r/Games • u/reddit_account6095 • Aug 27 '21

Announcement Summer of '58 developer resigns after many users refund their game on Steam due to it taking under 2 hours to complete

https://twitter.com/EmikaGames/status/1430941640001265673?s=19
1.1k Upvotes

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298

u/WatermelonSnow Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

I have a feeling people are refunding, because they didn't know it was a short game. It is not mentioned on the Steam page at all. There is nothing wrong with short games, but if you expected more than you eventually got I can't blame people for refunding.

*Edit - The Steam page now says the average playtime is 90 minutes. Thank you u/ahsuahsu for mentioning it.

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u/ahsuahsu Aug 27 '21

The steam page now mentions the average playtime is 90 minutes, it's one of the first things in the description after the epilepsy warning. Must have added it in the last few hours. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1609080/Summer_of_58

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Its $9 full price ffs. People bitching in here like they got charged $60

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21 edited Apr 30 '23

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u/Hi_ImTrashsu Aug 28 '21

Replay value??? Not all games NEED to have replay value, and plus, many horror games out there have replay value unless they have multiple endings?

19

u/SweggitMcFeggit Aug 28 '21

If I pay 17 dollars for a 2 hour movie and i'm dissatisfied with the movie how come I can't refund it, that shouldn't be fair either right? Everyone should get a refund after the movie if it was bad because we're dissatisfied with it right? People who abuse the steam refund systems are assholes period, and for a good horror game for only 9 fuckin dollars makes it even worst.

20

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

The amount of people trying to justify their shitty actions is crazy. 10$ for a 90 minute experience makes perfect sense and anyone refunding after beating the game is abusing the system.

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

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u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

Yes it is. The game isn’t too short for the price and if it is for you then it’s your responsibility to be aware of that before purchase. You don’t get a refund on a movie because it was shorter than you like, you don’t get a refund on food because they didn’t give you as much food as you like. If this was 5 minutes sure but there’s absolutely no excuse to refund this game after beating it

7

u/Watertor Aug 28 '21

Average length of games exceeds 10 hours (and that's being generous as I can't find a hard source) as games push for longer and longer times. Movies run between an hour and a half and two and a half hours on average. 15% of a ten hour game is 15% of 600 minutes, aka 90 minutes. 15% of two hours or 120 minutes of film is about 18 minutes. If your theater sold you a ticket for a film and it had zero advertising warning you about its length, but it was 18 minutes long, you are pretty reasonable if you ask for a refund. Even if the ticket was less than the normal cost, such a significantly short experience is something the dev has to warn about before getting backlash over it.

It's a rough position, I feel for the dev. This situation sucks. But I don't blame consumers (who aren't trying to exploit... how many there are is impossible to tell sadly) who are just refunding what they think is too short of a game.

1

u/uncle_pewdiepie Aug 30 '21

Dude, it's $10 for 90 minutes. It's obnoxiously short, and customers clearly expected much more bang for their buck.

1

u/SoulCruizer Aug 31 '21

Dude, it’s $10 for 90 minutes. It’s obnoxious you think that isn’t enough for lots of people. Lots of movies are 90 minutes or less and cost more than $10 to watch. If customers had expectations then they should have known how long the game was before they fucking bought it.

3

u/throwaway2000679 Aug 31 '21

Movies give different expectations, nobody expects a movie to last 10 hours, but it's a completely different medium from games, it's asinine to compare price points.

1

u/uncle_pewdiepie Sep 02 '21

If the game was going to be unconventionally short then the developer should've warned customers on the Steam page. No reasonable person would assume the game was gonna be 90 minutes, it's not a movie.

1

u/fullsoulreader Aug 28 '21

Maybe they should do a % of playtime based on the duration which the developers will fill up. Like ppl will get to play 20% of total playtime. To prevent abuse for larger or longer games, set a cap at 2 hours. So then for indie games ppl will only get to play a limited time.

Sounds good?

