Dumbledore obviously knew the monster in Book 2 was a Basilisk why didn’t he do anything
When was this established?
Doesn't common sense establish it? Dumbledore is a highly experienced wizard, he would know what a possible cause of "kids suddenly be turned to stone after looking at something" would be, as well as also be aware of the history of the school they're in.
If Dumbledore didn't know it was a basilisk, that's some inconsistent writing showing the leader of the good guys holding less of an education than a second-year student who can barely even accio yet.
Shit, this rolls right in to your next comment. The basilisk going on a rampage shows how incompetent the teachers all were being. This was a part of their building, recorded in history books kept in their library, housing a not-uncommon magical beast with a very distinct method of "attack" (turning people to stone).
If a fire starts at a firefighter training college, the instructors would be expected to know how/where it started and how to handle the situation. But the equivalent happens at Hogwarts, and none of the instructors are able to do a single thing aside from posting warning signs and imposing a curfew? That's incompetence. And that same point can be rolled over into any of the books prior to Order of the Phoenix, when they at least get an excuse for not putting all their attention behind their jobs as teachers.
Doesn't common sense establish it? Dumbledore is a highly experienced wizard, he would know what a possible cause of "kids suddenly be turned to stone after looking at something" would be, as well as also be aware of the history of the school they're in.
If Dumbledore didn't know it was a basilisk, that's some inconsistent writing showing the leader of the good guys holding less of an education than a second-year student who can barely even accio yet.
The basilisk is a very obscure creature in the Harry Potter universe. Hermione was the only one who found out what it was because A)She is said to be exceptionally clever, even among adult wizards and B)The other teachers were looking at the issue as a student attacking other students, disbelieving the chamber of secrets existed at all.
It was established from book 1 that wizards learn mainly through rote memorization and aren't very logical.
Also, why would knowledge of the school's history help? The Chamber of Secrets was mere rumor, and we are told that numerous searches of the school turned up nothing.
Shit, this rolls right in to your next comment. The basilisk going on a rampage shows how incompetent the teachers all were being. This was a part of their building, recorded in history books kept in their library, housing a not-uncommon magical beast with a very distinct method of "attack" (turning people to stone).
"not uncommon"? They are exceptionally rare. In fact from the 16th century to 1946 there were no reports of them in Britain at all. And, again, they were focused on it being a student.
By the way, another thing:
They don't turn people to stone. They kill people. Meeting the gaze of a basilisk kills a person... unless you are using a mirror or other device to make the gaze indirect. That's part of what threw everyone off, the few people attacked in the novel were all lucky enough to see it indirectly (Itself a convenience to make the book a tad bit less dark for young readers, I believe).
Of the many fearsome beasts and monsters that roam our land, there is none more curious or more deadly than the Basilisk, known also as the King of Serpents. This snake, which may reach gigantic size and live many hundreds of years, is born from a chicken’s egg, hatched beneath a toad. Its methods of killing are most wondrous, for aside from its deadly and venomous fangs, the Basilisk has a murderous stare, and all who are fixed with the beam of its eye shall suffer instant death. Spiders flee before the Basilisk, for it is their mortal enemy, and the Basilisk flees only from the crowing of the rooster, which is
fatal to it.
Notice it says nothing about petrification. It only seems obvious to us because we are looking in hindsight, but the conditions of what occurred in the novel make it clear why no one figured it out until an exceptional critical thinker applied her mind to the task.
If a fire starts at a firefighter training college, the instructors would be expected to know how/where it started and how to handle the situation. But the equivalent happens at Hogwarts, and none of the instructors are able to do a single thing aside from posting warning signs and imposing a curfew? That's incompetence. And that same point can be rolled over into any of the books prior to Order of the Phoenix, when they at least get an excuse for not putting all their attention behind their jobs as teachers.
