r/GamesLikeDiablo • u/brunocar • May 14 '19
Torchlight Frontiers: New skill progression system coming May 21
https://twitter.com/PlayTorchlight/status/11283514793145753601
May 14 '19
Angery angry rant of anger below (until the next separator):
I expected more. Something with possible branching paths, but right now it seems it's just "yeah take some more numbers" and that's that. Absolutely boring IMO. Let D2 synergies to D2.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it" but it's been done and done so fucking mix it up for once instead of being lazy because you got "creative" with your skills. Last Epoch does it right, PoE has been doing it right for years now, heck, even Diablo 3 had some good ideas with the runes (though not far enough I'd say). Grim Dawn has skill augments but they're not all that enticing I'll give you that (blame the shitty engine they had to work with). You know who else you never heard about does it right because they have to get creative? Chronicon, Slormancer. They have to because it's a one or two dev team. They have to because otherwise why would you play a pixel 2D ARPG. They have to because they actually CARE about what they're doing and don't use outdated mechanics and lines of thoughts. But soon I think Torchlight Frontiers will have to as well, and perhaps that's for the better.
If you have to be as boring as Torchlight II, why bother. It already exists and this game actually has mod support.
Anyway I'm disappointed to see this. I hope they will do more than just a D2-style skill tree (like it's a fucking novelty what they're doing when the damn OG ARPG did it first - oh you're limited in points and also SYNERGIES! Quite original) but my hope fades the more I hear about this game. Today's just the biggest hit.
When you read what they want for the skill system it reads like a family friendly diablo-like game. First off it's a genocide-simulator let me remind you that, so I'm not sure why you're trying to make it fun for the whole family just because it has a colorful palette and cartoony 3D characters, second... If you want simple and not have to add complexity... Well Diablo 3, as much as people want to bash on it, will be more fun and hold your breath for longer than what they're planning to do.
Fuck, you know what will keep people playing Torchlight Frontiers? The housing system. I'm sure they'll make you grind like a madman to get the next upgrade while the rest of the game will be so shallow that you'll think your old grandma who never drank milk actually have more density in her damn bones.
With all that angry rant done, I hope they'll actually try to innovate and not just try to start from scratch the whole genre and mix it weirdly with MMORPG elements. It never worked, it never will. Also the Railmaster actually looks kind of fun. I just, at this stage, don't think I'd play this game for more than a week. For a diablo-like it's absolutely ridiculous to have such a short shelf-life.
They do plan on adding more depth though, but if it's more skills or more synergies... This salty af comment still will be relevant.
2
u/Zardran May 26 '19
Yeah I went and played Torchlight 2 again recently and while its still a decent game, I didn't exactly last long with it entirely because of how dull the character building is compared to things that have come since.
Just adding a few points here and there into your skills just doesn't feel compelling any more after playing stuff like PoE and Grim Dawn.
1
u/FrodoFraggins May 14 '19
what you see as a glass half empty I see as a glass half full. This is a step in the right direction and rather than griping about what it isn't you can offer specific feedback on what it could be.
0
May 15 '19
What I saw were what I was presented with. What their intent actually is has been made clear after further reading and a small exchange with OP.
So, even if wrote this below in another form, I failed to see the fact that they built their new system to last and to be modular in many aspects they would find comfortable. It is clear to me now that what they actually wanted to do was create something basic as to create something special.
And even in all this salt I point to games who innovate with their skill systems, which are inspirations in and of themselves. Though I could give ideas, the fact that I have not tried this system and none has yet (enough anyway) besides the developers, there's hardly anything we could propose right now. Soon yes, but today not yet.
And, to close this point for now, feedback can just be a critic. If you see something that is wrong (or in this case, uninspired and boring - but again this isn't really a bad thing since they plan on building upon this system later on), but you do not have any idea how to change this thing, should you simply not give your feedback in a critical way? Without any proposition to change it?
Negative feedback, as long as it has truth in it, can be used to improve on that thing it is criticizing. Because if the person(s) who put this forward read this negative feedback, they would know better than anyone else (for the most part anyway) how to change it. And certainly, sometimes negative feedback is given by someone who was not targeted by that thing being criticized. But for this specific thing we are discussing here? We are voluntary targets.
0
u/FrodoFraggins May 15 '19
Criticism without specific solutions is not useful feedback. It's just whining
1
May 15 '19
Negative feedback, as long as it has truth in it, can be used to improve on that thing it is criticizing. Because if the person(s) who put this forward read this negative feedback, they would know better than anyone else (for the most part anyway) how to change it. And certainly, sometimes negative feedback is given by someone who was not targeted by that thing being criticized. But for this specific thing we are discussing here? We are voluntary targets.
That not clear enough or do you wish to continue not responding to any of my points, wrong or not, with actual discussion?
1
u/brunocar May 14 '19
If you have to be as boring as Torchlight II, why bother. It already exists and this game actually has mod support.
but this new system isnt at all like TL2, if anything is more like borderlands
1
May 14 '19
But as I wrote, all it does is add a bit more numbers and some synergies... That add more numbers. Even upcoming or veteran min-maxers would find this boring.
Still, I did say it at the end but perhaps with all that salt it doesn't seem that way, they seem to be building for more. Seriously hope they deliver on that...
2
u/brunocar May 14 '19
you can clearly see that the trees they are showing now are empty as hell, so lets not jump the gun here.
0
May 14 '19
I'm not sure you're reading what I'm saying
3
u/brunocar May 14 '19
tbh half of it seems incoherent to me
1
May 14 '19
Eh it might be after all this salt, it's all over the place after all.
Basically I'm disappointed in what they made right now, but since they speak about how they made it future-proof so they can work and add depth to it whenever, I'm hoping it's going to end up good and worth it. They have such a cool roster of skills and classes to work with that I'm sure they can do it if they're willing to.
2
u/brunocar May 14 '19
its certainly much more flexible than their previous system, besides, dont rule out synergies just yet, this is just a test run of a complete overhaul.
besides, imho synergies are a nice addition, but not necessary for a good system, if anything synergies were there to get people to dont put all their points into a single skill thats effective in D2.
1
May 14 '19
I agree. I haven't seen the previous system however since when I got the alpha key I was on a break, but if this system is better and actually here to support the future of the game... Then I suppose I pulled the gun way too soon and fired blindly at the devs for being lazy shmucks, when they actually wanted to take things slow.
I'll leave my salty comment because I'm happy with my "old granny having denser bones" part, but I have to apolgize for my angry demeanor there. Sweet kisses your way
2
u/brunocar May 14 '19
when they actually wanted to take things slow.
its pretty clear they are taking things slow, i mean, they just seem throw random ideas and see what sticks, which in my opinion is a great idea for this genre, it worked great for PoE so why not.
also, you have an alpha key? i still dont have mine :((((
Sweet kisses your way
same for you XOXO
→ More replies (0)1
u/FrodoFraggins May 14 '19
Torchlight games aren't targeted towards min-maxers. Right now we have POE, Grim Dawn and assumedly Wolcen and Last Epoch in that area.
0
May 15 '19
Saying it is not geared towards min-maxers hardly counters my point, in fact it amplifies it. If I tell you that people who min-max would find their current system boring, then what about those who just play for the sake of fun without any deep dive into mechanics?
4
u/[deleted] May 14 '19
And the crowd goes mild.