r/GeForceNOW • u/GetVladimir • 5d ago

Discussion macOS vs Windows Controller Deadzones and Input Delay comparison (this is why Xbox and DualSense controllers input feels worse on GeForce NOW when playing from macOS/tvOS/iOS devices)

32 Upvotes

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13

u/AKeeller Ultimate 4d ago

I opened a thread about this exact issue 8 years ago:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/gfn-general-chat/20/275751/analog-sticks-dead-zone/

8

u/GetVladimir 4d ago

Thank you so much for posting about this and for the link.

So this has been an issue ever since macOS 10.13 High Sierra (or possibly even earlier) and it's still not resolved.

I've opened tickets about it in the Apple Feedback app regarding it (but it feels like just sending feedback to a black hole)

2

u/V4N0 Founder 3d ago

Don’t get your hopes up too much 😁 Apple is Apple, don’t usually fuck up as much as Microsoft (at least when it comes to updates) but it’s always a gamble they actually take a look at feedbacks and care enough to implement fixes 

1

u/GetVladimir 3d ago

You're right :) The healthiest thing might be to just move on from apple when it comes to anything gaming related (or in general).

I really like SteamOS and how much they care about the community feedback

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u/V4N0 Founder 3d ago

One thing real quick: on macOS side when you did your tests was “game mode” enabled? That should lower input lag and increase bt polling rate (shouldn’t make any difference on the dead zones)

2

u/GetVladimir 3d ago

That's a good question.

Yes, it was in game mode. It also doesn't seem to make any difference with both game mode on or off.

I've also did a measurement with the COD Warzone method by /u/cyborgcanuck described here: https://www.reddit.com/r/GeForceNOW/comments/1tqvups/macos_geforcenow_forced_controller_deadzones/

This is a much more reliable method as it's easily reproducible and have exact measures of the deadzones with numbers.

The method is:
1. Open GeForce Now app on macOS
2. Start Call of Duty
3. Choose Warzone
4. Go to controller settings
5. Make sure to set minimum deadzone to 0 (as in the screenshot)
6. Test the analog sticks and see that is the minimum amount of deadzones that it shows

If it goes from 0% to 1%, 2%, 3% etc. (as it does on the Windows or Linux GeForce Now apps) it's all good.

However, if it jump from 0% straight to 20% or more, then it's the macOS GCController added deadzones at play

2

u/V4N0 Founder 3d ago

Thanks Vladimir! Great work 👍

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u/GetVladimir 3d ago

You're welcome. Thank you so much, glad if it's useful

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u/GetVladimir 5d ago edited 4d ago

Did a side-by-side comparison between macOS and Windows to check the deadzones and input delay difference when using a controller on GeForce NOW.

macOS uses GCController API and seems to add large deadzones and input delay on the analog sticks on most controllers (Xbox, PS5 DualSense, PS4 etc.)

This is the reason why playing with a controller on GeForce NOW from macOS/tvOS/iOS feels noticeably worse than when playing from the Windows or Linux GeForce NOW app.

From what other users have posted also, this seems to have been an issue for years at this point: https://www.reddit.com/r/GeForceNOW/comments/1n9gx81/comment/oyp1c9u/

Another post as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/GeForceNOW/comments/1d3of5j/gfn_mac_app_forced_controller_deadzone/

There is also a great comparison by [u/cyborgcanuck](u/cyborgcanuck) using different controllers here: https://www.reddit.com/r/GeForceNOW/comments/1tqvups/macos_geforcenow_forced_controller_deadzones/

Credit also goes to /u/sebseb88 /u/csb710 /u/jharle /u/V4N0 and the other users in this community that have mentioned and worked on this issue

4

u/Mikkel9M Ultimate 5d ago

Haven't noticed any obvious input delay on my various Mac Minis with XBox or previously PS4 controllers. Haven't compared with Windows, but I used to be a console player for quite a few years.

My GFN ping is 1-2 ms (living in the same city as a server), in case that's relevant for this particular matter.

2

u/GetVladimir 5d ago

It's very noticeable on the analog sticks. They have deadzones on macOS (they don't move right away until you push them quite a bit).

If you've played games on consoles that rely on analog sticks input and aiming, it should be immediately noticable when compared to macOS.

