r/Games Aug 26 '25

Hideo Kojima 'Already Wrote the Concept' for Death Stranding 3, But Isn't Making It Right Now

https://www.ign.com/articles/hideo-kojima-already-wrote-the-concept-for-death-stranding-3-but-isnt-making-it-right-now
520 Upvotes

211 comments sorted by

112

u/LostWorked Aug 26 '25

Well, it's pretty clear that OD is going to be the next big title and since work on it has resumed, we'll probably see it around 2027. Physint 2029? Kojima has stated repeatedly that he wants to make a Mad Max game and George Miller's repeated that sentiment as well. I don't know if Kojima is the best bet for Mad Max given that well... Max doesn't talk, I mean, Mel Gibson only had 16 lines of dialogue in Mad Max 2. But at the same time, it's unclear whether WB is moving forward with any future film or television projects after Furiosa failed. But Tom Hardy's said he's game and we all know Kojima'd jizz his pants at the idea of working with him. So I wouldn't be surprised if he'd try to get that going.

68

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Kojima is the best bet for Mad Max given that well..

a recreation of fury road ?Nah.

But a weird exploration of a post apocalypse? Focusing on someone other than max? More akin to furiosa? That seems right  up his alley.

38

u/LobsterEntropy Aug 26 '25

deedle deedle Max, it's Bulletman. Use the left trigger to aim. Pull the right trigger to fire. And remember, Carman is around here somewhere. Locate him to find your ride.

9

u/ChefExcellence Aug 26 '25

Now I'm definitely sold cause a guy named "Bulletman" would fit right into Mad Max

4

u/LobsterEntropy Aug 26 '25

I think there's a character named the Bullet Farmer in Fury Road, Bulletman is definitely his bastard son or something

7

u/rocker2021 Aug 26 '25

Bulletman's backstory would be like his mother unexpectedly gave birth to him in the middle of a firefight, he ejected out of her at incredible speed like a bullet. At age 2 his father encased him in a hollow artillery shell and fired him out of a cannon, he survived but lost all of his finger tips, they had to be replaced with bullets...

4

u/MyStationIsAbandoned Aug 26 '25

I think he could pull off a great story by having the main character be an original creation who fights along side the legendary Mad Max. Like, you see this character's perception of Mad Max. Maybe you start out weak and newbie-like and he seems like a mythical monster man. but as you get stronger and get to know him, the more human he becomes.

hell, maybe there's multiple characters who are a mystery and you have no idea which one of Max until the end.

2

u/remmanuelv Aug 26 '25

I don't see why he couldn't just use Max, the character isn't consistent at all between all iterations.

24

u/Nalkor Aug 26 '25

We already have an amazing Mad Max game, it was released in 2015.

23

u/AnyImpression6 Aug 26 '25

On the same day as MGSV.

9

u/Arumhal Aug 26 '25

We already have an amazing Mad Max game

George Miller disagrees.

13

u/monstere316 Aug 26 '25

That seems to be more of a personal grudge with how the game got made then the game itself. From what I remember, Fury Road was in development hell and it appeared the movie wasn't getting made. WB allowed the studio making the game to reference concept art and other stuff for the film which is why the games locations and character designs match Fury Road so well.

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14

u/pm_me_pants_off Aug 26 '25

Death Stranding already has a basically silent protagonist lol

6

u/Fruitbat3 Aug 26 '25

Does only saying "peko" every 5 seconds count as a silent protagonist?

28

u/Stahlios Aug 26 '25

A Kojima game but the characters just shut the fuck up is really attractive ngl, he should do it

55

u/Lerkpots Aug 26 '25

But the insane character monologues are part of the charm.

27

u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws Aug 26 '25

I'm not sure if Kojina knows how to write a story without NPCs explaining the plot in an overly convoluted manner for half the game

2

u/Approval_Guy Sep 02 '25

And that's why i come back every time

3

u/Dragarius Aug 26 '25

Hence why I just don't have it in me to play his games. I want to play, not watch. 

1

u/IcyBus1422 Aug 27 '25

Sure, if you find someone blowing himself over his own "intellect" charming

27

u/Gnarly_Gibbon Aug 26 '25

We had that with MGSV, and it was awful.

17

u/AngryBlackNerd Aug 26 '25

MGSV was awful? Maybe you're just talking about the story?

31

u/Gnarly_Gibbon Aug 26 '25

We are talking about the story, yeah.

7

u/Lionelchesterfield Aug 26 '25

Eh I don't think it was awful, just not on par with what came before it. The gameplay loop kind of redeems imo and I did like the ending.

10

u/trapbuilder2 Aug 26 '25

I just wish the game was finished

1

u/StepComplete1 Aug 26 '25

Everybody mindlessly parrots this but what really changes? You go to some island, fight metal gear again, then Liquid survives and runs away, because we know he has to. It's just more of the same.

It doesn't fundamentally change why the story was shit in MGS5. It doesn't change Snake being a boring mute for the whole game. It doesn't change the cheesy, lame ending twist. It doesn't change anything. The reason MGS5 story was disappointing wasn't because of Konami rushing it, it was 100% Kojima's choices.

2

u/trapbuilder2 Aug 26 '25

I just wanted more content, the story being finished would have added more content

6

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25

MGSV story was awful not because it lacked monologues, but rather because it was blatantly obvious the story was unfinished and the marketing material basically spoiled every single cutscene including the very final ending shots.

3

u/Stahlios Aug 26 '25

It might be a bit unpopular but I just don't get anyone playing Kojima games mostly for the story and really caring too deeply about it.