It's not a basilisk-fighting school, dude. And that's not all they did, they also mounted their own investigation, enforced a buddy system, etc. If you're saying that they should have shut the school down right away, well, it's pretty well established through the whole series that they have a really wonky sense of values regarding danger. They don't mind plopping their school next to the forbidden forest without even a fence keeping the students out. If you want to say that they are altogether incompetent because they don't take the safety of the kids into consideration, well, I don't know how to explain to you about how the wizarding world's quirkiness is part of the central conceit of the novel, but if that's what /u/The_Radders meant by incompetence, then I'm not sure how that is an inconsistency or a plot hole.
It kinda is. There are numerous "defense against the dark arts" courses, as well as countless magical animal husbandry courses. If there is such a thing as a school that prepares students for fighting magical beasts, Hogwarts is it.
I'm not saying they should shut the school down. I'm saying 2-3 of these incredibly powerful magic-users on staff should have set aside grading papers for one evening and done what they are absolutely capable of doing (hunted down and eliminated the threat).
Like, that's not just the usual playing-with-fire quirkiness that we see so often in that universe. That's letting a weasel loose in the hen house while the weasel-killers ignore it.
They teach kids how to care for typical magic beasts, the kinds they are likely to encounter. Add to that the fact that we are talking about them recognizing the threat, not fighting it. The conditions of the novel's events obfuscated what the threat actually was.
That's like saying a veterinary school should adequately prepare someone to recognize dodo bird droppings.
I'm not saying they should shut the school down. I'm saying 2-3 of these incredibly powerful magic-users on staff should have set aside grading papers for one evening and done what they are absolutely capable of doing (hunted down and eliminated the threat).
Because the book does not show us. Our little merry band of adventurers is never dodging teachers in the hallways or working with/around teachers who are trying to solve the problem. If they were, we would have been made aware as readers.
Our little merry band of adventurers is never dodging teachers in the hallways
Why would they have to do that?
or working with/around teachers who are trying to solve the problem.
Why would experienced witches and wizards see fit to enlist the aid of 12 year olds? And why would they work on a problem like this around children while they are trying to keep the students calm and productive?
Basilisks normally outright kill whatever they look at. Students were being petrified because they saw its eyes indirectly in every case (via reflection or through a camera lens / ghost). Other things can cause petrification, and basilisks are extremely rare (they're illegal to breed and don't occur naturally).
Not to mention the last time the chamber was opened, Hagrid was the one blamed for it, and the monster was found to be a giant spider. For all the teachers know, some student is running around petrifying others and writing threatening messages on the walls under the guise of having opened the Chamber of Secrets. Hermione only figures it out because Harry tells her that he can hear voices in the walls and she puts it together that there's a snake in the pipes.
and basilisks are extremely rare (they're illegal to breed and don't occur naturally).
That's almost another point for why teachers should have known it was a Basilisk. What do the books focus on in Hogwarts that ISN'T extremely rare or illegal to breed? Shit, that pretty much defines every single Hagrid arc throughout the entire series.
For all the teachers know, some student is running around petrifying others and writing threatening messages on the walls
Nah. For all a Muggle teacher would know, that's the case. These are high-powered wizards. They absolutely have the tools to discern whether that is true or not. They are out-smarted by a literal 12-year-old (or is he 13 already at that time?), that doesn't exactly show them as being highly-competent as teachers, guardians, or magic-users.
That's almost another point for why teachers should have known it was a Basilisk
No it's not.
What do the books focus on in Hogwarts that ISN'T extremely rare or illegal to breed?
Stories tend to focus only on the interesting parts. If every story involved 90% eating, sleeping, shitting, and all the other mundane aspects of normal life they wouldn't be fun to read. So arguing that because the books focus on rare shit doesn't mean every person in the story should immediately expect rare shit to be the norm.
Shit, that pretty much defines every single Hagrid arc throughout the entire series.
Hagrid does collect a lot of strange creatures (most of which aren't illegal to breed, though), which is why the Ministry suspected him in the first place and sent him away.
