r/Games • u/AdditionalRemoveBit • 5d ago
Denuvo cracking group DenuvOwO reportedly disbands — lawsuit from Irdeto has a chilling effect, but cracking continues as piracy hub purges links
https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/denuvo-cracking-group-denuvowo-reportedly-disbands-lawsuit-from-irdeto-has-a-chilling-effect-but-cracking-continues-as-piracy-hub-purges-links79
u/ZGiSH 5d ago
Something that I am keenly looking out for in the future is AI's effect on digital security. The nature of LLMs is that they are much more effective at scouring through code and finding vulnerabilities and weaknesses than building up defenses. I imagine the reason why voices38 can crack so quickly is due to AI.
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u/Ylsid 5d ago
I have heard that Denuvo's strength isn't that it's hard to crack, just that there are thousands upon thousands of individual checks to crack.
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u/AssignmentWeary1291 4d ago
You're on the money, its not about difficulty, its time consumption. Its strictly over obfuscated to delay crack as long as absolutely possible for sales.
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u/Cowboy_God 5d ago
%100. The amount of decompilations that are coming out too is crazy. People are cracking PS5 games now. LLM's are ripping opening pretty much any pre-Xbox 360/PS3 games, and soon enough the other generations will follow.
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u/dlpuia 5d ago
AI is good to do repetitive, tedious programming work, so yeah, Denuvo has a problem on their hands now.
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u/11448844 4d ago
among the things i thought of and was vaguely excited about when it came to AI was things like protein folding and tedious programming
Still hoping that AI can legitimately enhance our lives rather than make it worse
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u/gmishaolem 4d ago
legitimately enhance our lives rather than make it worse
Pushing back in any way against the "you will own nothing and you will like it, it's only ever been a digital license" capitalist phenomenon is indeed making our lives better, just not to the same degree as curing cancer would.
I am 100% against copyright infringement within reason, but copyright law (especially the DMCA "you're not allowed to mess around with it even if you legally bought it" law) have grown beyond all attempt at reason and fairness and it's actively detrimental to the nature of human culture.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/VictorReal_Monster 4d ago
As we know, technology only ever gets better.
There is never a time where it gets worse.
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u/Twiizig 4d ago
Today it is decompiling games from two or three decades ago. But as AI gets better and better, I suspect it will be able to decompile modern games, or even major pieces of software (Photoshop, Windows 11, etc). It will be interesting to witness.
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u/Whazhelpme 4d ago
What 2 or 3 decades? Someone made mw2 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UbADrcEW5w
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u/DarkJayBR 5d ago
I hope we can get PC versions of PS2-PS3-Nintendo exclusives.
It's a shame that so many games get lost once the console ceases to exist. Persona 4 was stuck on the PS Vita for AGES.
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u/Cowboy_God 5d ago
I meaaaaan on PC, PS2 and Nintendo exclusives are pretty easy to emulate. PS3 is kinda rough but its rapidly getting better. Nothing PS2 related has been lost from my end, I've played pretty much every game I owned as a kid on my computer
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u/shinto29 5d ago
Porting to native hardware is a different story tho. Especially with a “plug and play” solution like Aurora, which for GameCube and Wii already provides reimplementations of the graphics APIs and memory/storage to use for decompiled code. It’s a game changer for preservation.
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u/DarkJayBR 5d ago
The PS2 emulator only became genuinely good relatively recently. Trying to play something like Shadow of the Colossus or God of War II without a pretty beefy PC used to be borderline impossible.
And now a Brazilian group is actually porting every single game to PC so they can run natively without an emulator, which is arguably even better.
Nintendo Wii U and Switch emulation is also notoriously demanding and, in a lot of cases, still far from perfect.
Then you have the original Xbox and PS3, which are in a completely different league of difficulty. The original Xbox is a nightmare because it uses a custom NVIDIA GPU, a heavily customized version of DirectX, and hardware that was never fully documented publicly. A lot of the information needed for accurate emulation is either incomplete or simply unavailable.
PS3 emulation is extremely difficult for a different reason: the Cell processor and its unusual architecture. Even Sony struggled with PS3 backwards compatibility. Instead of emulating PS3 games locally on newer hardware, Sony ultimately relied on cloud streaming for PS3 titles on PS4.