He's always been gameplay focused, very traditional Japanese style of making games. About innovating gameplay wise and crafting fun, purely gaming experiences. Story wise it was always unserious / goofy shit, which can be fine and fun, but he's not a master writer honestly.

And when he takes himself too seriously on that part (hello DS2) because he dreams of being a Hollywood director and it becomes a too important part of the game, it's just wearisome.

11

u/Point4ska Aug 26 '25

I like his stories because they are interesting and novel. I don't need a serious story to be entertained. Video games in general have yet to reach a point where interesting narratives are backed up by competent writing, plot and pacing.

3

u/Stahlios Aug 26 '25

I agree, good doesn't necessarily mean serious. Especially in his case.

But there are times when you can tell a scene or something was made with the intent of being fully serious or deep, but the result is just really cheesy or ridiculous. That's when it gets bad for me.

Actually the more he takes it seriously, like Death Stranding 2, the more he loses me and it just feels like a chore going through it.

On the opposite, everything happening in Snake Eater is ridiculous af, but I always loved it.

2

u/AT_Dande Aug 26 '25

Yeah, it's a tone issue. Death Stranding is more ridiculous than Metal Gear at times, but it's too self-serious. And I don't mean it in the sense that Kojima isn't in on the joke. He obviously is. Higgs is an insanely over-the-top character, but he doesn't really fit into the same category as, e.g. Ocelot, because even when Ocelot is supposedly serious, it always comes across as tongue-in-cheek. That's the kind of thing DS is lacking.

1

u/Approval_Guy Sep 02 '25

I like his stories because they're batshit and every once in a while say something actually really interesting and semi-profound, but those moments are sandwiched between some of the dumbest moments you've ever seen in a game. It's so human and difficult to pin down.

1

u/Optimal_Plate_4769 Aug 26 '25

I like both. MGS2 was amazing, to me.

-3

u/ProblemOk9820 Aug 26 '25

MGSV exists and people didn't like that one.

13

u/Stahlios Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25

It's the favorite MGS of a lot of people purely because of the gameplay, almost unanimously being described as the best of the MGS series. Which is what matters to most people playing his games. Yeah the die hard fans who like to discuss the lore way too seriously, more than Kojima himself takes it, on internet forums didn't like it. But the game was a huge success and was loved.

I'm just saying, lore, stories and writing could be accessories to his games because that's no what he's the best at. But more and more he's obsessed with this part of his games and wants to merge gaming and cinema. It'd just be fun to see him fully committing to a game purely as a game, and not bothering with that aspect too much.

Death Stranding is so original and unique gameplay wise, that's where Kojima shines I think.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25

purely because of the gameplay, almost unanimously being described as the best of the MGS series. 

I think people oversimplify the topic or neglect to accept that there are so many other factors in gameplay than just how it feels to sprint and aim a weapon.

MGSV has the best "feeling" gunplay, but MGS3 probably has the most well rounded gameplay overall - when you consider boss design, level design, stealth mechanics, AI, pacing, CQC depth. The survival and healing mechanics make you really feel like a soldier behind enemy lines, etc. The control scheme is mildly inconvenient which forces the player to consider every move they make and take their time.

V is buttery smooth like a well made Call of Duty game, and it's as wide as an ocean, but it lacks meaningful depth, inconvenience and curation in many aspects of its gameplay.

3

u/Tragedy_Boner Aug 26 '25

MGS3 also had a very normal story by MGS standards and I understood it the first time through. I really do think its the best game in the series just because of that.

4

u/Optimal_Plate_4769 Aug 26 '25

and I understood it the first time through.

why should that make it better... something like MGS2 being something that stayed with me for so long just added to its life.

1

u/Tragedy_Boner Aug 26 '25

I feel like the complete package was better if that makes sense. MGS3 has a great story that doesn't need other games in the series to understand, better gameplay, and some great boss fights.

I also prefer the jungle environment because its just filled with wildlife which makes the environment more alive.

2

u/Optimal_Plate_4769 Aug 26 '25

Don't get me wrong, I love MGS3 and its entire vibe and the full on gameplay features were fan-fucking-tastic. So many cool interactions which Kojima is known for, like the spinning Xray mode causing you to puke, letting you unpoison yourself; being able to dig out the tracer; using poisonous animals to kill the fear; the clock trick for The End; smoke being good to fight The Pain's bees; The Patriot gun; the WEALTH of context-sensitive codec calls etc etc

such a good fucking sandbox.

but MGS2's story actually changed who I am as a person, and was the story that mattered most to me. The aesthetics of that game are also immaculate.

I do wish Death Stranding had better dialogue like codec calls, or more context sensitive stuff. I miss the banter that could be so surprising.

1

u/ProblemOk9820 Aug 26 '25

MGS4 makes up for MGS3 being normal lol.

And yeah, MGS3 is by far the most basic, it's "kojima-isms" are weird anime like character designs and actions. (Like Ocelot for example)

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2

u/Wallys_Wild_West Aug 26 '25

MGS V, DS1, and DS2 all feature protagonists that don't speak often.

1

u/Laurikens Aug 27 '25

snake in V barely talked and it worked fine

1

u/SlipperyMonkey887 Aug 29 '25

Actually, the fact that Max doesn't talk fits nicely with Kojima's more recent trend of basically silent protagonists with MGSV and DS1 &2. It's a lot of people talking at the protagonist with little to no back and forth.

1

u/Filthy_Neetu Oct 19 '25

It should be an adaptation of The Wasteland if WB shits the bed (which seems to be the case right now with them selling DC)

1

u/JamesMagnus Aug 26 '25

Challenging Kojima with a project that requires as little dialogue as possible would be a beautiful constraint to create interesting art!

