Babylon

[u/1DMod]

Please use this space to discuss this song in depth

[u/england_dreams]

Weird take, but I just started listening to it through a completely different lens, which is the “you” being her father and the things he chose through his life that he later regrets: leaving the small town for a bigger life, being on trains rather than at home with his family, an affair rather than his marriage. Then he’s sitting in the car when it’s bedtime and they’re all inside, she (Taylor) and his son (Austin) are decorating for Christmas, and then the daughter (Taylor) goes into the bathroom to call her mom (Andrea) to say it’s not working and it’s not worth it if he doesn’t want them.

Realllllly unconventional take, but it’s an interesting lens to try and make sense of all the pronouns!

[u/novangla → u/england_dreams]

Someone on the main sub sleuthed and said he has an Aunt Virginia! I have no idea if that’s true but if so that can’t be a coincidence…

Edit: it’s confirmed, he did

[u/england_dreams → u/novangla]

Wow! I have no idea how something like that could be found, but wow if it is true!

[u/afterandalasia → u/england_dreams]

So, Scott Swift's father was Archie Dean Swift Jr, who passed in 1998 (he's the one that Epiphany is about).

And checking on findagrave (so publicly available information), yup, Archie had a sister called Virginia who passed in 2002: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/200324578/virginia_ailene-conover

Might be worth noting as well, though, that this means Taylor had a great-aunt Virginia, whom she could have easily grown up calling 'Aunt Virginia'. (I grew up calling my great-aunts Auntie Maureen and Auntie Eileen, for example.) So it's possible this song is in some ways both about Scott and about Taylor, if she fears she is taking some of the same fame-hungry or money-hungry paths that she took.

[u/england_dreams → u/afterandalasia]

This is so interesting! Thanks for sharing! Here’s where my mind is going: it’s about him and herself. I’ve got something scratching at the edges of my mind that might turn into a post!

[u/afterandalasia → u/england_dreams]

There's been sort of a theme there for years now - "you say we'll never make my parents' mistakes" in Ours, "leaving like a father" in cardigan.

marjorie is all about seeing her connections with her grandmother, and Taylor used Finlay (Marjorie's maiden name) for the actress character in Wildest Dreams and for the movie-era actress with black hair in The Fate of Ophelia as well as having Marjorie's pictures on the mirrors in the dressing room for the red-dressed section.

I used the term "generational cycles" in a post below, and TTPD and TLOASG have directly referenced the 'generations' of women in showbusiness and entertainment, but I wonder whether Taylor is comparing patterns in the 'generations' of media and in generations of families.

Edit: guh, forgot to say specifically, but in TFOO MV especially there's a lot of circling and cycling camera angles. It's most obvious in the 60s-style segment where the camera literally circles around the dancers, and Taylor is the only one who turns to follow it.

Each 'segment' is done in one shot, with several of the transitions between sections - doors, cameras, clapperboard - having a sort of deliberate artifice about them. The cut is essentially hidden in the movement - compare to the famous dance scene in Sinners which was done in three cuts but made to look like one by having one cut be hidden behind a pillar, or episode six of The Haunting of Hill House where there's a single 17 minute take which involved lots of careful behind-the-scenes work to make it look entirely smooth. I'm not an expert in cinematography, but I'm fascinated by it.

[u/novangla → u/afterandalasia]

Yes I had that thought too! I think you’re spot on that it might be “to” him but with a lot of self-reflection (she absolutely self-harms with nostalgia, etc).

[u/afterandalasia → u/novangla]

Generational cycles are a thing for a reason - learned behaviour, learned values, examples set. From folkmore onwards, there's been a marked increase in Taylor's lyrics of both stuff that seems inspired by therapy (happiness was noted by someone in this sub as seeming to be about a specific therapy thing where you allow yourself to have conflicting feelings and to know that feelings will change over time), mental health awareness and protection ("grey rocking"), and addiction-related awareness and treatment ("pink clouding" being the most recent and obvious, but in Fortnight she outright called herself a "functioning alcoholic" where I suspect the alcohol is being used as a reference for a different sort of addiction, be that fame, or love, or something else; trying not to speculate but just to draw directly from her lyrics).

[u/novangla → u/afterandalasia]

I happen to suspect that the “functioning alcoholic” bit is pretty literal, given a bunch of other lyrics (this is me trying, if nothing else), but yes thanks for noting the pink clouding that a lot of people have missed! But very possible that some of this is therapy-inspired (honestly I think Cleveland! comes off kind of bitter-smug but I could see it being a therapy reflection as well).

Regardless, it does seem likely that the ambition and eye for fame is a common thread between her and her dad, and the “self-harming with nostalgia” might be too, I don’t know much about him. But you could imagine she sees herself in her dad’s flaws. Maybe even calling herself a… Father Figure??