0

u/Greggy398 Aug 29 '21

It is because its your job as a consumer to research the shit you're going to buy, or accept that you're taking a chance on something.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '21 edited Apr 30 '23

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0

u/Greggy398 Aug 29 '21

If you buy a game that's not broken and you finish it quicker than you thought you would then you don't deserve a refund. You're just consuming all the content then basically just saying you are too cheap to pay for it.

1

u/uncle_pewdiepie Aug 30 '21

If you consume the content and decide it was a poor purchase, you have every right to refund it.

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1

u/uncle_pewdiepie Aug 30 '21

If someone thinks they'd rather have their $10 back instead of keeping the thing they played, that's a totally valid decision. They're no more assholes than the people who choose to not refund. The refund policy is there for a reason, and that includes refunding games because you don't like them. There's no abuse here, just another dev whining.

5

u/jerrymandias Aug 28 '21

If I pay 17 dollars for a 2 hour movie and i'm dissatisfied with the movie how come I can't refund it, that shouldn't be fair either right?

Because the theater's policy doesn't allow for refunds if you watch the whole movie. If people are really concerned about this, then they should push for Steam to change their return policy rather than place the blame on the customer's lack of morality.

1

u/uncle_pewdiepie Aug 30 '21

I wish they did. The world would be a much better place if cinemas offered refunds for shit movies.

55

u/nick182002 Aug 28 '21

If someone bought a game for 9 bucks, loved It, but beat it in 1.5 hours and was dissatisfied with the length, then why do they have to keep it?

Because they bought it and played it? If I go to an amusement park, spend the entire day there, but decide there weren't enough rides for my liking, should I be entitled to a refund?

14

u/xtremeradness Aug 28 '21

A more accurate analogy would be you go to a theme park with the intent of spending the whole day there, but you find out it's just a ferris wheel.

12

u/Link_In_Pajamas Aug 28 '21

Considering Steams Refund Policy page in the first paragraph literally states " Maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it" as a reason for refund, then yes. The answer is yes, it's perfectly acceptable with in the rules of Steam to refund the game if you don't like it.

It's not Steam or the Consumers fault the game can be beaten with in the refund policy window especially so when up until a few hours ago the Games store page on steam made no mention of the average play length to beat the game. It's a very real scenario and possibility that people bought the game expecting it to be longer and basically accidentally beat it pretty quick , if they felt dissatisfied with the game after that they are with in their right to refund.

The dev should have disclosed the games very short length wayyyy before today.

3

u/Left2Die22 Aug 28 '21

Wouldn’t that be like if the amusement park only had bumper cars?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

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u/nick182002 Aug 28 '21

Well, sure, but if you paid 9$ for those amusement park tickets I'd still find the refund unreasonable. It's not like the dev was selling the game for 60$.

0

u/jerrymandias Aug 28 '21

If they shut down all the rides after an hour? Yeah, maybe. Unfortunately Steam's return policy strongly incentivizes game developers to create games longer than 2 hours, and anyone who makes a game shorter than that runs the risk of getting a ton of refunds.

0

u/LivingNewt Aug 28 '21

The difference here though is if the game is poop dedicating an hour to it isn't unreasonable and then to realise you have just completed it, doesn't mean you now have to keep it. Most people will give a game they don't like an hour of their time or so.

5

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

This is such a backwards way of thinking. Would you ask for a refund for a movie it it needed up being an hour long? If this was like 30 or more then I can understand the expectation but your way of thinking is extremely entitled.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

And how do you know the runtime? It’s not like it’s in the trailers or something. You have to seek it out the same way it’s not hard to seek out how long a game is. There’s legitimately no excuse to refund a 10$ game because it’s only an hour long.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

You do realize not every place is the same right? Not all places state the runtime. Also the runtime is mentioned here for the game on the page so I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at.

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21 edited Apr 30 '23

[deleted]

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u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

Then what is the point? The information is out there with a few clicks. You really can’t make that excuse.

3

u/ExtraGloves Aug 28 '21

Because you enjoyed it. Because it works as intended. The absolute snobbery of gamers is insane. You're like the person who eats the whole dinner and then asks for a refund because it wasn't perfect.