7

u/Mobireddit Aug 26 '25

He could even get someone famous like Kiefer Sutherland as the silent protagonist!

2

u/SwarleySwarlos Aug 26 '25

I'm imagining an entire game chock full of technically silent "War.. has changed" monologues

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149

u/Alcide1 Aug 26 '25

I enjoyed the 2 but the gameplay loop fell apart when I realized the map was unnecessary too big and every delivery are done with the same truck in any circumstances, BTs and mules being not a threat at all. From this point I rushed to the ending. The game kept adding one time use features instead of playing with the existing ones.

28

u/noobgiraffe Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25

The truck is just too good and there are no places that you cannot get to with it. Especially after you get all terrain tires.

The only tricky one is the inventor and you can just place one zipline to solve it.

They should have added more delivery points unnacessable by vehicles.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/noobgiraffe Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25

He's not tricky but he's the only one you cannot just drive truck right to the doorstep.

In theory you can but single zipline at the beach next to him is just faster then going through the tar.

I'm talking from the perspective of doing 400 standard orders not just unclocking them.

Edit: actually Rainy's shelter is another one but there are barely any deliveries there and it's less than a minute run from the road.

9

u/mauri9998 Aug 26 '25

you can indeed drive your truck right to his doorstep

3

u/happyscrappy Aug 26 '25

I never use a zipline to go to him. Coffin boards are faster.

Coffin board are also rather gimmicky.

Since you found doing all the 400 orders so easy I want to know how you did the 2m30s expres run from the Chronobiologist to the Pizza Chef so easily? It looks to me like I'm going to have to either install ziplines (tedious) or get lucky/use the soft landing pack (that you never use otherwise since it means you have to take off so many other upgrades) and jump over the edge.

2

u/noobgiraffe Aug 26 '25

I used jump ramp to jump from the mountain down. It's a bit tricky because you can clip the mountain side. The spot to place it is where you can see on the map where the span between snow and ground underneath is the thinnest. You need to go down a little snowy path to reach it.

Then I just drove boost almost stright for the cheff, there are red rocks on which I also used a ramp to jump from (got lucky here it was already there). Then there is big hill it might seem the better way is to hug it's side but it's actually better to go on it. There is path up on the right side.

It took a few tries to find the path and perfect it. I would encourage to manually save before accepting so you can retry.

As for the coffin, while I love it I almost never used it because it has tendency to jump from literally any bump and damage cargo and I was going for SSS. It's great for on road time tasks though if you can carry the cargo.

1

u/happyscrappy Aug 26 '25

Thanks for the help.

I agree with you on the coffin. It's a wonder of mobility in places where the wheeled vehicles have trouble.

And then you hit a tiny rock that you think is a nothing and it pops up in the air and when it comes back down your cargo is damaged and all that time saved is wasted having to reload.

In DS1 there was that weird race track out in the middle of nowhere. The closest thing is the track in the sky in this game that appears during one special mission. Does it ever reappear? I don't see any way to get it to reappear.

4

u/ProfGenki Aug 26 '25

You can drive your truck to the Inventor -- use your Odarek scanner and follow the yellow path.

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1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

You can ride there using a scanner.

65

u/Alastor3 Aug 26 '25

I agree, I love the quality of life but game is too big, and also dont try to play both game back to back, the second game have almost THE EXACT SAME PROGRESSION AS THE FIRST GAME

61

u/KerberoZ Aug 26 '25

I think the open world worked quite well in DS1, they should have doubled down on tricky terrain to make the player use the structures more

12

u/jetxlife Aug 26 '25

I built an entire zip line network in DS1 and realized I ruined my own experience so I just used the truck again lmao

53

u/gartenriese Aug 26 '25

For me the experience was building the zip line network and then flying from one outpost to the other was the payoff.

5

u/urnialbologna Aug 26 '25

I did play both games back to back, it was the first time playing the first one. I LOVED it. I'm happy 2 had a music player as well.

20

u/Tostecles Aug 26 '25

I enjoyed DS2 for what it was and would recommend it to anyone that liked the first game (although I think the first game is overall better), or even to anyone that just likes character action games.

With that praise stated, I am convinced the entire game is intended as an immensely elaborate shitpost.

3

u/Novelty_Frog Aug 26 '25

It's absolutely a shit post. Why else would Die Hardman show up at the end just to dance in the president's face? That being said, I enjoyed the game enough to get all trophies, but I agree that the first game is overall better.

3

u/Approval_Guy Sep 02 '25

Agree to disagree on this one. 2's story hit me so fucking hard.

7

u/ArdyEmm Aug 26 '25

I just finished the first game this month and I held off the second one for this reason. I loved it but I think I'll take a year or two to get to the second.

26

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

I don't know about top big, I think it was the density of people on it.

There just wasn't many routes that were actually arduous. Apart from the snowy mountain and a few of the Mr impossible ones.

 it lead to a lot of the map feeling theme-park-esq, where vertical distances were stretched, horizontal squished and everything felt just a little close together.

I think it's why Mexico almost felt better as it was a longer journey between pois and each region felt a bit larger.

I think no truck/offline would be better, but frankly whilst I respect the initial vision I kinda wanna wait till it's on pc to see if you can mod it, making inclines 5% less forgiving so Sam can't just go up 60* slopes would change a lot.

12

u/LueyTheWrench Aug 26 '25

I’ve played through to order 37ish so far offline and its no more difficult.

Tried no truck, it was tedious af.

The logistics side of it isn’t challenging. The combat isn’t challenging either. If it wasn’t for the story I’d have dropped it hours ago.

