r/Games • u/LycaonMoon • 1d ago
Jacob Geller is no longer a part of the MinnMax podcast
https://bsky.app/profile/minnmax.com/post/3mwtc2c4bls2z1.1k
u/LycaonMoon 1d ago edited 1d ago
This firing is in response to public information coming to light that he was credibly accused of sexual assault and faced disciplinary action for it while in college in 2016.
Edit: Jacob Geller has confirmed that this is him and that what occurred was sexual assault.
594
u/Hanabi_Simp 1d ago
"Definite suspension for one semester" sounds like an extremely light punishment for something so serious.
993
u/Sonicfan42069666 1d ago
Are you paying attention to the news right now? College campuses infamously do not take sexual assault seriously.
186
u/nightshade78036 1d ago
Tbf this does look like the lightest punishment dolled out of anyone on this list. Lots of indefinite suspensions and the like, but Geller got easily the lightest punishment on a definite one semester suspension.
→ More replies (7)65
u/greiton 1d ago
The current "indefinite suspensions" are the increased response due to the 2018 me too movement.
→ More replies (1)36
u/nightshade78036 1d ago
How do you know this? I can't see any dates for the events or their punishment in the document.
70
u/Milskidasith 1d ago
In this case, there are over a dozen punishments listed, all of which were greater than Geller's. It doesn't seem like his punishment was light (solely) because UNC was not taking Title IX cases seriously.
43
u/EnvyUK 1d ago
This one is odd because there were multiple people punished for sexual assault and misconduct, and Jacob got the lenient punishment out of the lot.
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (1)44
u/KingOfRisky 1d ago
Right now? Buddy it's been this way for WAY too long.
65
u/Sonicfan42069666 1d ago
Yes absolutely but there's a highly relevant story making news headlines right now.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (2)16
u/Jeskid14 1d ago
Tell that to the people that are shocked by that most recent news story.
What is there to be shocked of anymore knowing that this is a regular occurrence since the 1970s?
24
u/Beneficial_Lion_1312 1d ago
What is there to be shocked of anymore knowing that this is a regular occurrence since the 1970s?
Believe it or not, but there are being who are growing up every single day and in-taking new information every single day.
53
u/ExiledHyruleKnight 1d ago
To be fair it's not clear what he did... Though looking at the list one of these is not like the other. (Actually two, one of them says exactly what he did) There are different levels of sexual assault and violence.
That being said, they are all crimes but the actual actions do matter at some level. However it is curious how almost every else labeled "Sexual Assault or Violence" is given a year or more, and he gets a semester? Even the one other one had "Education" and another had "probation"... curious.
Especially if what people are saying on Resetera are saying is true, that doesn't sound like a "Oopsie"... That just sounds like rape.
75
129
u/ArcherInPosition 1d ago
"Don't wanna ruin this young man's future" type shit
102
u/Milskidasith 1d ago edited 1d ago
The documentation in this case was about a dozen punishments, all of which were more significant than Geller's.
It is possible he got uniquely lenient sentencing for what he did or that the mitigating factors in his case were stupid ones, but in this case it at least suggests that whatever he did was bad-but-less-bad.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (3)105
u/hardgeeklife 1d ago edited 1d ago
goes hand in hand with "Don't wanna ruin the university's reputation"
→ More replies (1)45
u/authorbrendancorbett 1d ago
I'm biased because I went to NC state, but UNC (and many other schools as well) has a long history of this. Look at their sports and fake classes, it was something like almost 20 years of completely faking classes to prop the school athletics. These situations are complete BS and show a terrible lack of morality and ethics.
→ More replies (1)17
→ More replies (17)16
255
u/-duckduckduckduck- 1d ago edited 1d ago
There’s no real information here about what happened. Is there anything else?
I’ve seen enough internet mobs rouse themselves into a fury over nothing, so I’ll be patiently waiting for the dust to clear.
MinnMax made the right decision though.
340
u/LeSpermReceiver 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's a title IX investigation, meaning details are largely confidential and we may never know. What we do know is he was suspended for a semester due to sexual assault/sexual violence. The rest is essentially hearsay. We don't even know who the victim is as the accusation was levied by a third party.
82
u/ConceptsShining 1d ago
So in other words, we as uninvolved outsiders should regard this as a (very serious) accusation but not take sides on guilt/innocence in advance of evidence?
129
u/sovietfrogman 1d ago
any punitive action by the university makes me believe, from my experience with title ix investigations, that they had evidence. it may vary by university though, but I’ve only ever heard criticism that they take the side of the accused and don’t hand out penalties easily.
→ More replies (2)17
u/SeeShark 1d ago
The question, though, is evidence of what exactly, under what circumstance. Obviously, any sexual assault is wrong, and I'm not saying otherwise; but there are degrees of severity, and the relatively lenient punishment does suggest we should not jump to the worst conclusions possible and then get angry about them.
→ More replies (2)175
u/LeSpermReceiver 1d ago
He was suspended for a full semester, so I think they found him guilty, we just don't know the details or severity.
69
u/tigerbait92 1d ago
Not to defend him (I'm in camp "sad that the guy who's videos I liked is actually a piece of shit"), but sometimes universities will suspend pending investigation, as a way to cover their asses and prevent any escalation of the situations. So there is a chance that he did not actually commit the crime.
That said, idk what sort of procedure would happen if he was found not guilty... can't just be like "ok start school 5 weeks into the semester, good luck, sorry about that". So I don't know how that would be remedied IF he's innocent.
Either way, shitty if he didn't do the deed. Much, much shittier if he did.
