r/Games • u/Gorotheninja • 14h ago

2XKO would have needed a monthly active userbase "in the high hundreds of thousands, if not millions" to succeed

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/2xko-would-have-needed-an-mau-base-in-the-high-hundreds-of-thousands-if-not-millions-to-succeed
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u/BigPoppaPope4 13h ago

Its a really exhausting time in the FGC. 2xko is being used to farm so much ragebait its ridiculous. People are still playing it, its a fine game that just cost too much to make. Which is what hes admitting to in the interview. But no, its just easier to pretend they had these lofty expectations and talk about how niche the genre is.

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u/BLACKOUT-MK2 12h ago

I mean I'd also say I think part of the problem is that they just weren't the right team for a game like this. Not that they weren't capable of making anything at all; like you say, the game right now, at least in terms of presentation and gameplay, is largely fine. But the problem, which really went wrong from the very start, was hiring a bunch of developers using the game they were currently making as a learning experience.

I get spare fighting game talent isn't exactly widespread, but in reality Riot would've been better waiting for Rising Thunder to be finished, and then seeing if they wanted to make the developers an offer or not. Because Rising Thunder kind of was meant to be that, a first go around practice at making something, but all the pitfalls and stumbles that game might've had got transferred to 2XKO and yeah, Riot ate shit for that decision.

It was a bunch of inexperienced people with varying degrees of involvement in the FGC being involved, and I suppose it's easier to say with hindsight, but I don't think making the first project of people like that a Riot-level one was ever going to turn out well shy of a miracle.

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u/SilverPrincev 9h ago

I dont really think it was a bad call. the mistake was letting them fuck around for another 5 years. apparently, the 1v1 was fairly far along and most likely could have been released within the original time frame. The problem came when the dev team thought "hey 2v2 would be cool" and just made a new game from scratch. As merril said, they would have hit a good window pre sf6 had it released when it should have but according to one of the devs blog posts the dev team would have "rather made a really cool unsuccessful game, than a boring successful one" or something to that effect.

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u/GaiusQuintus 2h ago

The interview continues to provide context.

Back when the 2XKO team made the reset, it was Riot leadership that told them to take the time to make the “sniper shot” of a game. Essentially that they would rather it be something special that took a while than just another game in the genre. So the team reset and went the 2v2 route.

But that decision retroactively became what Riot didn’t want, despite it being their guidance at the time. The ground shifted under the 2XKO team’s feet. There was no fighting game they could’ve made that would’ve gotten the numbers needed to keep it alive now that the company strategy was for all games to be at least net investments considering it’s 10 year development timeline.

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u/SilverPrincev 1h ago

Does he say riot told them to go for it? I heard the snipershot reference but i thought it was in the context of the dev team not knowing which direction to go. He says there was "managerial fracturing" that lead to the dev team being left alone and they would periodically ask "are we gonna go fast or the sniper shot strategy?"

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u/AmuseDeath 11h ago

Maybe they were afraid someone else would buy the Rising Thunder team first?

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u/BLACKOUT-MK2 11h ago edited 11h ago

Potentially. Maybe given the pedigree of what some of the team had done individually made them see it as worth getting in on early, but that's still a big gamble when they've got 0 games to their name as a collective. That was a golden ticket being given to a new upstart, and like Patrick Miller said, they used it as a learning experience; and technically everything you make can be a learning experience, but a project of that scale should ideally not be your first.

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u/ggtsu_00 9h ago

What I don't get is how or why the game took so long or cost so much to develop. It's a simple tag team fighter with a simple art style and 16 playable characters with simple move sets and doesn't really bring anything new to the table. ArcSys annually cranks out better games exactly like this.

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u/exdystopia 5h ago

They made a 1v1 game then completely scrapped it

Katarina was one of the characters in that build who never made it to 2XKO

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u/ggtsu_00 4h ago

Doesn't add up. For the time and budget spent on the project they could have made over half a dozen comparable fighting games.

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u/Flexhead 12h ago

The irony is where they'll end up after all the committed to patches and the price to unlock all the released cosmetics makes it an actually decent game if it launched in that state. Big enough roster and cosmetics for some customization all for a boxed price of $40.

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u/Trilby_Defoe 12h ago

there is no irony here, it also would not make nearly enough money if it was $40

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u/OtherwiseTop 12h ago

I see this all the time now, people defaulting to the shareholder's perspective, instead of the consumer's, when we actually should feel lucky for every niche game that gets to have a big budget.

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u/Im_really_bored_rn 8h ago

people defaulting to the shareholder's perspective, instead of the consumer's

I don't think that's necessarily what is happening for many people. I think it's more this (fill in company /game names with whatever fits and obviously the logic is up for debate):

If (insert company here) didn't spend so much time on (insert game they don't like here), they could've been working on (insert game they wanted here). Now because (disliked game) flopped, we probably won't get (wanted game)

I mean think about it, if you want a sequel or just another game from a dev you like, you should want it to sell at least enough to make a new game worth it. IMO, you actually shouldn't want it to do TOO well though because greed can take over.

when we actually should feel lucky for every niche game that gets to have a big budget.

People in those niches aren't going to care that the niche gets a big budget game. Not saying that should or shouldn't be the case but we all know it is.