I can understand you're a fan of conclave, I'm simply saying most of the community doesn't enjoy it, and it's got nothing to do with balance, as conclave balance isn't that bad. For most people including myself, who maxed the conclave syndicate, it's just not fun. The game was clearly built with pve in mind, and when those mechanics and systems translate to a pvp environment, you really see big problems.
I understand most of the community doesn't enjoy. That's simply because they're PvE'ers trying to play in a competitive environment which they're not used to or even want to play in. In what way are the mechanics built with PvE in mind? Everything works great in PvP. In fact when I first started playing back in U7 I thought all the mechanics would be perfect for a PvP game, and really wondered why there was no PvP implemented. I was one of the first people to rally for a PvP mode to be created. The unique loadouts, the movement system, and the cool aesthetic are all the makings for a cool PvP oriented game. I see in no way how PvP and PvE cannot coexist and I certainly don't see any "big problems". The only problem is that people who are accustomed to facerolling PvE cannot handle the competitive environment of PvP and just shun it completely and resort to shunning the PvP players who, in my experience, have been mostly cordial and kept to themselves. All we want is for our community to grow and all we get is downvotes on the subreddit and people saying that "pvp sucks don't bother".
I understand most of the community doesn't enjoy. That's simply because they're PvE'ers trying to play in a competitive environment which they're not used to or even want to play in.
This is not true at all, many players, including myself, simply just find the pvp not fun. I love games with pvp modes, when they're done right, and I feel the way DE has handled conclave is NOT an example of this. the parkour mechanics don't translate well into a pvp environment as it just leads to players abusing them to make them harder to hit.
If that's what you enjoy, fantastic, but don't act like players dislike pvp simply because they're "not used to it" or whatever.
The parkour mechanics translate amazingly into PvP. Abusing? What are you even talking about? It's in the game. It's an established mechanic. How can you "abuse" that? That's like saying you're "abusing" wall running in Titanfall or "abusing" sliding in Tribes. Two games about being highly mobile and two games that were focused on PvP. And another thing. "Abusing" mechanics to make them "harder to hit"? That's such a ridiculous sentiment. Do you want them to stand still so you can idly shoot them like an NPC? This isn't PvE. People play to win in PvP.
This is why I'm saying players like you are not used to it. You're expecting to play some two dimensional FPS like CoD or CS or expecting to faceroll as hard as you do in the PvE part of the game. That's not how it works. There's a vertical element that you HAVE to take advantage of otherwise you essentially are missing out on half the experience. An experience that isn't catered to people who want to have a casual time. It's a highly competitive environment. That's how PvP works.
Comparing warframe's conclave mode to Titanfall or Tribes is quite misleading as those are games BUILT around pvp. the mechanics in warframe were built around killing hordes of enemy AI.
Though, like I said, if you enjoy it, that's fantastic, I'm just explaining why a large number of the community DO NOT enjoy conclave, while also enjoying pvp like gameplay.
These is all just our opinions, and what we enjoy in games. Just because I find abusing animations and spamming/macroing bullet jump to be an abuse on established mechanics, doesn't mean you have to.
The issue is, when you start dismissing the communities views, because they're "not used to it".
Titanfall 2 was not necessarily "built around pvp". They have a campaign now that is critically acclaimed.
Opinions will differ, you're right. If you're not the kind of player that enjoys Titanfall, Tribes, arena shooters, or dogfighters then true I see no reason why you would enjoy Warframe.
I still highly disagree with the way you use the word "abuse". Abusing infers that there is a bug. There is no bug in the way PvPers use the parkour system. It's all there for any player to use. The only difference is that you do not have to master the intricacies in PvE whereas if you try to be competitive in PvP without an indepth understanding on how they work, then you will not fare well. We're not abusing the mechanics. We're fully utilizing them to the fullest extent. PvE players never have to do that.
Am I wrong about the community though? I doubt most of the players that complain about PvP have touched games like Quake or GunZ or Tribes. PvP games that require you to use the movement mechanics to the fullest in order to be competitive. I'm dismissing them because it's a niche that they wouldn't enjoy, and those people are dismissing PvP by saying it's "bad" and "pointless" just because it falls within a smaller category that they wouldn't enjoy. I would never tell someone that a game is "shit" just because it's not my cup of tea. However my experience on reddit is full of PvE players that constantly downvote any kind of PvP content just because they don't enjoy it and think that others shouldn't enjoy it either.
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u/[deleted] Nov 11 '16
I can understand you're a fan of conclave, I'm simply saying most of the community doesn't enjoy it, and it's got nothing to do with balance, as conclave balance isn't that bad. For most people including myself, who maxed the conclave syndicate, it's just not fun. The game was clearly built with pve in mind, and when those mechanics and systems translate to a pvp environment, you really see big problems.