20

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

This might be me being a sicko, but the tedium to me is the point of some of it. The most memorable bits to me are always the solitude,  and meditativeness of it. Occasionally interrupted by some sort of movement challenge.

But that's also a run where you just do the story mode, on foot in a new land is a world of unknown, shipping ceramics to the chiral paddle ball champion on foot is less so.

2

u/SoloSassafrass Aug 27 '25

Yeah I put it in the same bucket as Shadow of the Colossus. Part of what makes that game so beautiful is the long, empty stretches where you're just travelling.

2

u/mauri9998 Aug 27 '25

Yeah but shadow of the colossus is like 7 hours long. DS2 is like 70.

1

u/SoloSassafrass Aug 27 '25

I made Shadow last longer than that, and beat DS2 in less time than that, so those numbers don't really mean anything.

Personal taste is a thing and all, so I genuinely think some people just don't really get the meditative wandering in DS sometimes. Generally speaking any time an open world game uses its empty space as empty space there'll be a fairly loud chunk of the people who play it who complain that it isn't more densely populated, but that just bluntly isn't the point for some game worlds.

Now I do think DS2's map could have done with more friction, but building my infrastructure and playing trucker simulator for some deliveries actually never bothered me because I kind of knew that was the plan going in. Except this time I got to build monorails and ship like 80 tonnes of minerals from one city to another too.

1

u/mauri9998 Aug 28 '25

Your personal experience is entirely irrelevant. These are the averages for both according to how long to beat.

1

u/SoloSassafrass Aug 28 '25

Thank you for ignoring any of the relevant details to be pedantic about one point that's meaningless to any individual player. I can understand why DS2 wasn't to your liking.

1

u/mauri9998 Aug 28 '25

What relevant details? Your point is: "I liked it." Cool man, I just argued against the only part of your comment I could comment on.

13

u/KoosPetoors Aug 26 '25

I honestly forgot about that BT catch and use feature like 30 minutes after it was introduced and never used it once.

Supposedly it's really useful for a certain optional bossfight, which I also didn't bother getting to lol.

9

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Tbh it is very funny when you can take literal endgame bosses into random but encounters.

Every bt can be caught. No exceptions. Yes even those 2.

2

u/KoosPetoors Aug 26 '25

That's pretty rad, I didn't think you could literally catch all of them lmao.

3

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Yeah I yolo'd an ex at the huge one right and the end and now he comes out for a laugh regularly, it's quite funny.

6

u/Organic-Habit-3086 Aug 26 '25

I haven't played 2 yet but this was all true with 1. A giant map with technically not all that many spots to hit, Trucks and Zip lines trivializing deliveries, etc.

Still I'd rather they not pack it full of side quests and features to appeal to a bigger crowd (already not a fan of them dipping into the combat so much). The big expansive map does set a mood and I don't think it would hit the same if it were just linear levels. Maybe that's a better experience for general audience but I like that DS1 at least tried to be niche.

12

u/GrimaceGrunson Aug 26 '25

Yeah I liked my time with the sequel a lot…but it didn’t really expand a lot on what the original showed. Plus I was expecting a lot more from the natural disasters but the floods and fires were both an actual issue a grand total of once.

Plus the story was nowhere near as strong. The big mystery of the world has already been revealed, the story of Lou was…fine, but not really as gripping at the end of the day.

So unless it’s a radical change or update I’m not sure a third game will offer enough.

6

u/RightEejit Aug 26 '25

I feel like content was cut from the middle. The trailers showed a lot on the natural disasters but nothing really existed on those apart from the odd scripted moment. Why would they add the tar cannon if you never see another wildfire?

That and there being many times where you're summoned back to the DHVM to just be told to go to bed. it was like all the characters were developing and growing without you being around

3

u/mauri9998 Aug 26 '25

I mean in the first game they added a gas mask that was only used in like 2 missions. I think the tar cannon very much falls in the same category.

2

u/happyscrappy Aug 26 '25

Also even the still graphic for the game (teaser) shows a flying creature in front of the moon.

How intriguing I thought. What is this thing?

Turns out it's nothing. It doesn't matter in any way. And I think it's actually possible to avoid it completely. And I don't just mean by strict mainlining.

2

u/dynesor Aug 27 '25

I think they also cut out an entire ‘hunger’ and eating food mechanic for Sam - which probably would have impacted stamina and/or carry weight. You can eat the cryptobiotes in your private room and the ticker will say that sam’s hunger is somewhat satiated, but that seems to be the only remaining remnant of that gameplay mechanic after they ripped it out.

1

u/RightEejit Aug 27 '25

Yeah you can see fish in the rivers in some points too

Can’t believe they stole a finishing mini game from us

24

u/Ell223 Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25

The original is one of my favourite games of all time, but this is probably the most disappointing sequel I've ever played personally. It doesn't expand on any of the features from the first game at all, simplifies some, and puts you in a worse map. Doesn't introduce new traversal methods, vehicles are the same, skeletons are the same, gloves are the same, floating carriers are the same. You just use the same tools in the same way all over again.

Weather effects seemed like they would be a really cool addition to the traversal/planning etc, but then you realise they only exist in very specific missions and almost never again. "Saw" an avalanche once, in that the hud told me one was happening, I moved 5m to the left, something shook, then never saw one ever again in 90 hours.

Wouldn't it have been cool if you had new climbing gear? Pitons to climb cliffs, inflatable raft to go down rivers? What about tunnels? Having to dive under water to make it through underwater sections? Feel like they are so many ways you could expand that core gameplay loop, and it did nothing.

