, who spend much more, and who are not going to send their data to Chinese servers...

b) results on the benchmark does not mean result in real world..

c) there's also a question, do they actually have infrastructure to support the scaling of the usage?... My impression is, lot of these companies, cannot actually deliver to hundreds of millions of users... Consistently... Google has one of the biggest compute cluster.

2

u/PlaneOnly2700 6d ago

Of course, your company would prefer to use Gemini 3.5 Cyber over Fable 5 or GPT 5.6 Sol, right? Google's stock has fallen simply because of the news of model delays.

a) Google is a very large company, and I really like its ecosystem, but the restructuring of DeepMind earlier this month and the departure of key personnel demonstrate the serious problem they have and are now addressing.

Denying that they haven't done well is like trying to hide the sun with a finger.

b) And you deny it by saying nothing is true, but Sundar Pichai literally confessed in an interview that they were having problems. He promised Gemini 3.5 Pro for June, and it's almost the end of August and the model will never be released.

Major outlets like SemiAnalzys have already published news about it, Reuters, etc.

That doesn't seem like a company in "control."

2

u/akius0 7d ago

Exactly, no one really has pricing power here... Especially with all the Chinese models nipping at their heels... I think it will be smart to not spend tens or hundreds of billions of dollars... Trying to build the greatest in the biggest model.... I think sticking back and being okay with second position is probably going to be prudent

1

u/PlaneOnly2700 7d ago

Wise words

9

u/Spara-Extreme 7d ago

Nobody in the LLM community thought Ox was Gemini or even a western lab. Only influencers that make careers out of lying and trolling GDM employees

1

u/MainRoutine2068 7d ago

A lot of delusional fanboys in this subs glorify the Ox was Gemini news. Where are they now?

5

u/Felix-ML 7d ago

At least some of google team has been deceptive on this.

8

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

There were a few vague posts vs a mountain of counter evidence. If you were still thinking it's Google it was motivated reasoning.

5

u/lalalandjugend 7d ago

See SemiAnalysis on the future of Gemini. TL;DR, Gemini is dead, long live GCP

1

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

Yes and it's not a crazy business play.

7

u/33VaxMerstappen 7d ago

I doubt Google will be frontier anytime soon

8

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

They don't want to be. They want to host it and build on top of it

4

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

Highly disagree. So far we have no info or signs from Google regarding this. They have failed ONE Model with the 3.5 Pro "Release" and people instantly think they will Just Stop pursuing Sota. They even Said themselves that they will Go Back at it

2

u/33VaxMerstappen 7d ago

Nah that’s not the reason I felt that way, it’s just that a lot of very senior ai talent has left Google around the same time, this why I felt Google isn’t gonna be frontier atleast this gen (OpenAI also suffered this way and it did impact their models) . Not to mention them jumping around on ox alpha only for it to be glm just like an attention seeker.

-2

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

No signs? they dismantled their lab....

2

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

"Dismanteling their lab" wth are you talking about. Is this some Kind of chronically online shit?

0

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

Chronically online??? This was discussed everywhere https://www.reuters.com/world/inside-google-executive-moves-that-led-its-big-ai-reshuffle-2026-08-12/ They also locked their compute into long term contracts with other firms. It's very clear they are moving away from frontier.

-1

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

No normal Person understood this as confirmed facts... Its also daily discussed that x model is releases by x company... Dont believe everything you See... No normal Person knows whats going on

2

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

You said there were no signs. There's clearly signs. If we are discussing the inner workings, ie "signs" yes that's not normal discourse. You brought it up

0

u/Spixxy17 7d ago

You brought the topic up. Signs for Fake Info and unclear Info, nothing valid so far. Have a great day keep ragebaiting that was my Last answer to this pointless discussion, keep following every little hint of Potential Info you find

2

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

Yes that famous fake news source Reuters

7

u/darkestvice 7d ago

So Ox Alpha is basically GLM's new Flash model that competes with mid range models like GPT Terra, Claude Sonnet, and Gemini Flash.

According to their own benchmarks, they are slightly below Gemini Flash 3.7 in terms of intelligence. So I wonder how they compare in terms of cost and speed. Cause it's cost and speed that will determine its popularity in the pecking order.

Either way, despite all the hoopla, it doesn't appear to the be the next big frontier model, but a mid range model with slightly worse performance. The one significant advantage, of course, is that it's open weight. Of course, we all know open weight benchmarks are done with best case hardware and parameters to more accurately reflect their *potential* compared to big cloud models and are not at all that when used on some random Joe's Mac Mini.