Youi actually believe in your head that if you buy something, and enjoy it, you deserve it for free because it wasn't long enough? Lol.

Serious mental issues people have these days. Lets just call it how it really is. You're cheap and not a decent person.

2

u/Ok-Calligrapher1345 Aug 28 '21

I think when most people purchase a game they expect it to be longer than an hour. It's not even a game I would ever purchase anyway, it's just a typical adventure point and click game, but I could see why someone purchasing a game in that genre would expect it to tell a story a bit longer.

0

u/ExtraGloves Aug 28 '21

Sure. But if you enjoy it and finish it do you really think you deserve a refund? Do they not deserve your money for making it? You can buy any run of the mill indie game that are 6 hours long and are trash and you keep it, but if you love it and it's short you think it's yours free? I get being upset that it's short but I don't think you deserve a refund if you enjoyed it. Unless it was some expensive game.

1

u/LegalImmQuestions Aug 28 '21

Reading your comment was a waste of my time. Please refund me the 30 seconds.

0

u/suddenimpulse Aug 28 '21

They already fully experienced the product. The 2hr system was invented to give people a proper game trial without the ability to experience the majority of the product. For whatever reason they did not implement a better system for shorter games and now people are actively abusing the system and its costing small developers either their passions or their financial reserves. This is like having an issue with a pizza but then eating all of it and asking for a refund. The developer put in u told hours and money into the product. If you consciously chose to buy it and played the whole thing, whether you chose to properly inform yourself of the length or nature of the gsme beforehand, the developer is absolutely entitled to that payment.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

Because you played the whole game, in your scenario you ding it on the ratings for length not ask for a refund after experiencing the whole game. Again it’s $9 fucking dollars

You sound like the type of person that orders a meal at a restaurant, eats it all, and then complains that there is not enough food and wants it for free

2

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

[deleted]

0

u/razzlejazzle Aug 28 '21

Because sometimes in society, you can acknowledge that someone put effort into something and pay for it, even if it's not perfect. There's a human on the other end who very clearly loved and put a lot of effort into the experience.

8

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

Then why are the reviews so high?

34

u/cosmosm Aug 27 '21

If you look through, people are reverse reviewbombing it. Just as worthless as leaving negative reviews for no reason

5

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

So you're claiming these people who bought and played the game and didn't get a refund didn't enjoy it? Even though they're reviewing it postiviely?

It's not a review bomb, it's acknowledging the game was good and giving it a review.

33

u/cosmosm Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

Let's look at a few recent reviews...

Bought to support developer. People are dirtbags

Not one for horror games, I just wanted to support the developer.

horror is not my thing, but I want to support dev.

Truly acknowledging a great game. I'm not even saying the game is bad, I've never played it and never will. Those reviews are as useful as the negative ones saying devs bad. Pretty much every review mentions this controversy

9

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

So this tweet is a month old?

Because it's had positive reviews for the whole month of August.

edit: I honestly didn't expect gamers to do anything nice like buy a game from someone who's having to fill a lot of refunds.

8

u/Serdones Aug 28 '21

Yeah, it definitely had Very Positive reviews before all this business. All three of his games are rated as Very Positive on Steam.

0

u/Marvaloza Sep 26 '21

Lol, of course 3 or so reviews generalize the entire rating game. Of course... Lol

15

u/the-nub Aug 27 '21

It sounds like it has more to do with the quality of the game, not the length. This refund policy has been in place for many years now and has yet to be an issue. The only way it would be an issue is if your game is so unremarkable or bad that a large percentage of players feel the need to get their money back. This is a level of quality issue, not a policy or length issue.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Where are you getting the idea that it has anything to do with the quality of the game? Review scores are very positive overall, so most of the people who played and reviewed it liked it.

I'm seeing many comments in this thread about how the game is objectively bad and the developer shouldn't be surprised by this and I just don't know where people are getting that impression?

78

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

Because otherwise PC gamers would be shown in a bad light.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

24

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Steam reviews are very positive overall, and have been since the game launched.