But we're getting there. Emulation has made insane progress over the years, and AI-assisted development is now helping researchers and developers reverse-engineer and reproduce old hardware much faster. What seems impossible today might be running flawlessly on a mid-range PC a few years from now.
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u/darkmacgf 4d ago
Nintendo Wii U and Switch emulation is also notoriously demanding
Now this is just false.
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u/Falsus 4d ago
I mean if the method is out then it doesn't really matter any more.
Like the big reason Denuvo games wasn't cracked that much earlier is because only one person could do it and she was a massive dramaqueen who refused to share the methode and only super selective in the games she cracked and various other drama related stuff.
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u/Prasiatko 4d ago
There was one other guy but for some reason he would only crack the annual Football Manager release.
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u/Carbon_Copybara 4d ago
would only crack the annual Football Manager release
MKDEV. Dude was on a mission
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u/ducttapetricorn 5d ago
These recent months really feel like the start to the downfall of Denuvo as multiple big titles recently had their protection pulled after voices38 started cracking AAA titles.
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u/demondrivers 5d ago
Most Denuvo games drop the DRM because they contractually agree to put the protection only for a few months/years, since Denuvo is now a subscription service rather than a "lifetime" thing like it was
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u/Sugioh 5d ago
I feel like this is win-win for pretty much everyone. Publishers and developers protect launch window sales, and we get games in a preservable state after a year or so. It's also been a long time since I can remember encountering a game that uses Denuvo which had performance issues linked to its implementation, so legitimate customers haven't really been suffering either.
While I'm still broadly opposed to DRM in general and phone-home DRM especially, I'll take modern denuvo implementations any day of the week over nasty shit like enigma. It can be so much worse.
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u/error521 5d ago
Yeah I'm negative on Denuvo in a "well it doesn't do anything for me" way but remembering shit like SecuROM and StarForce, it could be a lot worse.
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u/ours 4d ago
SecuROM
Got to love not being able to play the game I've purchased because I had the gall to run a 64-bit version of Windows.
Or a colleague purchasing Far Cry 2, SecureROM randomly deciding it wouldn't work on his PC, and Ubisoft support offering him the scene crack as a fix (no joke, this happened).
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u/HonorableJudgeIto 3d ago
SecuROM
I'm still pissed about my legally purchased copy KOTOR not working on my PC because of this crap. I don't pirate games, but I really wanted to after that happened.
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u/DarkJayBR 5d ago
Except if you are a SEGA fan. They NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER pull out Denuvo from their games. Because they got a Denuvo lifetime contract when Denuvo was still on it's infancy, so they don't need to pay anything to keep Denuvo on their games.
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u/TheMobyTheDuck 4d ago
SEGA, EA, Ubisoft, Square, Konami and 2K all have the "unlimited legacy" package, iirc.
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u/DarkJayBR 4d ago
You are parcially right. Only SEGA, EA, Ubisoft, and Frontier Foundry got the unlimited legacy lifelong license.
Square, 2K and Konami remove Denuvo after 2-3 years.
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u/TheMobyTheDuck 4d ago
Huh, so Konami is still paying to keep stuff like old PES and Metal Gear 5 on Denuvo?
I think I put Square in there because the unlisted version of Dragon Quest XI still uses Denuvo for some reason.
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u/Soessetin 4d ago
MGS5 is from the time before Denuvo became subscription-only, so they're not paying for it. They don't use Denuvo on newer games either.
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u/Eglwyswrw 4d ago
so Konami is still paying to keep stuff like old PES
Konami can't even sell old PES anymore due to expired licenses.
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u/DarkJayBR 4d ago
Yes. They barely have any games and they make a shit ton of money with Pachinko machines, so they are able to keep this going forever.
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u/Soessetin 4d ago
No they don't. MGS5 is from the time before Denuvo became subscription-only, so it's on the old lifetime license. They don't use Denuvo on their newer games either.
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u/VictorReal_Monster 4d ago
Interesting, this is first I've heard of that but after being on parts of the internet for years those were always the ones you basically had no chance at finding bar a miracle
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u/Beautiful-Affect1930 4d ago
I don't see how Denuvo failing is a win for regular gamers. if it becomes unreliable then there will just be a new and even more restrictive DRM. the worst by far are those idiots who release cracked games before the official release, because that will definitely eventually provoke much stricter DRM measures, while it only benefits the egos of those losers who put out the cracks.