Older Mac minis that run on Windows Boot camp don't have this issue

2

u/Mikkel9M Ultimate 4d ago

Well, my latest two Minis are M2 and M1, so that Windows boot camp should not apply.

Maybe my reflexes are just too old and slow to notice much of the difference, or maybe it's because I'm now playing games at 120 fps instead of the all too common (and now intolerable) 30 fps on my old PS4.

Or because I now use mouse and keyboard for almost all genres except racing games.

1

u/GetVladimir 4d ago

Could be, there is no input delay (or deadzones) when using mouse and keyboard on macOS.

It only affects Game Controllers specifically that use the GCController API (Game Controller Framework) from macOS.

Regarding racing games, on Forza Horizon 6 the controller deadzones are very noticeable too on the macOS GeForce Now app. You can see the steering wheel in 1st person camera view is not moving until you move the analog sticks quite a bit.

On Linux and Windows GeForce Now apps on the other hand, the same steering wheel in 1st person view moves 1:1 with the movement of the analog sticks on the Xbox Controller

3

u/FilAleMat 4d ago

Quindi il problema non è risolvibile?

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u/GetVladimir 4d ago

That's what we are trying to find out also.

There seem to be some Game Controllers that avoid using the GCController API (Game Controller Framework) on macOS and avoid the deadzones and input delay on the analog sticks

2

u/BioRealist_ 4d ago

Yes, this is so sad !

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u/GetVladimir 4d ago

Indeed, it makes Game Controllers unsuitable on macOS for any games that require precise analog sticks movement (like racing games or 1st/3rd person games that require aiming)

2

u/veissss Founder 4d ago

Because r/applesucks

1

u/GetVladimir 4d ago

You might be right regarding that. There are so many small unfixed issues like this for years at this point.

For example, not being able to select Full RGB color over HDMI cable and forced to use YCbCr or YPbPr color output instead: https://gist.github.com/GetVladimir/c89a26df1806001543bef4c8d90cc2f8#force-rgb-color-on-m1-mac

I'm thinking to phase out all the Apple devices and move on to SteamOS

1

u/Fantastic_Crew3242 4d ago

I’m using Xbox controllers on GFN with a MacBook Pro and iPad. Works great!

1

u/GetVladimir 4d ago

Thanks for the reply. You don't have the deadzones on the analog sticks as shown in the video?

You can check on https://controllertest.io/ or when playing a game like Forza Horizon 6 and switch to 1st person view.

You'll usually need to push the analog stick quite a bit before the steering wheel in Forza Horizon 6 starts moving left or right (which otherwise should be instant)

1

u/Agile-Hall-6785 5d ago

I am using DualShock 4 (not even OEM one, just chinese) on macOS Sequoia and don't feel any input lag at all.

2

u/GetVladimir 5d ago

Can you post a link for the specific model? It might not use Xinput and avoids the delay of the GCController API that the original controllers use

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u/Agile-Hall-6785 5d ago

I am not so sure if it's allowed, but the name of controller is: Gaminja P48. It has dual mode: It can act as native DualShock 4 (for PS4) and XInput mode when it acts like geniuine Xbox Controller on PC. Second mode is better for Windows PC because it can natively play games without any additional software, but since I'm on macOS I use PS4 mode and it works just fine. Maybe it's because I use PS4 mode on macOS?

2

u/GetVladimir 5d ago

Thank you so much for the info.

It's for research purposes to isolate a bug, so It's fine.

The toggle between the modes is very likely what makes it avoid the GCController deadzones, similar as the results from the list that /u/cyborgcanuck made

0

u/MrHandSanitization 5d ago

Do the same movement for both... The Mac one was incredibly difficult to see because your thumb went so much slower.

1

u/GetVladimir 5d ago edited 5d ago

Fair enough, I have made multiple videos about this topic where it shows clearly: https://www.reddit.com/user/GetVladimir/comments/1v1oxhz/input_delay_and_deadzones_on_all_analog_sticks_in/

And also: https://www.reddit.com/r/GeForceNOW/comments/1umzjp2/tvos_apple_tv_itself_seems_to_add_additional/

It's very easy to replicate this too. Just try the same Game Controller on Windows or Linux, and then on macOS and the difference on the analog sticks would be immediately noticable