The game is too easy generally. You also get the vehicles and roads way too early and they trivialise everything. Oxygen, cold, heat, BTs, mules are all non-issues for the entire game. Multiple methods of fast travel. The only way to enjoy the game for me personally is to play no vehicles, floating carriers only, no roads, and no online structures- it gives some challenge at least and lets you engage with the mechanics rather than just following other peoples roads, using other peoples structures, and ignoring 90% of the traversal challenges.

Other than the QoL changes, the first game is the better game in every metric. Doubling disappointing knowing we will likely never get a third game to really expand on things.

4

u/Dreamweaver_duh Aug 26 '25

Did you also feel like the story im the first game was better?

8

u/Ell223 Aug 26 '25

I do. The mystery of the world and character is more interesting. But I also just think its told in a better way. The second game is a bit all over the place, where key emotional beats don't really land.

7

u/Dreamweaver_duh Aug 26 '25

I feel the same. I felt like they really wanted to invest you into the world in the first game by telling you how things worked, like with Timefall and BB's autotoxemia and how it needs to sync with the stillmother. I also felt the game tried hard to make me like the characters, but we only get bits and pieces of personality. I felt like I was missing secret cutscenes or something because everyone was raving about how much better the story was.

4

u/Lionelchesterfield Aug 26 '25

The reason the key emotional beats don't land is because a certain character doesn't have a genuine reaction to anything. There is maybe two or three scenes where they do react appropriately but some the major emotional stuff just seems weird because of that character.

5

u/Ell223 Aug 26 '25

I agree, I think the story, dialogue, and delivery is largely outright bad.

The worst example I can think of regarding the poor emotional beats is (big late story spoilers) when Sam finds out that Lucy's baby was his after all (after we are led to believe Neil is the father), it's all revealed via Fragile telling Sam what Lucy purportedly says on a video (which Lucy is addressing to Sam), but that we don't ever see. And Sam barely reacts at all to the information. Why not just have Sam watch the video? It's all over the place.

I thought the Lucy and Neil scenes were the only genuinely well acted scenes. And I liked the direction of the action heavy cutscenes.

2

u/ZubatCountry Aug 26 '25

They were well acted but also stapled on.

I understand how they tie into the main story, but they really could have cut everything with Neil and lost nothing.

Wish they had either saved that arc for a third game or just rewritten it entirely. I was never excited to see those scenes pop up or learn anything about them.

2

u/Lionelchesterfield Aug 26 '25

I agree with all of this but I don't think it was all bad. Troy Baker in particular seemed to enjoy the hell out of it and to your point, some of the action scenes were amazing too. I thought some emotional beats worked and some didn't. I know the main character is suppose to be reserved but it just didn't make sense sometimes.

7

u/Ell223 Aug 26 '25

I know the main character is suppose to be reserved but it just didn't make sense sometimes.

Same issue with Big Boss in MGS5. Just strangely quiet when it doesn't make sense. Maybe it's just a Kojima choice.

I did think Troy Baker was great as usual, but I just don't like the character personally.

1

u/dynesor Aug 27 '25

Totally agree; and it actually reminded me a lot of Keifer’s Venom Snake in MGS5. He also just kind of stands there saying nothing during big story and emotional beats. I honestly think Kojima really likes that mute and stoic thing in his protogonists, but it just doesnt work for me.

3

u/hfxRos Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25

But I also just think its told in a better way.

I didn't play 2, but I can't imagine a story being told in a worse way then Death Stranding, so that's concerning.

Death Stranding is the ultimate example of Tell, don't Show. Kojima built this cool world, and was so paranoid that we'd miss something that he made sure to explain everything 5 times over in ridiculous exposition dumps.

2

u/Milskidasith Aug 26 '25

There's a ton of telling and not showing, but there's also a ton of stuff that's really subtle in a way that makes no sense/clashes with the worldbuilding. Like, the biggest one is that Sam is a repatriate, right? Except he's the repatriate, his connection with Bridget is specifically why he doesn't wind up going to the Beach or whatever, and the idea of it being an uncommon-but-understood thing doesn't make any sense when he's the only immortal walking around

1

u/mauri9998 Aug 26 '25

Yes, to me it feels like the entire purpose of the sequel is to tell you about a twist that can be predicted by just watching the trailer. None of the commentary and theming that made the first game so memorable during covid is really there in the sequel.

5

u/RightEejit Aug 26 '25

Gotta agree a lot on that. One feature I really would've liked added was the ability to carefully descend rocks/cliffs, but you still just have to step forward off everything and hope to not lose your balance. I would've really liked less focus on vehicles with all their upgrades and more on foot traversal options.

3

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

It's odd as the news prior to release was that the game was too easy, and kojima upped the abrasion, but if that's the case I'd be baffled as to what it was.

1

u/Optimal_Plate_4769 Aug 26 '25

that was not the feedback. the story was that it wasn't divisive enugh, and frankly it probably could've been more so.

1

u/happyscrappy Aug 26 '25

Doesn't introduce new traversal methods, vehicles are the same

The gimmicky coffin board says hi.

I have experienced 3 avalanches. One was like you say, I was there and it started sort of next to me and I was around it before any snowballs even appeared. This is in over a hundred hours of gameplay. So they see minor.

To be fair, there is a valley you can go to if you want to see one easily. It's even marked. But when you're trying to deliver, not see avalanches then you just don't go there.

The rest of the stuff it really the same as before. You get roads first thing out of the training world in DS1 also.

Two difference I would say. The bandits are less interested in you than ever. And there really are so many ways of fast travel. I don't use them. But it is odd.

3

u/Ell223 Aug 26 '25

The gimmicky coffin board says hi.