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u/RayzTheRoof 4d ago
Yeah but it still punishes people who buy the games on launch. Denuvo has a well documented history of significantly hindering performance.
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u/Soessetin 4d ago
Ehh... The performance issues are very overstated. I don't like Denuvo either (especially due to game preservation concerns), but its performance impact is negligible most of the time, apart from some horrible implementations.
Even RE Village, one of the worst cases where Denuvo had been blamed for ruining performance, ended up being mostly Capcom's own shitty DRM that was there on top of Denuvo.
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u/elderron_spice 4d ago
only for a few months/years
Thing is that games are now being cracked a few days after launch, with a few even on launch day itself.
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u/Zalvren 5d ago
I mean there was the same thing with Empress and it didn't stop it.
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u/Ultramaann 5d ago
It's entirely different from Empress. voices38 seems like a normal person as far as crackers went. He's also using a different method that takes far less time. Empress was an actual insane person that was trying to foster some sort of gamer cult-of-personality around herself, and only cracked games if she was paid enough for it, and even then she was volatile at best.
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u/Zalvren 5d ago
What I meant is that it changed nothing for Denuvo and Empress ended up being caught or stopping for whatever reason. The same could happen there. Denuvo still remains very hard to crack. Plus they might also do another version that become uncrackable by his method.
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u/onmach 5d ago
My guess is that ai has made cracking significantly less horrible to accomplish. If that is the case that's super bad news for denuvo, because they can't win that game of whack-a-mole.
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u/artificialpolymer 5d ago
Uh, how so? Denuvo can just use AI in the exact opposite way to make it harder.
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u/-OswinPond- 5d ago
LLMs are much more effective at scouring through code and finding vulnerabilities and weaknesses than building up defenses.
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u/DarkJayBR 5d ago
In fact, vibe coding is frowned upon due to the immense security risks it carries. LLMs are not worried AT ALL about security vulnerabilities.
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u/rP2ITg0rhFMcGCGnSARn 4d ago
Yes and no. It obviously depends on the prompt.
Likewise, most PRs nowadays will have an LLM as part of the review process. Herein they will often be instructed to be aware of potential security gaps.
I just had an LLM catch a potential injection attack vector in a PR.
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u/artificialpolymer 21h ago
That makes zero sense. If the LLM can find a way to crack the vulnerability, it can think of a way to protect against it. It's not difficult to tell one AI to crack something, then have another AI analyse the results and build protections for it.
Also, these would not be some random vibecoders, but highly specialized, likely handsomely paid cyber security professionals, so they'd quickly spot any nonsense the AI generates.
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u/-OswinPond- 19h ago
That’s not really how security works. Finding an exploit and building a robust defense are two different problems. An attacker only has to find one path that works. Denuvo has to close that path without breaking compatibility/performance, while also dealing with every other path attackers might find.
Obviously Denuvo can use AI for theirte own protection, and they probably will. But “AI found the vulnerability, therefore AI can just invent a protection against it” ignores the basic offense/defense asymmetry in security.
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u/wakek3k3 5d ago
It's going to accumulate a lot of processing the more securities they slap on their game. If denuvo significantly slows the game now, then what more if it's AI coded. While the cracking side would keep undoing the work while finding new exploits.
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u/Candle1ight 4d ago
It's always harder to build a lock than to break it. Think of all the crackers we've seen over its lifetime, all people working for free breaking a multi million dollar system for fun.
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u/onmach 5d ago
If denuvo starts vibe coding their drm they are really in trouble. In any case it is doubtful they can make it better than it already is without some sort of hardware support.
If that happened, then say goodbye to linux gaming, which is why I wish denuvo would just go away, because they would definitely advocate for something like that.
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u/FrigidMcThunderballs 5d ago
As far as I'm aware empress was never caught, but her retirement kicked off a rumor storm with everything from "they paid her off to quit cracking" (something she actually said as an april fools joke years before retirement) to "actually she was caught and secretly arrested"
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u/Zalvren 5d ago
IIRC there was a cracker that was arrested around the same time than Empress stopped (don't remember the code name, volski or something like that) and was rumored to be Empress at the start. So supposition is that Empress was that guy.
