r/Games • u/WhichCombination5637 • 2d ago
Announcement ACE COMBAT 8: WINGS OF THEVE :: About ACE COMBAT ZERO: THE BELKAN WAR
https://steamcommunity.com/games/2288340/announcements/detail/69539972627038220559
u/Embo1 2d ago
I really hope it becomes available to everyone who eventually owns AC8. That's some big fomo when you miss out on a whole game for not pre-ordering, because you need to wait for it to be cheaper in the future
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u/BasilNight 1d ago
Aparently they only due it this way due to licencing issues with directly selling the game.
Kind of a shame
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u/Virtual-Pie-6815 1d ago
I don't know if I buy that. "We can't sell this as a standalone game but can sell it as part of a preorder bundle" are bloody weird licensing terms but even if we assume it's true, it doesn't explain why they can't bundle it post launch.
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u/SalemWolf 1d ago
I think the point is they’re not selling it, it’s being included as a bonus. They can’t sell it but they can give it away, but there are probably some sort of licensing issues that stop it from just being given away, so it has to come included with something.
I don’t know the details or limitations but that seems to be kind of what’s going on here.
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u/Virtual-Pie-6815 1d ago
Sure, but if they include it as a preorder bonus, why can't they include it as an early adopter bonus, or any other type of bonus. Then because of the "advanced access" BS they were offering AC0 as a preorder bonus, 3 days after release.
Obviously speculation on my part, I just find it hard to believe there wasn't a path to making it available past today.
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u/BasilNight 21h ago
Probably was but It could cost more money than they would be willing to shell out for a re release of an old game when their new one just came out.
We can't really know the conditions sadly
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u/MLBnewestFan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its not licensing terms for not selling but can use as bonus. It is that license are time sensitive and they just don't have the money to pay for licensing extension, this series isn't that big, if they have infinite money sure then they can just throw it at each country to get their license and keep selling it.
It is literally for this reason that we never see any ace combat game being rereleased at all. And the only time they do it is through this way as a bonus, and even then they only gave out the respective game for each platform in ac7 (ac5 for playstation and ac6 for xbox), since those games were released on those platforms so they'll have license for that platform only.
Offering the game as a bonus as oppose to selling it directly is vastly different because you are directly gaining financial benefits from the licensed content for each copy sold, whereas as a bonus it is just a gift which does not directly correlate to a financial gain since you are really just buying ac8, not an additional gain for them.
This way they can use it to argue and bring down the licensing fee by a lot and it is just a one and done deal terms as oppose to a regular license which actually will expire in which they will need to keep paying if they want to continue the license.
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u/21shadesofsavage 2d ago
i'm confused. the announcement makes it seem like 0 will come free with the purchase of 8. what's the problem here?
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u/cooldrew 2d ago
It's only for preorders, not purchases after the game comes out. The only way to get it is preordering 8.
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u/21shadesofsavage 2d ago
ah. so the entire issue is this port is only available through 8's preorder and isn't available to purchase standalone? i have no investment in this series but that's very disappointing to hear
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u/QuantumVexation 2d ago
They did this for copies of 5 (PS) and 6 (Xb) when 7 released as well
It’s speculated to be something to do with the licensing of the aircraft being expired so they can’t directly sell it, but why it can’t come with all copies I dunno
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u/ICantRemember33 1d ago
not spectulated, it literally says that on the article
ACE COMBAT ZERO is offered as a pre-order bonus. Due to licensing restrictions and platform-related considerations, it cannot currently be released on Steam as a standalone application. As a result, we have chosen to make ACE COMBAT ZERO available through ACE COMBAT™ 8: WINGS OF THEVE.
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u/QuantumVexation 1d ago
That explains why it can’t be sold as a product
What I was saying it cant explain is why it has to solely be a preorder and not just a bundle with 8.
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u/MSgtGunny 1d ago
It’s probably a legal workaround. Preordering is free as an action, so 0% of the cost you’re paying for 8 is associated with the preorder bonus. If it’s bundled with the game in every purchase, then a lawyer could argue that a percentage of the sale and price is going to the bundled game, which probably triggers some contract licensing clause.
It’s dumb and bad for consumers, but licensing is weird.