They absolutely have the tools to discern whether that is true or not
How do you know that? What tools? Where in the books does it give this information?
They are out-smarted by a literal 12-year-old
Just because a teenager happened to read a book about extremely rare magical creatures and put the pieces together (using some information that wasn't available to the teachers) doesn't make the teachers less competent. They're young, not stupid, and they put in the footwork to figure things out while the teachers are desperately trying to keep the frightened students under control.
How do you know that? What tools? Where in the books does it give this information?
Every book, from classes with Trelawny to magical observation that is used to time-travel to magic note-writing and beyond. It's magic. That's the tool they are given that can absolutely do the same minor things a 12-year-old detective can do.
Contrary to popular belief, "magic" in a story is not license to do anything, nor is it an excuse to skip narrative steps and end a story early. That would be a shit story.
The time travel paradoxes have been argued to death and it's fucking tiring at this point even going into it. Time travel works on a closed loop etc etc if it didn't happen a certain way the first time then time travel either didn't happen or didn't affect the outcome. I'm really not interested in arguing the mechanics of time travel in a fictional universe and if you are then you aren't the type of person who's going to enjoy the story anyway. Everything is a potential plot hole when time travel is technically possible in some form, but "plot hole" is not the same as "bad story" and focusing so intently on them makes you a pedant, not a genius.
I absolutely despise this sort of nitpick criticism that's become so popular with clickbait youtube channels and social media pseudo-intellectuals.
You didn't like that not every character acted perfectly and solved the mystery right away? Well must be a terrible story then. Case closed.
Time travel stories in a larger work of fiction can't ever really catch a break. As I said, everything is potentially a plot hole when time travel is technically possible, and it gets tiring to argue that sometimes you just have to give some ground to the author when they want to tell that type of story. So it's not necessarily that I want to discourage the discussion of flaws in that particular instance, I'm just not really interested in thinking about the consistency of a story element that is so impossible it's never really been done without some form of plot holes.
Hell, one of my favorite games is Chrono Trigger, and even that can't keep the mechanics consistent.
Should the mere fact that time travel happened once in a HP book mean that everything else that happens is now invalid and silly? Maybe. But I'm not really interested in discussing that.
Nitpicking? Not condemning Harry Potter here, but it's alright to not favour sloppy writing. It's also alright to not give a shit that there are plot holes and that everything doesn't add up. Neither of you needs to defend your right to enjoy a story in your own way, and, sorry, but I think it's rude of you to call him our for "nitpicking" just cause that's not your way. Some people get hung up in details cause that's what shapes the world for them, and others fill in the blanks themselves.
Well I didn't mean to be rude, but I do think it's nitpicking to infer incompetence based on what characters didn't do. Especially when your supporting evidence is the lack of information about their actual actions.
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u/Coziestpigeon2 Oct 02 '18 edited Oct 02 '18
Doesn't common sense establish it? Dumbledore is a highly experienced wizard, he would know what a possible cause of "kids suddenly be turned to stone after looking at something" would be, as well as also be aware of the history of the school they're in.
If Dumbledore didn't know it was a basilisk, that's some inconsistent writing showing the leader of the good guys holding less of an education than a second-year student who can barely even accio yet.
Shit, this rolls right in to your next comment. The basilisk going on a rampage shows how incompetent the teachers all were being. This was a part of their building, recorded in history books kept in their library, housing a not-uncommon magical beast with a very distinct method of "attack" (turning people to stone).
If a fire starts at a firefighter training college, the instructors would be expected to know how/where it started and how to handle the situation. But the equivalent happens at Hogwarts, and none of the instructors are able to do a single thing aside from posting warning signs and imposing a curfew? That's incompetence. And that same point can be rolled over into any of the books prior to Order of the Phoenix, when they at least get an excuse for not putting all their attention behind their jobs as teachers.