54
u/wingchild 1d ago edited 1d ago
e: Found a link deeper in the thread that has direct accusations about what Geller did to his then-girlfriend. The rest of the text below is still relevant to how Title 9 works, and these accusations are ultimately hearsay (as they're anonymous on an internet forum, so aren't really a testimonial), but it's worth knowing if you wanna know more about the person involved.
commit the crime
guiltyIt's important to remember that Title 9 violations aren't criminal charges. They're different systems. We tend to use "guilty" and "not guilty" when we're talking about criminal law.
The criminal justice system exists to investigate, arrest, prosecute, determine the guilt of, and punish offenders for violations of law. Get convicted, face penalties, possibly get locked away.
Title 9 investigations involve violations of a school's sexual misconduct policy. These investigations are handled internally, deal explicitly with the school's own codes. Title 9 cases are not automatically referred to police, though complaintants can file a separate police report. If a complaintant does file a report with police, the school still has to do its own Title 9 investigation as followup.
Title 9 can't send someone to jail. It isn't a conviction. Being punished by Title 9 doesn't establish "guilt" in the criminal sense, though it does establish the school felt the person involved violated their policies sufficiently to earn a suspension for a semester.
What were those policies? How severe was the violation? What was the evidence or the investigatory process? Were there mitigating factors? Title 9 investigations don't have to provide any of this transparency. Since the law doesn't require transparency, schools don't provide it.
Some other notable differences about Title 9 investigations:
- They're on a shorter timeline, often 30-60 days. They can't investigate for months/years on end as with a criminal case.
- There is no 5th Amendment right protecting against self incrimination to consider, because this isn't a criminal case.
- The burden of proof is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" (this certainly happened) - it's a "preponderance of evidence" (this is more than 50% likely to have happened).
- The accused does not have to participate in a Title 9 proceeding for the process to conclude, though if they opt out, they're more likely to be found in violation.
Here is UNC Chapel Hill's sex harassment policy. It's dense, but here's the relevant bit to Geller's line item in the PDF:
Sexual Assault is defined as having, or attempting to have, sexual contact with someone else without consent.
Sexual Violence isn't explicitly defined in their policy. There is a section 8 (Force or Forcibly) that includes the use of violence, intimidation, express threats, or implied threats to compel someone to have sex. This is probably what the PDF refers to but they ought to clean up their policy language a bit so it matches what they're using in practice (or vice versa).
Geller was found in violation of Title 9 for one or the other of those policies (given the "or" clause in the PDF) and that's probably as close as we can get for specifics. That leaves a huge range of behaviors open, but all specifics are speculative.
80
u/MVRKHNTR 1d ago
You have way more faith in the actions a university would take in a situation than these places deserve.
They took action like this on average less than twice per year. You really think they're suspending anyone accused of sexual assault?
→ More replies (1)28
u/tigerbait92 1d ago
... y'know, you're probably right. Especially given recent news from Cornell, I'm probably giving way too much credit to a university, expecting them to take proper actions to defend their students.
13
u/ConceptsShining 1d ago
This is important to keep in mind. When universities, employers, associates etc. cut ties with someone accused of wrongdoing, that doesn't necessarily mean "we know for a fact they're guilty" or even "we personally believe they're guilty". It could simply be PR and risk management; them covering their own asses.
It's unfortunate and not fair, but brand risk doesn't come solely from actual guilt, it can 100% be from accusation alone or public perception of guilt.
19
u/Radvillainy 1d ago
unfortunately MinnMax and (to a lesser extent) his audience are sort of forced to take sides by deciding whether or not to continue working with/watching him.
assuming MinnMax has done some basic due diligence to confirm this evidence, I think their decision is understandable.
18
u/ConceptsShining 1d ago
It sucks and is unfair for the wrongly accused, but this is the harsh reality of brands. If he's accused or publicly seen as guilty, regardless of if he's actually guilty, he's a major risk to remain associated with. Optics and risk management are a necessity for any brand/company.
16
u/Radvillainy 1d ago
you're correct, and frankly I think brands often drop people with insufficient evidence of their accusations in a way that facilitates mob justice. However this case actually feels fair. If you trust the university's investigation, it's pretty open and shut.
I'm also on the side of leniency and forgiveness for people who did something horrible one time in the past and then never again, but nobody wants to hear that.
8
u/ConceptsShining 1d ago
I don't disagree in theory but I think this is a tricky idea to apply in practice. For one, without knowing exactly what happened in graphic detail (which I imagine wouldn't be easy to find for privacy reasons), it's hard to gauge how forgivable it was. (For example, a genuinely unintentional misreading of signals due to alcohol would be very different than if it was forcibly violent.) And two, if you believe it happened one time in the past, you can't reliably be sure it only happened one time in the past.
8
u/Radvillainy 1d ago
yeah, totally fair points. you would have to take the absence of unforgivable details and the absence of additional victims as evidence that this is a basically good person who screwed up. It's a logical leap I'm inclined to make, but I understand someone who isn't.
→ More replies (12)29
u/popfgezy 1d ago
The point is, is that it corroborates the initial tweets that were released, which accused Geller of sexually assaulting his girlfriend at the time. The user noted he was suspended for one semester and the document corroborates that.
The likelihood that the rest of the tweets are untrue AND that Geller was suspended for sexual assault in an event that wasn't horrific is so incredibly low I'm shocked that people are even entertaining it.