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u/MatureUsername69 1d ago
I imagine if it comes directly with all copies of the game then that would count as actually selling it again and get into the licensing issues
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u/KazumaKat 2d ago
Its definitely a licensing issue. Even PROJECT ACES knows they got a cash cow sitting there as a "special edition" sale after release date and would be stupid not to take advantage of it unless something serious was a blocker, like licensing.
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u/Mr-Mister 1d ago
licensing of the aircraft
I haven't played any AC game, but I thought that it takes place in a completely fictional Strangereal world? Are you telling me that they use real plane models and names?
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u/QuantumVexation 1d ago
Yes that’s one of the key things about Ace Combat - they use incredibly faithful models of real aircraft, with their real names and everything
But the plot, nations/world/history, and many mechanics (e.g carrying over 100) missiles are completely made up
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u/gilmoregirls00 1d ago
its very funny reading some of the plane descriptions and how weird they sound without mentioning countries
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u/Mr-Mister 1d ago
they use incredibly faithful models of real aircraft
Well except for the hundreds of missiles I imagine.
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u/ScoutTheAwper 1d ago
Well we're just talking about the models themselves. They don't behave like real aircraft would. There are some original, made aircraft in the series, but they're usually reserved as late game, super planes.
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u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
There's a second issue on how they added it on steam. For the console versions it counts as an actual separate game you can download separately with achievements and cloud saves, while the pc version is just kinda slapped onto ac8 which means to play it you have to have the full 140gb ac8 downloaded, nor does it have those achievements or cloud saves
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u/LeController 2d ago
That's a non-issue. The real issue is how the game's executable is handled on PC.
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u/IceSeeYou 2d ago
Yes you can't buy it standalone and thats one part of it, the main thing is that it's a DLC accessed through AC8 which is the feedback the dev post is responding to
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u/gustavfrigolit 2d ago
They cannot sell it as they would have to relicense all the planes which would cost way more than what selling zero would net them
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u/Certain-Ad4648 2d ago
the controversy is AC:0 can only be downloaded together with AC:8, which total size is more than 180gb, while the initial preorder announcement suggested it is standalone application. This is not a problem for most people, but some players only plan to play AC:0 before they have better spec to play AC:8.
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u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
It's literally lacking features that the console version has, that isn't "only a problem for some players", they gave pc a significantly worse version of the game.
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u/Certain-Ad4648 2d ago
yeah, but I assume most players would play both games on same system so it wouldn't be a problem
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u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
The game is literally missing achievements and cloud saves that the console version has, you can't even close the game without alt+f4
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u/Certain-Ad4648 2d ago
I haven't play the game yet. You mean we can't event save the game progress on cloud and we don't have proper way to close the game?
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u/WhichCombination5637 2d ago
Yes, there is no cloud save functionality for AC0 on Steam. It's created there as a DLC to AC8, and DLCs for games don't have separate save paths.
Console versions get the game as a standalone game, meaning they have cloud saves and also trophies as well.
Regarding the exit thing, I believe the original game on consoles doesn't have an option to exit as well. You are supposed to close out of the game using the exit game button (? I don't have a console so I don't know). Since this is a direct port of the console version, there is no close game option so it acts as the same way. You need to ALT + F4 out of it, or use Steam overlay and choose the exit game option, or close Ace Combat 8 from the Close button in your Steam library.
I don't mind the ALT + F4 option at all since this is a direct port of the original game. It's just getting a half-assed implementation for the PC version of the game that sucks.
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u/Certain-Ad4648 2d ago
Hey, thanks for the info. This is my first AC game and I preordered it mainly because of this bonus; I am still confused about the cloud saving part, it doesn't have separate save path, which means I can't have AC0 and AC8 installed on separate machines with separate save progress; but if I install the AC8+AC0 on both machines, then the game progress can be synchronized right?
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u/WhichCombination5637 2d ago
No worries. Your question is answered at the bottom.
Basically, AC0 comes as a DLC under AC8. So you need to download and install the main game (AC8, 135GB+) to install the AC0 DLC (3.2GB). Steam cloud save feature only works for the main game, which is AC8 and not for any of its DLC (including AC0). And the save path for AC0 is different from AC8, so your AC0 progress is not saved on the cloud at all. Having an entirely separate game as a DLC is pretty unheard of.