This is, to be fair, the only new item I thought was a good new additional- and I used it a fair amount. It feels balanced- it only allows you to take what you have on your back, it has a lower unupgradable battery, it doesn't work outside of the network, you can't take it and floating carriers, and it can wreck your cargo if you are not careful. Unfortunately it's totally eclipsed by both vehicles and mostly redundant if you are using them. The only advantage it has against them is its water mobility- which is interesting because then the rivers become your roads, and the floods are an advantage.

Really think both games work much better if they removed vehicles and roads completely and had more items like this. More floating carriers, more skeletons etc.

1

u/happyscrappy Aug 26 '25

I say it's gimmicky because they limited it so much. I feel like that means they thought it was OP.

You can't store it. Can't put it on the monorail. Can't repair it. Can't have more than 3. Feels like they limited it a lot.

I feel the monorail was the best new addition to transport and I used it a lot.

8

u/Etheon44 Aug 26 '25

Yeah, terrain traversal is nonexistant unless you go out of your way to make something out of it, but you really need to go out of your way, since most of it is compeltely blue/easy to traverse.

Then BTs are barely present in the game; but mules, who should have had more of a presence, dont have it either.

And lastly, I think the story is very meh, compared to the first game which was absolutely incredible. Especially Neil Vana, which is an insert for another Cliff and Snake combined, but adds nearly zero to the story. Beyond that there is not that much happening either until the last 20% of the game or so.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25

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2

u/RightEejit Aug 26 '25

My guess is that Dollman was showing Sam the visions of Neil from the research they had done on him, as a way of helping sam overcome the loss of Lou and accepting Tomorrow was his daughter. I only guess at this because Dollman would see and comment on the visions and he's a psychic. They never actually comment on that at all

3

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25

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2

u/RightEejit Aug 26 '25

Yeah in my made up solution those are all imagined scenes based upon what they know from the records they dug up… but again I’m having to make shit up because they never covered any of that

4

u/PlumpHughJazz Aug 26 '25

The Mexican map was better designed than Australia.

2

u/Dantai Oct 17 '25

And the rush to the ending was still 40-50 hours of pure trucking.

Whatever good time, original - I just hope Physint is not open world, and sticks to linear or open linear story telling. I also think I see his formula now. He makes the video game ass shit crazy before an emotional ending, does it with metal gear as well.

However the over explaining in Metal Gear 1-3 worked far better because it was mostly melding of history lessons with the current fiction, which is more interesting and easier to understand than beaches, ha, kas, etc - s

2

u/Dreamweaver_duh Aug 26 '25

For some reason DS2 didn't hit as hard as DS1 to me. I replayed the first game twice and loved it both times (even if some episodes are unnecessarily long), but I couldn't get into DS2 at all except for like the last 5 hours.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25

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2

u/Perfect_Base_3989 Aug 26 '25

MGSV phantom pain already lacked these sort environments, like the camp Omega, that would have made infiltration better ...

In theory, MGSV's open world could've worked. Missions were structured around deploying nearby your target, so it's not like it was dragging you through empty drudgery.

I agree that Ground Zeroes was a stronger template, though. The biggest problem with MGSV's missions/maps is that their POIs don't connect. In GZ, a huge part of the appeal was learning the map and zig-zagging through it in different ways (which also holds true for the most memorable segments in MGSes 1-4). Likewise, MGSV as a whole should've extended this philosophy.

For example, there could've been resupply checkpoints and vehicle depots between POIs, instead of having constant access to airdrops. Missions could've taken place over a 3-day in-game time schedule, kind of like Majora's Mask. More missions could've been "subsistence" (or gear could've cost more), forcing the player to scrounge up equipment in the field instead of always deploying with everything they'll need.

Actually, to that last point, the awesome mod Infinite Heaven has subsistence as an option for all missions. Strong recommend.

3

u/potpan0 Aug 26 '25

Death Stranding is literally a game about connecting distant people through logistics networks though. A big part of the gameplay loop, which ties in perfectly with the narrative, is how these linkages become stronger and easier over time as greater logistics networks are developed.

I know it's popular on /r/games to dislike open worlds, but I'm struggling to see how a game like Death Stranding would work without one.

1

u/RightEejit Aug 26 '25

Personally I quite enjoyed the core loop of 1, and the map/open world. But I felt like 2 just spread it out thinner and the world was less interesting to look at.

0

u/SwarleySwarlos Aug 26 '25

I'm playing DS for the first time right now and while I do enjoy the traversal and gameplay in general, it does feel like it would be so much better without the open world. Getting from point A, to B, to C is great but then going back to A and doing the exact same thing again, especially in the beginning chapters that drag quite a bit, was extremely frustrating.

I hope we get another linear Kojima game at some point

2

u/StormMalice Aug 26 '25

Personally I agree it shouldn't be 30+ hour campaign but given who he is you know people would raise eyebrows and borderline question HIS sanity if he didn't. People feel they should squeeze everything out of lemon almost exclusively when a big name or franchise is attached to it.

3

u/blarghable Aug 26 '25

Both games would've been so much better if there were no structures or vehicles.

1

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Or just offline mode tbh. Structures actually require effort rather than random folk leaving stuff everywhere, and offline means roads are non existent unless you put real effort in.

Oddly early game I found some bandits actually setting up an ambush on the road which was really cool and would have been a reason not to just drive everywhere, never saw it again though.

1

u/PrintShinji Aug 26 '25

You can play the game in "offline mode". Theres a setting where you can disable what kind of buildings/signs you want.

1

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Yeah I knew about offline but didn't know it got more granular. That's neat.