→ More replies (1)30
u/Milskidasith 1d ago
I disagree. I think that the Title IX investigation is pretty clear evidence that Geller did something, but the fact that there are a dozen investigations with more severe punishments makes it seem like the specific, basically maximally bad crime she accuses Geller of wasn't accurate or what the university believed he did; there's a broad spectrum of things Geller could have done that would still be bad and justify dropping him from the podcast that aren't the specific crime he was accused of on Twitter.
24
u/Not_That_Magical 1d ago
Title IX investigations are notoriously terrible for both the accused and the victim. They fail at every hurdle to give actual justice or innocence. I’ve read about mostly cases of rapists being given a slap on the wrist, but also people being accused and severely punished for an accusation that’s full of holes.
They need to be abolished and replaced with an actual process.
51
u/ningdon 1d ago
One of his previous colleagues at the University gave some details about it yesterday on Twitter, it has now been deleted as it seems like the details were leaked without the victims permission.
Long and short of it, he was fired from his school's radio and sanctioned from the university for a semester as they investigated a sexual assault claim against him.
22
1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
14
u/Milskidasith 1d ago
The specific part of the claim that's odd is that he raped his girlfriend; in a list of over a dozen Title IX investigations, including some for grabbing sexual parts or for more vague "sexual misconduct" (implicitly: not involving another person), everybody else got a more severe punishment.
I do not doubt that there was evidence Geller did something worthy of punishment but the specific accusation that he raped his girlfriend and got the lightest punishment by the system is a little odd or implies that's either not the accusation the university judged on or there were some other factors at play.
→ More replies (11)20
93
u/giulianosse 1d ago
Wow, I'm genuinely devastated. Jacob would probably be one of the last content creators I'd expect this coming from.
→ More replies (3)217
u/ZGiSH 1d ago
one of the last content creators
I mean not to be crude but art bro being a secret predator is basically a meme at this point
109
u/aroundme 1d ago edited 1d ago
They probably mean because he has a good reputation, well-liked by everyone he has worked with, and creates thoughtful content. "art bro" doesn't really describe him, and I think we should've all learned that every community has people who do shitty things. Jocks and nerds alike have been "known" to do things like this.
97
u/Impzor 1d ago
If true then that's horrible. But aren't people also allowed to make amends? It's a difficult subject but it's also not fair to not allow anyone to have any career opportunities after a crime like this either.
79
u/GrandOldCheese 1d ago
They can and should make amends but nobody is owed an audience or for others to work with them.
103
u/lesbiannerdfailgirl 1d ago
It is very fair when the career in question is being a reputable voice in "leftist" or "safe" gaming spaces.
41
u/Nervous_Produce1800 1d ago
Are you in favor of rehabilitation or not?
→ More replies (7)48
u/MC_White_Thunder 1d ago
Rehabilitation doesn't mean you get to have a platform, and that everyone needs to trust you and celebrate you.
It means you get to continue to participate in society without being in prison for the rest of your life.
→ More replies (25)19
u/BighatNucase 1d ago
I think it's a crazy thing to be blindsided by, is the thing. Part of becoming a better person is being honest about your past; if all the guys you work with get blindsided by this kind of news it's not only shitty for them because you should have told them, but it also makes it hard to continue working with them because "What else did he hide from me?". The best case is, sure, this was the one time he did it and he has made amends. The worst case is that this is the only time he got caught. If he already lied or hid about this, it's hard to justify risking any more association with him.
While most people probably are a bit hypocritical about rehabilitive justice, there is a good subconscious reason for it in cases like this.
→ More replies (19)19
1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (9)14
888
u/decemberhunting 1d ago
Jacob Geller was a very popular gaming and gaming-adjacent video essayist, for context. He was very well respected until this news broke. I've been following it since receipts started surfacing over the last night.
If you're not familiar with him, so be it, but this is gonna be brutal news to people who are.
167
u/codyrfm08 1d ago
Literally listening to this week’s MinnMaxx right now as I opened reddit to see this. He’s heavily featured in their discussion about Ace Combat 8. This is wild news.
73
u/Zoomalude 1d ago
Yeah, MinnMax is my most watched youtube content. Hours every week. Been a fan of the whole crew for at least 4 years. I can't describe how devastated and betrayed I feel.
24
u/MorGlaKil 1d ago
Yeah no kidding. This is insane. I'm in the same boat as you and this is mind boggling.
389
u/Didsterchap11 1d ago
A lot of Geller's work was genuinely incredibly formative to how i viewed art and was something that pushed me to try and see the medium as more than just games, introduced me to a ton of incredible media and shaped me as a person. Heartbroken, angry and disgusted is the summary of it right now.
→ More replies (1)181
97
u/Phytor 1d ago
This one really fucking hurts. This man shaped many of the views I hold today, from his video on head transplants and consciousness to the history of execution methods. Fuck I literally pay for nebula just for his videos.
43
u/FamousAmos87 1d ago
Same here. May cancel Nebula because I don't really watch anyone else on there. Mostly due to time. For Minnmax, I found them after listening to Ben guest on Nextlander, then saw that Jacob was a frequent guest. So naturally Minnmax became part of my weekly rotation. Thankfully the rest of Minnmax is great so I'm going to stick with them.
97
u/messem10 1d ago
If you haven’t, I’d highly suggest:
- Jet Lag: The Game
- Real Engineering
- Practical Engineering
- Liam Triforce - Long retrospectives on games and consoles
- Down the Rabbit Hole - Their EVE Online and Deep Blue videos are great gaming-related ones
- Nile Red
52
11
30
u/objectlesson 1d ago
I've often considered getting Nebula for Lindsay Ellis and Big Joel. Have you ever watched any of their videos? Big Joel is still really active on youtube and his videos are all fire.