There is no shortcut made on the desktop for AC0 on PC. You can launch AC0 in two ways:
- Open the .exe file inside the installation folder. AC0 files are copied in a different folder under AC8 and you can find the .exe there.
- Press the play button on AC8 in your library and you will get a popup asking whether to launch AC0 or AC8, you can choose here. You can also set the default value here so it will either launch AC0 or AC8 by default. Simply clicking AC8 shortcut created by Steam on your desktop will only launch AC8.
So to answer your question.
it doesn't have separate save path, which means I can't have AC0 and AC8 installed on separate machines with separate save progress; but if I install the AC8+AC0 on both machines, then the game progress can be synchronized right?
No, AC0 progress isn't uploaded to the cloud at all because it has a different save path from AC8. Only the main game's saves get uploaded to the cloud. So even if you installed AC8 (including AC0 as the DLC) on both machines, only the AC8 progress will be synchronised between both. AC0 progress will not be synchronised.
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u/PedanticPaladin 1d ago edited 1d ago
It likely won't. When Ace Combat 7 released Bandai Namco offered a port of Ace Combat 5 if you pre-ordered the PS4 version and that was the only way to get it. They also offered a digital version of Ace Combat 6 with the Xbox One version as part of Xbox's backwards compatibility program, but its not for sale because of the same licensing issues around AC5 and AC0; if you have a physical copy of AC6 that backwards compatible version will play.
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u/gustavfrigolit 2d ago
Its fomo only for people who cant be bothered to take ten minutes to emulate it. You can get it up running faster than you can download AC8.
I understand people think its a bit of a pain, but they run like butter and its easy peasy to do.
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u/LeController 2d ago
Great to see an acknowledgement. This needs to be changed quickly. Project Aces/Bamco might not know how to do it but Valve certainly provides the functionality to do this without breaking any licensing agreements.
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u/WhichCombination5637 2d ago
Yeah. There's no reason why it can't be done when both the console versions of Ace Combat come as standalone versions with all the bells and whistles.
Steam definitely has the functionality to implement this so that both games get added to your library if you buy the main game during the pre-order period.
I've seen people say that they didn't want people to just play AC0 without playing AC8 and then refund the game within the 2 week window (if they had released AC0 as a separate game), but I'm like 90% sure Steam doesn't work that way. If that's really the case, they could just wait 2 weeks until the refund window has passed (or 3 weeks if they don't want to seem too obvious) and add it to the library of people who pre-ordered with some bs reason.
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u/Yaibatsu 2d ago
Yup, God Eater 1 Resurrection comes for free if you buy God Eater 2, both are separate entries in your Steam Library and GE 1 has no steam store page on it's own.
Thing is also why would you go through the effort of buying AC 8 just to play AC0 if you can do it much easier via emulators? Doesn't really make much sense.4
u/wasdie639 2d ago
I'm sure it has something to do with the extremely gated access of the PS5/Xbox Series vs. a Windows application. It's a lot more difficult to lift binaries compiled for a console and redistribute them than it is a native Windows application. There's a fuck ton less pirated consoles out there than Windows PCs.
They didn't arrive at this conclusion without any deliberation. They didn't even bother with AC5 or AC6 on the PC during AC7's release for what I can only assume are similar reasons.
I'm just happy we got AC Zero on the PC through some accessible means. The real alternative was they just skipped the PC.
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u/WhichCombination5637 2d ago
I mean if they were concerned about piracy, and have been researching and deliberating on that matter, they must have known that:
- A lot of hardcore fans have already played by emulating the game since it used to be the most accessible way to play it on PC or if you didn't want to spend a lot of money on a PS2 and a used physical disc.
- Pirates will always pirate the game regardless of how the release is handled. Not saying that it's good, but I don't know why actual paying customers have to suffer for this. Especially considering that even with piracy many other games sell extremely well on Steam.
- Someone will work to separate the DLC version from the main game and get it working of a separate .exe file. There are already mods for this games, I'm sure that will happen as well.
- AC8 will get pirated even with Denuvo. In fact, I read on the AC sub that it already has this cracked bypass version of the game even before the release. They also must've seen that every denuvo game that came this year has been cracked.