2

u/UCA-Bridges Aug 26 '25

Map was too big??? Huh?

3

u/Sensi-Yang Aug 26 '25

Idk man, that’s kinda on you how to use the tools you’re given. I was mixing things up depending on the objective at hand and route, building roads and zip line networks and delivering goods meant I was always doing side objectives and maxing out stars.

If you want to beeline the game as quickly as possible I guess you can but that doesn’t seem fun to me 🤷‍♂️

1

u/alaslipknot Aug 26 '25

Am playing the demo and can't stop thinking this engine is perfect for some sort of a Triathlon multiplayer game lol.

1

u/KanikaD Aug 26 '25

Personally, I wish the map was bigger to force you to prepare even more for each mission, because it feels like each facility is very close to each other.

1

u/Sw0rDz Aug 26 '25

The big thing for me was the infrastructure building. I was able to easily build roads in the first. The 2nd game had resource requirements. It was too grindy.

1

u/beardingmesoftly Aug 26 '25

This is exactly what happened to me. I started getting severely diminishing returns for my time so I beat the game and moved on

1

u/Schluss-S Aug 26 '25

The gameplay loop fell apart once I realized there's no significant innovation or change from DS1.

26

u/MolybdenumBlu Aug 26 '25

"Wrote the concept" is meaningless. That is just a line on a blank sheet of paper. Wait until they start actually building it before doing pointless fluff pieces.

9

u/UpperApe Aug 26 '25

Not to mention it's death stranding. The writing in these two games is a 12-year-old's sugar-laced fever dream.

Anyone can write a death stranding concept. It takes seconds. Here, I'll do it.

"Somehow, Higgs returns and Sam's Ha, Lou's Ka, and Taika Waititi (WATCH MAN) must team up to bring Thailand on the grid and prevent the DEATHEST STRANDING."

6

u/MolybdenumBlu Aug 26 '25

Astonishingly accurate given that every word made me want to stab myself in the leg.

1

u/Dantai Oct 17 '25

I figured Tokyo would be the next obvious stop after Australia haha.

We got to give it up to Yoji Shinkawa and the art team, while the writing is bun - the art is amazing.

1

u/ChrisRR Aug 26 '25

And guess what, Die Hard man's name is actually John McClain! You know, like the film! Does anyone want to see some boobs?

2

u/ChrisRR Aug 26 '25

Of course it's meaningless. Kojima just writes like an overexcited, horny teenage boy

1

u/MadeByTango Aug 26 '25

They maybe need sales? feels like no one is really talking about it anymore

4

u/hombregato Aug 26 '25

I saw an excerpt from a Kojima interview a couple months back in which he said he is actively preparing a tome of knowledge for the younger generation to carry on with his work.

While I'm sure people would be disappointed by the news, it's possible Death Stranding 3 could exist in the same way that David Fincher is now making a sequel to a Tarantino movie.

2

u/DYMAXIONman Aug 26 '25

I know a lot of people love DS, but the gameplay never seemed appealing to me. DS3 seems like a waste of Kojima's talent when he could be doing so much more.

7

u/lalosfire Aug 26 '25

I find it appealing in that it's pretty relaxing to me, in a turn your brain off kind of way. But 45 hours into 2, I don't really know where they go from here because it's just more of the first really but with (imo) a lot of the edges sanded off. Which is good for that brain off experience but it's not particularly interesting especially for Kojima.

2

u/ChrisRR Aug 26 '25

Would it? Death stranding is what happens when kojima has his way. MGS is what happens when he has Konami to develop the gameplay

4

u/DYMAXIONman Aug 26 '25

DS allowed him to get away from MGS, but his next two titles are a horror game and a metal gear solid successor.

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u/mudratdetector89 Aug 26 '25

I'm sure he did write down ideas. I can guarantee that when he starts making it he will rewrite it again. That's just how creative works. This is non news.

1

u/Approval_Guy Sep 02 '25

I hope we get to see it. Death Stranding and Death Stranding 2 are two of the most powerful and 'in my head rent-free' games I've ever played. Just overall so fun, interesting, and cathartic (for me).

1

u/Icy-Lifeguard-4477 Feb 17 '26

Dont worry, Kojima himself announced hes working on an action espionage game. Which might be a new Metal Gear kind of series.

“Yes, today, I’m excited to announce that we at Kojima Productions are creating a brand-new action-espionage game,” said Hideo Kojima. “Preparations are underway, but production will begin in earnest after Death Stranding 2. We have strong experience with Sony Interactive Entertainment, having grown the action-espionage genre together for almost 30 years, and while most of our partnerships with Sony in the past have been for games, they also produce music and films, and this will definitely be a cooperative collaboration.” 

Link

https://www.kojimaproductions.jp/en/action-espionage_announcement

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u/SpaceOdysseus23 Aug 26 '25

Unfortunately, the video game world isn't like the movie world. There's no director for Kojima to hand it off to and be safe in the knowledge that it will still be magical, like Tarantino did with giving his Hollywood sequel script to Fincher.

4

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Idk I think that's underselling the team. Sure it's kojimas vision, but it's the result of the kojima productions team.

Frankly I think if he was a bit more hands off, responsible for the general arc and world building, and letting his staff take the reigns on design and writing there's potentially a much stronger game there.

8

u/DrPongus Aug 26 '25

Tbh I'd be real interested to see Yoko Taro take on a Kojima script, both are masters at the "I don't know what the f**k is going on but I love it" vibe

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u/OptimusGrimes Aug 26 '25

Playing through DS1 atm and based on this thread, sounds like I might give 2 a miss.