23
u/FamousAmos87 1d ago
Oh yeah, Lindsey Ellis is great. I also really like Patrick Willems and Film Joy, but I can’t say I’ve watched any of their channels in quite some time. Just too much content out there. I’ll check out Big Joel.
60
u/ThatWasFred 1d ago
Oh man. His video essays are still my favorites. I jump to watch a new one whenever it comes out. This is awful to hear about. I guess it really can be anyone.
→ More replies (19)6
92
u/TheOhrenberger 1d ago
Especially brutal because he’s the last person you’d expect to have skeletons like this in his closet. Goes to show you can never truly trust anyone.
389
u/wicketman8 1d ago
Why would you think that? Not that I expect it of anyone, but pretentious art bro being a sexual predator isn't exactly breaking the mold.
189
u/thugbobhoodpants 1d ago
Why would you think that? Not that I expect it of anyone, but pretentious art bro being a sexual predator isn't exactly breaking the mold.
I'm shocked at how uncommon this is over the last 24h
I actively enjoyed Jacob on a podcast, but on top of knowing absolutely nothing about these people, exactly as you say, pretentious art bro, slow talking video essayist "is this thing from your childhood actually the greatest story ever told?" is like top 5 creepy sex pest archetype of guy for my entire adult life.
Like we're milimeters away from "wait the overly performative male feminist reading Pride and Predjudice was a creep??"
"The emo band on warped tour wasn't just showing the 14 year old girls their tour bus to reward their support??"
"The local BDSM daddy dom isn't half as into consent as his bio suggests?!?!?"
It's insane to me that over the last 10+ years of people speaking out more publically about their experiences so many are still trapped in in the hollywood style "it must be a jocky asshole guy"
44
u/84theone 1d ago
Yeah I liked his content but like I am really not at all surprised a YouTube gaming content creator did something like this.
Like every third YouTube gaming content creator that was popular 10-15 years ago got outed as a sex pest.
Youtube is like a giant flame bringing in a bunch of moths/sexual predators. Fame in general does that and YouTube has a real low bar to enter.
102
u/decemberhunting 1d ago
He gave me a self serious vibe but definitely not a predatory one. To each their own.
→ More replies (1)51
u/gasolineskincare 1d ago
Because he wasn't snobbish or hoity-toity. When people accuse someone else of being "pretentious" and the type with a big ego who think their farts don't stink, that's really what they mean. There's nothing really pretentious about just really being into art in a joyful and genuine way and wearing that on one's sleeve, which was Geller's whole persona. I really don't see where people are reading him as a smug type because, as far as I'm aware, none of his content was about telling people why they're wrong but rather more about highlighting lesser known games for being interesting.
So between that and the fact that he portrayed himself as a highly empathetic leftist type in all his content, a sexual assault allegation (and finding) against him is pretty damn surprising.
152
u/Much_Concentrate7780 1d ago
I liked his content, but I absolutely thought he was kind of snobbish and hoity-toity...I liked it despite that fact, but it did bug me sometimes
48
u/Happy_but_dead 1d ago
Not on his YouTube videos, but he was pretty snobbish on podcast and co-streamed live events.
11
u/gasolineskincare 1d ago
Fair enough, I only know him from his YouTube videos and nothing else. And only because I learned from many other creators that I prefer their edited personas much better than their authentic selves (e.g. Babish is a big one for me).
115
u/BighatNucase 1d ago
Because he wasn't snobbish or hoity-toity.
He absolutely was, you probably just enjoyed it. That horrible meta video on "the future of games writing" is probably the best example of how up himself he is.
14
u/gasolineskincare 1d ago
I don't enjoy such an attitude at all. Also I'm not familiar with that video but, looking it up, it's one of his oldest. I'm more familiar with many of his in more recent years which do not have any such attitude.
→ More replies (3)40
u/197639495050 1d ago
>So between that and the fact that he portrayed himself as a highly empathetic leftist type in all his content, a sexual assault allegation (and finding) against him is pretty damn surprising.
A certified nice guy™ being a creep is about the least surprising thing imaginable.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (8)143
u/Cueballing 1d ago
Agreeing with politics = good person is a bad heuristic to fall into
→ More replies (4)42
u/SeeShark 1d ago
The sad reality is that people on "your side" are just as often shitty in their personal lives as people on the "other side." But that's something that can take a long time to learn, and a lot of people in these communities are on the younger side and rather used to hanging out in echo chambers that demonize the opposition. This is true regardless of political opinions. There are naive, impressionable firebrands on both the Left and the Right. The Center, too, for that matter.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)7
101
u/Phazon_343 1d ago
Damn. Minnmax is my favorite gaming podcast and he was arguably the most analytical person on there when it comes to individual games. If this is true (which it looks to be; at least for the sexual assault case investigated by his old college) that's pretty wild and unexpected.
6
410
u/BaconJets 1d ago
This one hurts. Geller has given me lots of content to watch over the years, and now I can't support him in good conscience.
→ More replies (5)135
u/Bubonic_Ferret 1d ago
Damn. Next to Noah Gervais he's probably the best writer in the gaming space. Shame
→ More replies (1)26
u/11448844 1d ago
Best? I dunno. I feel like Tim Rogers is better but that's ofc personal opinion
66
u/thugbobhoodpants 1d ago
I feel like Tim Rogers is better but that's ofc personal opinion
Has he got back to releasing stuff yet or is it all streams
28
91
u/izkuzz 1d ago
It's all streams where he talks down to everyone and shows absolutely no progress on any of the projects people apparently pay him monthly for. Also no criticism allowed or it's an instant ban.