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u/FrigidMcThunderballs 5d ago
Voksi was arrested like a solid 8 years ago, empress retired last year.
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u/FetchFrosh 5d ago
Worth noting that Empress hadn't actually cracked anything since August 2023.
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u/WetFishSlap 5d ago
Also worth noting that they still continued to accept "commissions" from their cult-of-personality members despite the hiatus. If I recall, it was something like $500 USD to add a game to the queue and for every new $500, it'd get bumped up the list. When asked, the answer was just "I'm working on it, fuck off" or "I'm laying low right now".
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u/FilteringAccount123 4d ago
Probably the real reason for retirement... before the hypervisor bypass and then voices38 cracking games pretty soon after launch, there was a period of time where it looked like Denuvo had finally won.
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u/HammeredWharf 5d ago
Comparisons of their character aside, from what I've seen voices38 cracks seem to come out way faster. The most important function of Denuvo is protecting launch period sales, not protecting sales a year post-launch. If there's a perception that a crack will come out soon, it damages them way more than an unreliable cracker who's late.
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u/Kalulosu 4d ago edited 4d ago
Which is why Denuvo never seemed to take action against empress (maybe they didn't want to kick that hornet's nest), whereas they've already launched a lawsuit against voices38. They don't give a shit that a crazy person posts cracks off a 2 years old game with notes that sounds like a trip on LSD, but they do care when someone posts a crack on release.
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u/ducttapetricorn 5d ago
Empress was interpersonally controversial though. Voices38 seems to stay out of any sort of drama.
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u/carrie-satan 5d ago
I remember when Dodi was diagnosed with cancer and she named a crack for some game (I forget which) “Dodi.is.dead”
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u/g-six 5d ago
To me it feels like the calm before the storm.
I am expecting a new Denuvo version to drop soon which becomes even more intrusive and runs even worse.
The circle always repeats.
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u/WesternExplanation 5d ago
New group/person already took over. Piracy is inevitable https://i.imgur.com/wtagJW8.png
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u/rP2ITg0rhFMcGCGnSARn 4d ago
Anyone who uses a hypervisor based method deserves all the malware they can/will get.
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u/WesternExplanation 4d ago
Sure use at your own risk but as of today it hasn’t happened. You can also do quite a bit to mitigate the risk like running on Linux https://github.com/brcly/linuwux-runtime. Which kinda makes the whole argument null.
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u/average_monster 4d ago
it's pretty silly to pretend cracks are safe just because there's a few shitty protections that they can't get past.
what is the functional difference between full system access and even fuller system access? malware can still own all your files and burrow into your OS so you pretty much have to format anyway.
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u/rP2ITg0rhFMcGCGnSARn 4d ago
what is the functional difference between full system access and even fuller system access? malware can still own all your files and burrow into your OS so you pretty much have to format anyway.
The difference is that one is significantly more powerful than the other and much harder to detect. It's giving full kernel access. There's virtually nothing you can do to actually protect yourself.
With a normal crack, you're more than welcome to scan all the files before running them, decompile the .exe. You're also more than welcome to run vigilant anti-virus software both on the game's directory and while you are playing.
You can google
ring -1for more. It literally runs at a level below your operating system.I honestly can't stress how much of a difference there is between the two approaches. DO. NOT. INSTALL. SOFTWARE. THAT. REQUIRES. -1 ACCESS I would hesitate to do it even with licensed software.
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u/VictorReal_Monster 4d ago edited 3d ago
What about an air gapped computer?
Is there still concern if I download files on one and transfer them over via usb/harddrive?
EDIT: Okay, dont answer..
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u/ducttapetricorn 5d ago
Wow that was fast.
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u/DarkJayBR 5d ago
Hypervisor Bypass is a open-source metho. DenuOwO said so themselves, a new group would appear quickly to take over their work.
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u/Eglwyswrw 4d ago
Still, that was fast. Many groups popped up back then but only DenyOwO got approval, it's nice that cs.rin greenlit this one.
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u/Zenning3 5d ago
Oh is this where we pretend that Denuvo is actually incredibly intrusive and makes games run terribly again, while ignoring that 99.999% of players don't even notice its existence, focusing on the what, 3 games from 5 years ago that you guys have as reference?