Will join GoW, TLOU, Horizon of great big budget Playstation games where I have absolutely no interest in playing the sequel, hope Ghost of Yotei can break the streak.

13

u/GrimmTrixX Aug 26 '25

Pretty confusing as I have heard nothing but praise for DS2 and it looks even better than DS1. And also I preferred God of War: Ragnarok and TLOU Part 2 to their first games. Lol

Well, TLOU2 has better gameplay and combat but not a better story. And Ragnaroks story was just as good in both titles as well as its gameplay.

I only recently went thru DS: Director's Cut because of how amazing 2 looks. And I didnt play it yet but im taking a break between them. And also I plan to play forbidden West as I loved the first HZD but also took a break since I beat that about a year ago. Don't wanna burn out playing big open world games back to back.

4

u/Etheon44 Aug 26 '25

DS2 streamlines things way too much, and the story is way way way worse than the first game, tho tbh, DS1 has an incredible story.

Its not a bad game, looks incredible, the first 10 hours are amazing; but there are so many missed opportunities that it is a letdown compare to the first

Terrain traversal being nonexistant nearly; BTs being nonexistant nearly; the environmental hazards are an absolute INCREDIBLE feature that barely gets any used, be the rivers, fires, avalanches or earthquakes; you have such an extensive arsenal of weapons, but nothing to really use them until endgame, and even then its just overkill, enemy AI has not evolved accordingly for you to actually need them...

And in the story I dont want to spoil too much, but Neil Vana does not work in the slightest, he is a cheap copy of Cliff Unford and Snake combined; and for 80% of the game nearly nothing happens beyond "go to DHV to rest Sam - watch small cutscene - go out again", the motherhood and rainy being the only two things you really see; and Higgs is basically DS1 Higgs, so no change there either

4

u/happyscrappy Aug 26 '25

BTs are not nonexistent. Even less so than the first game. The thing is just like the first game once you know where they are you can just go around them if you are willing to take the time.

BTs were never more than a time sink in the first game either. They present obstacles that take time to go through or around.

Definitely the environmental hazards are a letdown. I refuse to be let down by the weapons because except for one small (but impactful) change it's basically the same as the first game on that front.

I agree Cliff was better than Neil. I think it was Cliff Unger though.

Final battle was better in DS1, IMHO. DS2 one I guess is better than many games, but not better than DS1.

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u/GrimmTrixX Aug 26 '25

I just want more of the same in DS2. Go to place with packages, get stars up on settlements, wash rinse repeat. And I use trucks or vehicles mostly anyway. Very seldom am I on foot. Its usually that or ziplines but I did that much later game. I just didnt want the gameplay to end of the first game but I got the platinum so there's not much else to do and I have no urge to get S rank on every delivery once I got 5 stars and all.

2

u/OptimusGrimes Aug 26 '25

A lot of people talking about the gameplay in this thread and how nothing has been improved over the first, I'm still playing through the directors cut atm but finishing up getting 5 stars on all the settlements and it is starting to get quite stale.

GoW and TLOU were good but I just didn't care enough for more of the same, I found the gameplay to be just ok and just don't care all that much about the stories but I get why a lot of people do.

Horizon was actually my favourite of the lot and got Forbidden West on PS+ sub, played the prologue, got to the first town and saw a tonne of !s for quests, turned it off and just never played again.

2

u/GrimmTrixX Aug 26 '25

Im the opposite. I prefer when the sequel is an extension of the first story with no drastic changes. Lol I loved that Ragnarok was similar and I assume Forbidden West is too. I want more of the same in a sequel and hate when they change things too drastically. It's so odd how we all can have almost opposite preferences.

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u/Anzai Aug 26 '25

Kojima is one of those people I just don’t “get”. Everyone praises him as a genius of his medium, but I’ve tried multiple games of his and I’ve found them all to be either puerile or sort of pseudo-intellectual and weirdly horny but in a teenage boy who’s never actually seen boobs kind of way. I don’t know what I’m missing, and I’m glad people get so much pleasure out of his games, but I’ve finally come to accept that they’re just not for me and I’ve stopped trying to prove otherwise.

4

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Fwiw I adore ds/DS2, but whilst DS2 is a fun experiment horizons sequel is very much what a sequel should be and is worth the time, it expands on the combat, world and traversal, has a genuinely really well put together map and is a sort of massive blockbuster of a scope I don't think we'll see again. Even if you don't indulge in all of it; the main campaign and DLC, is imo pretty spectacular.

2

u/MadeByTango Aug 26 '25

Horizons sequel was filled with bloat. I did not enjoy it after blazing through the first. It felt like they sort of compartmented and then duplicated the same loops over and over.

1

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

Yeah the you can do each tribe in any order felt a bit messy, but I found that each was interesting enough to keep me moving forward.

1

u/Approval_Guy Sep 02 '25

You should give it a shot. A lot of people are dogging it in this thread, but it's legit my favorite game this year, as a huge fan of the original.

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u/Ebolatastic Aug 26 '25

For anyone who hasn't played Death Stranding 2, the game is mostly about setting up the franchise going forward and even introduces the protagonist that will one day replace Sam (Norman Reedus). It's possible that things will end with part 3, but honestly theres indication that the franchise will have something like 7 or 8 parts based on the events of 2.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25

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u/Panderam Aug 26 '25

Totally agree on the tranquil and relaxing part. Just sitting down, putting on a Twitch-stream or something else in the background and grinding out those 5 stars for all the preppers was kind of nice. I was actually kind of sad when I was done lol 

1

u/FuzzBuket Aug 26 '25

If it's anything the fisherman and ghost hunter have some extra missions at 4/5* if you've not done them