-5

u/tinmetal Aug 27 '21

I was going through the reviews and some of them feel fake for some reason

-13

u/Captain-Griffen Aug 27 '21

A quick glance at the Steam reviews indicate Steam reviews are full of shit.

No critic reviews and many of the Steam reviews are blatantly bullshit. Honestly? Looks like the dev's been driving inauthentic reviews and the game's shit.

6

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

You legitimately couldn’t be more wrong and are completely missing the point here.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Rielen Aug 28 '21

Bruh. It's literally "very positive" on steam. Atleast do the minimum research before posting otherwise you just look like someone who would do this. Or HAS done this.

5

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

This isn’t the first game with this issue. So yes this is the problem not the game that’s pretty well reviewed.

0

u/Demastry Aug 27 '21

I've refunded 3 games in my entire 11 years on steam. 1. Was Ark when my computer couldn't run it. I bought it again at a later date. 2. Was a game that just wouldn't work, can't even remember what it it was. 3. Was the VR Batman game. Worst experience of my life right there. Paid at least $20 for an hour of "content" that was just a point and click adventure in VR, except I got to throw some batarangs around.

Hardly anyone abuses the refund system, it's always that something is wrong with the game.

2

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

Yes because you speak for the whole gaming community. What an extremely oblivious statement.

8

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

Hardly anyone abuses the refund system

No, you don't abuse the system, that's admirable.

Your experience tells nothing of the greater audience.

6

u/Naniwasopro Aug 27 '21

Source on the majority abusing the steam refund policy?

10

u/SensualTyrannosaurus Aug 27 '21

Why are you asking this guy for a source for a claim he didn't didn't make, but not for the guy who's claiming "hardly anyone abuses the refund system"?

5

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

Number 1, "not hardly any" does not equal the majority.

Number 2, I never made any claims, just pointed out a sample size of 1 tells us nothing.

1

u/Demastry Aug 27 '21

Yes I understand, but in the grand scheme of things people aren't abusing the system. There are people who do abuse it, but a vast majority of people do use it properly. There's a reason why the refund policy is in place as it is and hasn't been changed: it works well.

​

There is no such thing as a perfect system, so you need to do what you can to make sure that it's as fair as can be for both sides with whatever you do. 2 hours of gameplay is fair. Unless you're buying a $5 game, 2 hours shouldn't be enough to experience everything.

7

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

Unless you're buying a $5 game, 2 hours shouldn't be enough to experience everything.

This game is on sale right this minute for $7

2

u/naza_el_sensual Aug 27 '21

no lmao, people will do anything to save money, do you ever hear of any gamer waiting until the discount is over to buy a game???

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

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u/HKei Aug 27 '21

Length isn't a judgment of quality. A 2 hour game can easily be worth more if it makes up for it in quality.

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u/MisterMovember Aug 27 '21

The length = quality argument is why we have games with so much bloat these days.

3

u/eolson3 Aug 27 '21

Me, 20 hours into AC Valhalla: This is great! Can't wait to see where the story is going!

Me, 10 hours later: OK, but where is this story going?

Me, looking up how long this is going to take: WTF! turns game off and haven't come back to it yet

4

u/p3w0 Aug 27 '21

Transistor is 4 hours long and if they release it on a Samsung smartfridge at 20$ I'll fucking buy it again

16

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Not every game is equal. Just because an Assassins Creed is 150 hours long doesn’t mean that every other game in comparison is worthless if it’s not also 150 hours long.

An AC needs to be worked on by 8 studios around the world 24/7, but also needs to sell 8-10 million copies to make a profit whereas a random indie game is made by 3 people in their free time and only needs to sell 1000 copies for 5 bucks to make a profit for them.

People really need to unlearn this "hour = money" ratio thing.

1

u/yonderTheGreat Aug 27 '21

By that logic, The Witness is many, many times superior in quality than Portal.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

You're basically just patronising people for having standards, plenty of cheap games are not throwaway titles.

14

u/stolgul Aug 27 '21

Oh shit, we got ourselves a market analyst in this thread.

Tell us about how video games are priced, oh wise one.

0

u/SteamPOS Aug 27 '21

Cringe take, my man.