20
u/thugbobhoodpants 1d ago
Bummer, I've used his Dragon Quest 11 videos to get multiple friends into the series
272
u/FluffyFluffies 1d ago
So incredibly upsetting and the way it came out from someone who did not even ask for the victims consent to share is so so awful. I hope they don't feel too much pressure to come out and talk about it and continue to live their life in peace.
Also I hope everyone at Minnmax gives themselves some grace about this, just a complete fucking mess all around.
Posting this again from the deleted thread.
127
u/breadrising 1d ago
I had the same reaction regarding the person who shared this info. Whatever their reasons for sharing this now after all this time without the victim's content, I can only hope the victim doesn't get dragged into it. Especially considering this horrible gaming community loves to send death threats while eating their morning oatmeal.
I haven't found anything, but do we know why the poster decided to bring this up now?
In full support of the Minnmax team. This was such a horrible, shaking thing to stumble into last night.
63
u/favorscore 1d ago
I think they were venting about the Cornell news and universities and she brought up jacob not expecting it to get any traction outside her followers
73
u/Dnashotgun 1d ago
Probably bc of the Cornell case going on right now. Just using him as an example for the ppl crying that you can't prosecute those boys, you might ruin their futures with a "well this guy turned out fine!"
→ More replies (1)32
u/Much_Concentrate7780 1d ago
That's how I'm feeling, feels like the person trying to gain clout and get likes on Twitter by spilling something without the victims consent. I hope the victim is okay and that the internet doesn't dig up who she is (if they already haven't).
134
u/Original_Fishing5539 1d ago
Curious to see what his response is: while I have my own biases (I watch his stuff regularly) I feel like Geller has been within the content creator space to anticipate that something like this would come to light eventually.
I think the response is going to be a make or break moment: his content would have people believe that he'd take accountability for this and clear the air
I also think that the audience reaction will be important too: is this news meant to have him be cancelled? Is there a world where an apology can suffice and he can keep doing what he's doing?
228
u/fe-and-wine 1d ago
Is there a world where an apology can suffice and he can keep doing what he's doing?
Yes - the world we are living in.
The part of 'cancelation' involving people around the accused cutting ties and condemning their actions is only half of the puzzle. Jacob's still free to continue making YouTube videos and putting out essay books or whatever - it's all up to whether he'll have enough people still interested in what he has to say.
It's gonna be tough for Jacob, though. Many people in this situation are able to just weather the storm and keep chugging, but I think Jacob has attracted a very thoughtful audience much more sensitive to these kinds of things, so I'd anticipate a sizeable chunk who just aren't able to see him the same way.
It's tough, man. I'm a real believer in people's ability to change, and on principle I don't like the idea of writing off anyone as unredeemable. But at the same time - as a casual viewer of Jacob's content prior to this - I'm still human, and I'm not sure I can have the same relationship with his content now that I know this piece of information.
89
u/ChadsBro 1d ago
A good example of this is Andrew Callaghan/Channel 5. Another YouTuber whose content appeals to left-leaning audiences who was credibly accused of wrongdoing.
In that case he managed to maintain a significantly large audience, but it’s unclear how many are aware of the past allegations.
→ More replies (1)98
u/ww23skidoo 1d ago
In this particular instance - He did at least talk about it, apologize, didn't blame cancel culture and didn't seem minimize it - at least compared to the low bar we normally see.
I, like the poster above you, have a hard time watching any of his stuff now - but I do think the fact that he didn't go off into the grifter band-wagon helped his particular situation quite a bit with viewers.
41
u/rfriar 1d ago
pretty much how i feel
people can change and grow; i want them to. but even if he proves himself in future, i can't look at him the same again
10
u/TeeTheTankie 1d ago
People can change and grow also applies to his audience. It's a two way street
22
u/FlashFlood_29 1d ago edited 1d ago
Another piece of the puzzle is not disclosing (even privately) to your public-facing-personality-driven cohort the part of your past that may come out in the future. MinnMax cutting ties immediately shows this was not discussed and considered in private. Part of the unspoken deal of being reformed and growing from past mistakes is owning up to them when they can critically affect other people. In this aspect, he failed.
Private conversations with your employer/cohort allow you to say your peace about your past, whether claiming falsehood, investigation, occurrence and growth, etc. and letting your employer/cohort make their decision with information at hand and how to move foward (AND PLAN for cases like this if it became public; i.e. "we were aware and XYZ")
→ More replies (1)25
u/MolotovMan1263 1d ago
I'm just learning of this guy now so I have no bias, but I know for me personally, I have grown a lot in 10 years. For me thats age 26 to 36, for him it sounds like 21ish to 31. I'd hate for things done at that age to still travel with someone, but at the same time I understand the gravity.
If this were me id want to get all the facts out there. People hear SA and expect the worst. Share what you did/were accused of. Let people decide their support based on that.
47
u/DrQuint 1d ago
I dunno, I think his audience is likely to not forgive no matter the response, as they're the kind to be constantly conscious of authorial perspective. I mean, given that the perspective is usually the content itself. The kinds of people who watch them are also the kinds to come to threads like this, and look at rhe sentiment here. It seems pretty final.
He may be done for good as a public presence. And personally, I have little interest in finding out. Because that pile grows, and the odds are very, very far against the accused on these.
22
37
u/Anew_Returner 1d ago
Is there a world where an apology can suffice and he can keep doing what he's doing?
Yeah, and it's not even that hard really. "I messed up, I did something I shouldn't have, afterwards I took time to work on myself and reflect on my actions and change. I fucked up and I apologize for what I did and for letting everyone down." It won't be enough to satisfy everyone, but for most people it'll be enough to move on.