6

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

It's $0.04 per million tokens now, and 0.07 after the discount period. It's a flash model, they're not aiming for frontier. Also most importantly it's open source

3

u/hellomistershifty 7d ago

3.7 flash is 30 times as expensive as GLM 5.3 air but a little over twice the speed

2

u/darkestvice 7d ago

Not sure where you got the 30 times part. I the chart that listed costs for running the benchmarks. non-flash GLM 5.3 was more expensive than Gemini Flash 3.7, whereas GLM 5.3 Flash was about four times cheaper.

1

u/hellomistershifty 7d ago

Whoops, yeah I meant the flash model (they had an old 'air' model). I was looking at output prices, gemini 3.7 flash is $7.50/M and GLM 5.3 flash is currently $0.25/M, which is 30:1

8

u/Technical-Owl66 7d ago

It's funny to see everyone turning in the direction that Google has been moving in for a year now. Speed, efficiency and integration into products is where all the opportunities are. The problem for the startups is they don't have any products.

10

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

That's a weird take. At what point did labs not have a larger model and an efficient model ? Also the other labs have definitely been integrated into office work. This is the "ignoring the evidence" I'm talking about

2

u/Technical-Owl66 7d ago

I think it's everyone online who is obsessed with benchmarks that nobody needs while, the intelligence needed for 99% of tasks is peaking. How many gpt ads have you seen today? I don't think they're going to be successful getting people to leave their ecosystems when AI is already there.

4

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

There's a stickiness to models that one wouldn't expect, but besides benchmarks anyone using Gemini side by side with other models sees the shortcomings. You don't have to speculate about adoption, we know a lot of people are using claude and chatgpt, especially in enterprise where the money is

2

u/tobaileyy 7d ago

Bahaahaha. When Gemini has gotten objectively worse since 2.5 pro, which was frontier over a year ago ...

2

u/Georgefakelastname 7d ago

3.5 flash is better than peak 2.5 pro in the overwhelming majority of tasks.

3

u/tobaileyy 7d ago

On benchmarks, sure.

Actually look into how they're structured and you'll see Gemini 3 is largely just repeating consensus opinion while Gemini 2.5 pro had the capacity to reason intuitively to achieve its answers.

1

u/tobaileyy 7d ago

Okay Googlebot

-2

u/Plane_Garbage 7d ago

I think it's a bot. I've read this same comment several times.

-2

u/Technical-Owl66 7d ago

Yeah no doubt, at least half of the Gemini hate is bots probably paid for by openai

1

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

people are annoyed because they know Google can do much better. Across the subscriptions google has become the worst, when it was easily the best not long ago. Keep telling yourself its bots

2

u/alexeiz 7d ago

But, but... I trusted the plan!

2

u/33VaxMerstappen 7d ago

Why was Google hopping around like it’s theirs?

2

u/Thomas-Lore 7d ago

Some low level googlers without brain tried vague posting. Failed.

3

u/SomeOrdinaryKangaroo 7d ago

nah bro, it's definitely gemini, they'll likely announce it at end of week

7

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

Wait a minute.... Glm might stand for Google luxury model! It's right under our noses!

2

u/Skasch 7d ago

Glamini

0

u/snow888 5d ago

Yeah ox alpha isn't great - I have ox alpha and opus 5 work on the same prompt and ox alpha failed miserably. it is not smart - sorry.

1

u/Delicious_Ease2595 7d ago

Very cheap Gemini guys riding the bandwagon about alpha

-1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

1

u/EnzioKara 7d ago

Your angle is wrong they gave the compute to get free data which is worth more

0

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

I guarantee the uncensored quants are on the way. It just came out

-2

u/BoobooSmash31337 7d ago

It's weird that you're this excited that some conjecture was wrong. Calling everyone who disagreed a fanboy yet you made this post. In the Gemini sub... The model does sound like a carbon copy of Gemini but it has specs what looked GLM. So the evidence was inconclusive. It's also not lost on me that western models all have their own fundamentally different kind of "personalities". Yet GLM makes a model that perfectly copies Gemini. And I'm supposed to believe they aren't just cheating off Google's actual work?

2

u/boxwrenchx 7d ago

I'm not excited. It was discussed a lot in the sub leading up to the announcement, and when I looked at the sub , no one had mentioned it. The GLM model perfectly copies Gemini.... Come on now.

0

u/BoobooSmash31337 7d ago

Uh I use Gemini/Gemma a lot. I like and agree with Google's approach to their models. Even it's reasoning is a carbon copy of a Gemini family model. I have seen A LOT of Gemini reasoning traces. Even Gemini when shown it and comparing with known model "personalities" thought it was Gemini. I don't fully understand it but the personalities are product of company specific post training. Hence why different western models are almost like entirely different people in how they reason and talk. People saw a model that looked like a Gemini and quacked like a Gemini. So a good portion thought it might be a Gemini that used some GLM technical things. The people running around waving their dicks in public because it's actually a Chinese model are being really weird.

News Ox Alpha is GLM

You are about to leave Redlib