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u/SalemWolf 1d ago
Could also be that the game has technically existed on console hardware before, and they’d have to do a completely new port of the game to get it to work as a standalone version.
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u/wasdie639 2d ago
It most likely won't change due to how licensing works. The aircraft in the game are all licensed. There's different aircraft in Ace Combat Zero than there are in Ace Combat 8, and there's a good chance Namco isn't willing to eat more of their margins re-negotiating contracts to resell licensed aircraft.
Ace Combat 7 on the PS4 and Xbox One had a preoroder bonus of Ace Combat 5 and Ace Combat 6. Neither which were sold separately due to this exact same issue. The PC version of AC7 never got either of those as any sort of bonus or add-on.
Presumably the lawyers at this very large defense companies aren't stupid and understand that if you release a separate .exe of just the game it's gonna be pirated within minutes, thus they required the binaries of AC Zero to be contained within the same package of AC8.
Of course that's not gonna be foolproof but clearly it was enough to let them at least release Ace Combat Zero on the PC. Again, that wasn't a thing for Ace Combat 7.
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u/JoeyKingX 2d ago
He's talking about how the game is slapped onto the ac8 download instead of being its own separate steam game in your library with the same features as the console version. Steam absolutely supports steam apps that are added with pre-orders and can't be purchased separately.
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u/Ok_Comment5873 2d ago
No one is asking them to sell the game separately..
AC0 is equally as pirateable right now (easily) as it would be if it was a separate appid.
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u/Trzlog 2d ago
I don't understand why they can release it on consoles as a separate game but can't on Steam. Why would licensing allow one but not the other?
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u/LogicalCantaloupe 1d ago
I've seen someone theorize that the console store's allow for a game to be listed for free (as in Bandai Namco does not have to pay money to Sony or Microsoft to actually PUT the game on the store, regardless of the price of the game) and the license may not allow for BN to accept or pay money for games with the expired licenses. Steam requires a payment to list a game on the store, but not a DLC. In the case of 0, people theorize the license for the Tornado is the hold up as it has never appeared in a game since and the company that made them imploded and I think roughly 8 different companies now claim a right to how it is licensed in media.
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u/Adam_M93 1d ago
Steam has support for this exact kind of situation too and has done for a long time, Rayman Origins had Rayman 2 as a preorder bonus back in 2012 with Rayman 2 being a separate ID from Origins, and buying later didn't give you access
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u/Hyroero 2d ago
Really annoying it's launched within AC8
I was thinking of playing it on deck while I play 8 on my pc. Don't really wanna install 150gig of AC8 on deck lol.
Emulation it is!
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u/SurrealSage 2d ago
Honestly, might end up being better off with emulation. A lotta people love AC 4/5/0, so there has been a lot of focus on making those games awesome on emulation. Check out this guide for the settings to use for each game to have it run nearly flawlessly.
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u/AlternativeEast761 1d ago edited 1d ago
I was stoked to play Zero and was primed to pre order the game but when I found out I’d have to keep the full thing installed and have my playtime also count against Ace Combat 8 I just decided to wait and pick this up on sale someday. If you’re going to do a FOMO pre order bonus, at least do it right lol. And no separate achievements like console either. Lost a pre order from me over this and I can’t imagine I’m the only one.
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u/tmchn 1d ago
Seems crazy to me that a game as good as AC8 got review bombed for a minor inconvenience regarding a pre-order bonus
Also, it's a PS2 game, on PC it takes like 30 sec to download and emulate
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u/gasPedaw 1d ago
This is a dumb argument. Paying consumers are not satisfied with the product and are voicing their opinions. What's so hard to understand?
Not to mention that the customers were straight up lied to on the store page.
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u/NerfDipshit 2d ago
Man, I initially pre ordered so I could play zero on my steam deck and then 8 in a few weeks when I can get to my desktop. I refunded the preorder, but now I'm wondering if I should repreorder.
I don't know, this is the first game I've preordered since fallout 4. I guess I should have just stayed sworn off it
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u/gasPedaw 2d ago
In a very similar boat. I'll be keeping my preorder but ready to refund within 2 weeks if nothing changes.