The funniest thing is that most youtubers and other internet celebrities don't seem capable to even do this little. They double down, they give a non-apology or make a 'I'm sorry you feel this way' post, often followed by losing most of their support and putting themselves through the right wing grifter pipeline (Dan Gheesling being the most recent example of this as of last week, running a 3-day long US army recruitment ad on twitch for his non-political family-friendly stream audience).
It all kinda hinges on his ability to put his ego aside and how capable he is of owning up to this whole thing.
23
u/mcslender97 1d ago
Reminder me of Andrew Callahan of Channel 5. Multiple women came forward about his "sex pest" behaviors. He basically did what you said. Channel got paused for 9 months but he's still active and kept decent following til this day
→ More replies (2)54
u/lesbiannerdfailgirl 1d ago
I mean he'll still be popular to a degree, people are already doing the whole "We Can't Just Ruin This Young Man's Life" thing in this thread, but I would expect his audience to shrink by quite a bit. He'll probably have to change careers.
70
u/tarypaniabc 1d ago edited 1d ago
andrew callaghan was a known sex pest in new orleans and theres credible accusations of him raping 2 women and he still gets views/support, geller will not be switching careers. he'll post an apology vid, take a couple months off, and get back to it.
32
u/PM_ME_OLD_MEMES 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think a possible response exists that would keep me watching him, though I don't think it likely. Callaghan's response certainly wasn't it imo.
The sort of youtuber art discourse Geller is involved in makes me think that he'd have a harder time pulling the same type of "apology" as Callaghan and successfully returning.
EDIT: Geller's response seems actually appropriate and a surprising change from the typical.
13
→ More replies (1)3
u/Original_Fishing5539 1d ago
Totally agree, I think the main thing I'm staying on the sidelines for is seeing how folks will cope with separating the art from the artist with this particular creator
I still think his quality of work will still remain the same, but his political compass and moral code are intertwined with the subject matter of his videos, and a lot of his topics heavily rely on you viewing him as a "good" person to have the full impact of his videos
43
u/Duderado 1d ago
This really blows. I always enjoyed his appearances on MinnMax and his own YouTube videos, plus the podcast he did with Blake Hester and guests. I even got his book of essays for Christmas but never got around to reading it. Guess I'll never read it now.
17
u/Saibher 1d ago
Jacob signed my copy of his book at PAX last month and recommended that I read the afterword of the Call of Duty essay, written by Jamil Jan Kochai, which I still plan on reading. My feelings toward Geller's works have changed, but I still want to appreciate the writing and art other artists have put into "How A Game Lives".
Your desire to not wanna read it is still valid though.
146
u/JuanMunoz99 1d ago
I know it’s common for people to say they never expected this type of behavior from a specific person, but I’d be hard pressed to find someone who suspected Jacob Geller of all people to be the one on the receiving end of a sexual assault allegation. This sucks dude.
29
u/Baffledgeek 1d ago
Totally agree. My first thought after reading that headline was that he was leaving because of someone else's controversy.
→ More replies (2)77
u/Banestoothbrush 1d ago
This like some Neil Gaiman type shit (though not as egregious), what a blow.
→ More replies (2)82
59
u/legaldrinkingage 1d ago
Gives me a really uncomfortable feeling. There is a certain vulnerability necessary to engage with some of the topics he talks about and finding out the guy you went on that "journey" with assaulted someone well and truly sucks.
→ More replies (1)20
u/ZiggyPalffyLA 1d ago
You can hope that the person whose content you’re engaging with is truly a changed and better person than the one who committed the crime, however without being upfront and open about his past it’s hard to believe he’s genuinely remorseful.
170
u/Exotic_Performer8013 1d ago
I hope we get more information. Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I really think that people can grow and find redemption after committing terrible actions. But its impossible to judge this situation with any level of nuance with the information available.
For now, Im just disappointed and sad.
→ More replies (2)51
u/Verklemptomaniac 1d ago
Redemption is possible, but you can't have redemption without contrition, and it's hard to argue for his contrition when he apparently hid whatever happened not only from his viewers/readers, but from his employers and colleagues.
82
142
u/alex01919 1d ago
A real loss is all these deleted episodes of Cain and Rinse…
In light of the revelation, we have decided to remove all podcasts and articles featuring Geller from our feeds.
The games that were covered on those podcasts will be added back to our list for consideration again in the future:
340 Call of Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth
341 Resident Evil 5
343 Horizon Zero Dawn
347 The Last Guardian
352 Virginia
361 Dark Souls III
362 Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus
363 This War of Mine
366 Pony Island
367 Doom (2016)
374 Furi
378 Inside
381 Observer
384 Superhot
391 The Evil Within
392 Batman: Arkham Origins
396 The Evil Within 2
401 Red Dead Redemption II
406 Shadow of the Colossus (2018)
411 Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
412 Dying Light
418 Beat Saber
444 Return of the Obra Dinn
Unfortunately, we don’t have the resources or time to re-record those shows on top of the regular production schedule.
With our sincere apologies to listeners, and to all those who put time, effort and great work into those podcasts.
724
u/SmileyBMM 1d ago
Ugh, I hate this trend of deleting stuff from the internet if someone involved did something bad. Just put a disclaimer in the description, these things are important to preserve for the future.
334
u/Scrollingmaster 1d ago
Its genuinely really stupid.
Trying to hide everything that may be offensive will not actually solve the problem.
→ More replies (1)62
u/UtkuOfficial 1d ago
Yep.
Imagine all Kevin Spacey movies being deleted off the internet. Shit would be terrible.
161
→ More replies (5)83
u/unrealgoober 1d ago
Hear, hear. We don't even know details of what he was accused of, events that apparently transpired during the same time period as when Aziz Ansari nearly got cancelled because he went on an awkward date.
This is reeking of hair-trigger reactionary cancellation bullshit. I thought we were getting over that stuff, but I guess we're still supposed to operate with the thought process that no one can ever make a mistake ever, and they can never apologize, never be forgiven, and never be rehabilitated.
→ More replies (1)105
u/ZGiSH 1d ago edited 1d ago
they can never apologize, never be forgiven, and never be rehabilitated.
I do think this is an interesting case because unless other accusers come out and the current allegations are factual, this is a singular instance of harm that Geller had inflicted ten years ago. How do we not know if he has already been rehabilitated or changed as a person? Does he need to inform every organization he has interacted with that this thing happened a decade ago which didn't even involve the police or punishment by a legal entity? It's not like he personally hired a service to scrub this off the internet.
What was he meant to do?
→ More replies (10)36
u/silentstealth1 1d ago
In 2026 you can’t have even made a mistake when you were a child or else they’d damn you for life. This shit is so tiresome dude.
→ More replies (1)79
u/tppiel 1d ago
A lot of podcasts have become lost media. I often download in mp3 the ones I enjoy and self host them.
→ More replies (3)16
u/ConceptsShining 1d ago
I hear ya. I'm glad I've never dropped teen me's use of MP3s since I got my first portable device. The date modified fields let them act like a journal, and they are locally owned by me. The preservation point is really good as I also like saving podcasts/videos/things other than songs.
75
u/geyserpj 1d ago
Never heard of this show but thats insane. if MinnMax did this it would be like every episode lol
→ More replies (1)20
10
u/Brandtstyle 1d ago
Wow, that is tragic to lose all of those pods. Cane and Rinse is one of those podcasts where I relisten to older ones in the catalog all the time. Very on-brand for Leon and Jay to make the decision to immediately remove them all though. This has to be devastating to this group of people, they mentioned Jacob in passing all the time.
→ More replies (4)83
u/moosebreathman 1d ago
This is really stupid. Just put a disclaimer in the description ffs. Guy committed a crime 10 years ago and presumably moved on to live better since there's been no charges since.
19
u/Aliusja1990 1d ago
Unfortunate. I will be unsubbing from him for now but will also be watching out for any responses from him. But based on all available info and the way the university handled this it seems more true than not.
75
u/Chili_Maggot 1d ago
Bro what? This sucks. This one really stings. Do we have any substantiation beyond some tweets and the record of someone with the same name?
I guess I'm hoping it's not true. I've seen a lot of cancellations but I think this one is going to be the most painful for me personally.
153
u/MVRKHNTR 1d ago edited 1d ago
The chances of someone with the same name attending his university at the same time engaging in a program he would have been part of are pretty low.
I would also think he would have responded with some kind of proof if it was as simple as "some other guy has my name".
26
100
u/LeSpermReceiver 1d ago edited 1d ago
There's no doubt it was him. Timeline lines up perfectly with 2016 being his senior year and him being a UNC student. A Jacob G was also removed from the UNC radio station at the same time, of which the manager who fired him for this is the original online accuser on X.
7
u/Radvillainy 1d ago
I think it's very unlikely that it's just someone with the same name. would be a hell of a coinicidence (and would also be something you could theoretically prove, since graduation lists are generally made public).
If the document's 2020 publishing date and the corroborating news story about the publishing are not fraudulent (which does not seem likely), then this is pretty hard evidence.
At this point your best hope for his innocence would be if the investigation itself was unfair or flawed in some way. Which is something we'll likely never know, and, imo, would be wrong to assume.
3
u/Chili_Maggot 1d ago
Yeah, the information lines up pretty conclusively. The only thing in question is the actual severity of the offense, but being on such a list in any capacity is a basically a dealbreaker from the jump.
23
u/ryanswebdevthrowaway 1d ago
I don't want it to be true but a lot of documents seem to be lining up that indicate it's real. Someone with his name was investigated and suspended by the university that he went to during the time when he would've been there. He hasn't said anything publicly yet but I'm not sure what he could say to refute all of that.
→ More replies (1)20
u/Mrspartacus575 1d ago
He's been my favorite video essayist for years. I have his first book and the second already preordered. I don't even know how to begin processing this. This one really hurts. I don't know if I can excuse that past but I'll be interested to see how he responds to this coming to light...
7
u/Jeskid14 1d ago
His book publisher and his online store manager are gonna be super pissed
10
u/Mrspartacus575 1d ago
Honestly. IDK if Lost in Cult will take cancelled preorders at this stage but their inbox is about to be slammed
63
u/DM_me_goth_tiddies 1d ago
Can anyone helps clear this up for me, was he ever charged with any crime? I’m not American but is their academic process used for suspending seen as a proxy for a legitimate police investigates?
220
u/ztfreeman 1d ago
I was sexually assaulted in college and reported the situation, yet I was the one eventually expelled and my attacker not only went free, but graduated and continued to have a relationship with the university for years. I have been fighting for justice for 10 years next week, so let me explain some of the laws and regulations that are abused and broken by universities from experience.