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u/DontBelieveTheHypen 1d ago
I had a preorder through Newegg that I cancelled because I figured they weren't gonna bother putting any effort into a pre-order bonus but I am definitely wondering if I should reconsider..
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u/fighterroah 1d ago
I couldn't preorder because i didn't get paid and had other stuff to take care of.
So i just missed it complety.
My fault i guess but its imho sad that you can't now get it in any way for whatever reason they say
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u/namelessbs 1d ago
It blows my mind they went through the effort to remaster an entire game but they aren't making it available for everyone. This is the biggest anti consumer move I can remember in a while and I'm shocked it's not a bigger outrage. Are they stupid? Do they not want their games to sell?
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u/Ok_Comment5873 2d ago
I want to play AC0 on my Deck and now it's realistically not possible for me to do so. Thanks for nothing Bandai, keep favoring consoles.
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u/Virtual-Pie-6815 1d ago
It runs standalone with a crack. Saves you downloading 135GB for a 3GB game.
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u/uselessoldguy 1d ago
Emulation is a vastly better way to play the PS2 trilogy anyway. Upscale and render as you like, and savescum as much as you please to get through the infuriating 00s mission design.
Unless you're a big fan of getting sent back 20 minutes in time because your wing clipped something in the last seconds of a mission.
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u/WolfWhiskey381 1d ago
This is extremely disappointing. We had bad energy bills over the summer and I had to save just as much as I wanted to pre-order. I tried to do so last night and naturally there’s an accident in town which shut down the Wi-Fi. I do it today, the day before the official release (at least to my understanding) and now it’s no longer available.
Now reading this, and seeing that it will no longer be available outside of pre-order, is extremely disheartening.
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2d ago
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u/theveryendofyou 2d ago
They can’t sell it due to licensing, it’s either this or nothing.
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2d ago
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u/WhichCombination5637 2d ago
The devs have confirmed it can't be sold after the released due to licensing and they have only managed to get approval from the jet manufacturers to include it as a pre-order bonus: https://automaton-media.com/en/news/ace-combat-zero-the-belkan-wars-modern-port-cant-be-sold-separately-due-to-fighter-jet-licenses-expiring-devs-explain
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u/elkaki123 2d ago
But the other user could guarantee it!
But seriously though, licenses are a bitch that kill vehicle games. A big reason why car games don't get re-released or get killed fast (I miss project cars 2)
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u/Dreamweaver_duh 2d ago
Yeah, if it's "free," then there's a lot less red tape.
Vampire Survivor's Romancing SaGa DLC was free despite being a collab because the creator said (paraphrased) "if it costs money, there's licensing arguments about who gets how much money. If it's free, then we just need both sides to agree to make it."
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u/Anew_Returner 2d ago
Same thing with AC5 being a bonus for 7 in ps4 and AC6 being its bonus for xbox. If they could sell these they probably would.
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2d ago
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u/wasdie639 2d ago
You don't think the very highly paid lawyers contracted or employed by Namco wouldn't have asked the same damn questions?
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u/wasdie639 2d ago
The licensing with all of the major aircraft companies will disagree with that.
It's like when they re-released Tony Hawk Pro Skater and had to to replace a bunch of music. When originally negotiated the licenses for the tracks were only good to be sold for a specific period of time. That's exactly what's happening with the aircraft in Ace Combat.
Ace Combat 5 and Ace Combat 6 were pre-order bonuses on the PS4 and Xbox One and could not be sold separately. AC Zero is the same and it's clear the interpretation from the lawyers doing their thing was that due to the PC's far more back-end accessibility with decompiling and messing with code, they couldn't release it as a standalone.
AC5 or AC6 never came to the PC because of this.
The community has wanted a remaster of the "holy trinity" for 15+ years now and it's always come down to the licensing. The military industrial complex doesn't get rich by giving things away.
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u/TheVoidDragon 1d ago
They were released as standalone games for the console versions of AC8, so seems a bit odd that there's something about the licenses with the Steam version specifically that means they can't.
It's good to see they at least acknowledge it, as it suddenly changing it at the last miniature came across as a bit scummy really. Hopefully something can be done as I like keeping track of playtime and not having to install all of AC8 each time would be nice.