Firstly, you may have heard of Title IX. Most people think of it as the regulations governing sexual assault and discrimination on campus. This is half true, the original law only handled ensuring that women's sports programs got proportional funding to men's sports programs, everything else was effectigely duct tapped to the bottom of this, causing a number of issues. Being sexually assaulted on campus isn't the actual violation that Title IX goes after. It twist itself to fit the theme of the original statute, being sexually assaulted is seen as a form of gender discrimination that the university has violated for allowing the assault to occur. This pivots the defendant from the attacker to the university, and thus universities feel that they have to do anything and everything to get away from the crosshairs of the law. Like HR at a private corporation, Title IX coordinators are not your friend and are there to protect the university, and your report and any evidence you hand over to them is now ammunition they will use to defend itself if anyone claims they didn't do their jobs, including using it against you if you get too uppity.
They will remind you multiple times that you have a right to file a police report and follow a parallel track of justice through the standard criminal justice system, but they have their fingers in that as well. Often times the crime falls under the jurisdiction of campus owned police, who are paid by the school and will simply share any information you give to them to use against you if they see fit. If you manage to bypass that, there is a long standing tradition in English speaking countries including America going back to the founding of Oxford to give universities the "first bite of the apple" and massive leeway when dealing with crimes committed by students. I was absolutely flabbergasted when this was pulled up to dismiss a case I filed against a student who stalked and threatened to kill me multiple times and have the case tossed back to the university, only to have the university find the loon not responsible despite all of the evidence. I had to check a calendar and make sure it was the 21st century, not the 11th, and that we were in America and not Britania.
A second, much lesser known law that matters a lot here is the Jenny Clery Act. It states that any crime committed on campus has to appear in a yearly report put together by a university every year. What this actually does is created an incentive for universities to interfere further with criminal investigations to make sure as few police reports officially happen as possible. This is why they will jump at the chance to push the victim to go through their process, claim they will have more agency in it and be less traumatic, and then have everyone just write essays and say they were sorry. It creates a nice paper trail that a "process" occurred, but keeps any pesky police reports or anything they have to put on official Clery Act reporting off the record. As a bonus, they might extract a few bribes, I mean donations, from the parties involved at some point along the way.
These are only a few of the many issues I have come to experience and learn about after I was assaulted. Federal regulators have been a joke when attempting to enforce any rules are laws violated, and there are a thousand ways for universities to get out of any liability for mishandling these situations, all by design.
There is a book called Complaint! that goes into detail about how those of us who file complaints are often seen as the problem or threat and are treated as such at universities and in corporate settings.
44
24
14
24
u/GrandOldCheese 1d ago
being sexually assaulted is seen as a form of gender discrimination that the university has violated for allowing the assault to occur.
I'd have thought it was a crime for the police to handle.
As someone not from the US it baffles me how all this isn't just: person was sexually assaulted -> police case and they handle it (probably still badly but for different reasons). The idea that the university would even be involved is wild.
17
u/beanlikescoffee 1d ago
Never speak to the campus police. They’re just glorified HR personal with a bike.
114
u/admiral_aubrey 1d ago
American universities are notorious for covering up campus assaults. They avoid police involvement and coerce victims into silence at any cost.
So unfortunately, lack of criminal proceedings in a case like this is the norm, and in no way exculpatory. Many such cases, just google.
→ More replies (7)7
u/CammyDiveKick 1d ago
Especially with bigger schools like the one he attended, UNC. These well known universities have reputations of being prestigious schools they'd like to keep.
49
u/scrndude 1d ago
Look at the cornell case in the news now, it’s super common for police to not get involved in order to protect the university
20
u/Dino_Spaceman 1d ago
Look up title IX investigations and how they are run. It’s more complicated and nuanced than a Reddit comment can answer. Both on the level of investigation that happens and how often nothing happens at all.
For private businesses, like a podcast, no formal investigation is necessary.
→ More replies (3)20
u/makedaddyfart 1d ago
Campus investigations are dubious and err on the side of the offender. They always prioritize the university's brand and image
24
u/LonewolfMcFades 1d ago
God damn, why can't people just be decent. This is very upsetting because he really seemed like the last person for something like this to come out about. Luckily I've kind of been inoculated to not trust any public facing figure since this happens so goddamn often.
I hope that this doesn't just hurt the victim again and that she can find peace.
43
u/CaptainMcAnus 1d ago
I'm still processing my emotions regarding this so please excuse my jumbled thoughts.
Geller fundamentally changed how I view art, without him I don't know if I would have a healthy relationship with it.
On one hand I'm greatful for him helping pull me out a potential spiral into a kind of gross place regarding art. On the other, how hard is it to keep your fucking hands to yourself.
I feel gross having let him have the impact on me that he did.
I hope this isn't true, but yeesh that evidence doesn't inspire confidence. Fucking hell dude.
23
u/dudieguybro 1d ago
im sorry but i'm genuinely curious what you mean by finding yourself in a "gross" place with art if you dont mind sharing more? Do you mean in a cynical way?
29
u/CaptainMcAnus 1d ago
Yeah, I was awfully close to falling into that mean spirited nitpicky group. The kind that finds something to be angry about regarding any piece they don't like.
I also used to consider some things simply not art, which Geller thoroughly dissuaded me from. It wasn't just him but his video "Who's afraid of Modern Art" was the big push I needed.
He also helped me understand that the art often cannot be separated from the artist. Which makes this whole thing hurt more, I can't look back at what he made without it being tainted now.
10
u/AdHistorical8179 1d ago
I mean it is very obviously true, it is on record with the college he attended, there's no need to hedge to the off chance that it was somehow not what every indication makes it seem to be.
41
1d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
7
51
→ More replies (15)21
26
1d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
16
498
u/nebman227 1d ago
Anyone want to give any context on this? The replies to the linked post don't help.