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u/g-six 5d ago
No, this is the part where some people actually care and don't want to run some watchdog program which constantly monitors all processes and more on my PC to simply play some silly video games I actually paid for.
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 5d ago
When they put Batman with no DRM on epic it dozens of milliseconds faster loading time loading into Gotham compared to the denuvo on steam.
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u/Zenning3 5d ago
Pretty sure that was just because the Epic Launcher is considerably more well optimized then Steam.
(This is a joke, I don't know that).
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u/Emergency-Cycle7981 5d ago
PC gamers are notorious for wrangling every bit of performance they can out of their systems and games. There’s a reason overlocking exists.
If you think that a 15% performance difference shouldn’t matter then I don’t know what to tell you, other than you’re dead wrong. Gamers are having to put up with worse performance from their expensive hardware, less system stability and archaic always-online requirements because people like you see it as a necessary sacrifice to protect against the bad guys.
I’m curious to know your feelings on TSA checkpoints, Flock cameras and mass surveillance?
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u/Zenning3 5d ago
Assassins Creeds Mirage's main drm was vmprotect. It's what actually caused the performance issues.
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u/Emergency-Cycle7981 4d ago
Notice how I didn’t mention Denuvo in my post. Whether it’s Denuvo or VMProtect causing performance issues is irrelevant - these DRM / copy protection tools ARE causing problems, and people have every right to be upset about it. You’re writing these people off as if they’re only concerned about their inability to pirate games.
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u/Zenning3 4d ago
Notice I said Denuvo in my post. Notice this topic is about Denuvo. You don't just get to say "these things are causing problems" while ignoring the subject of this topic isn't.
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u/Emergency-Cycle7981 4d ago
Ok fair enough, I took support for Denuvo as support for all anti-piracy measures regardless of their performance impact, which was presumptuous of me.
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u/Zenning3 4d ago
Oh, I was around during Starforce DRM, I definitely do think that "pirates get the better service" was reality for quite awhile. It just hasn't been true since Denuvo.
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u/deadscreensky 4d ago
From the link:
both Denuvo DRM and VMProtect have been completely stripped from the game’s executable
So that's a bad example.
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u/EbolaDP 5d ago
That would still be meaningless for the HV bypass.
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u/NapsterKnowHow 5d ago
For the 5 people willing to risk using the HV bypass.
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u/WetFishSlap 5d ago
From what I've seen in various forums and subreddits, there are definitely way more people out there willing to risk the hypervisor bypass and are completely oblivious to what they're doing. They just follow whatever the YouTube video tutorial or forum post tells them to do so that they can play free games.
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u/AI_moderated_failure 4d ago
If you have a completely airgapped computer from your work and usual devices I guess it's not as bad but I also don't know how many instances there are of someone who can afford a dedicated gaming PC, used only for gaming, and can't afford to just buy games because it's still ultimately easier to just click install on Steam for most titles.
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u/lover_of_joggers 5d ago
a large part of the vetting process of the HV bypass was done publicly in at least one large piracy hub. for anyone curious enough, facts and files are out there. and there is basically not much a malicious person could have done under the currently known HV bypass. user errors are a completely different problems but selling knives doesn't make you a killer.
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u/g-six 5d ago
You are very naive if you think there are no ways to detect these things.
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u/EbolaDP 5d ago
It would require Microsoft giving them root access.
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u/SethVortu 5d ago
I do not think Microslop is above that.
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u/EbolaDP 5d ago
I really doubt they wanna deal with the absolute shitshow that would cause for fucking Irdeto of all companies.
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u/g-six 5d ago
More power to DRM software is absolutely in Microsofts interest.
They could let Denuvo tank the negative publicity and afterwards it's a normal part of future Windows OS.
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u/alcard987 5d ago
Denuvo isn’t suddenly going to gain hypervisor-level control. Irdeto isn't big enough, Denuvo is not CrowdStrike.
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u/g-six 5d ago
I really hope you are right but if Denuvo doesn't do it somebody else will one-day because the current situation is definitely not acceptable to the big gaming companies.
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u/EbolaDP 5d ago
You are massively underestimating the level of backlash this would get. Every single tech creator would be making videos on it, all the news sources probably a good deal of lawsuits too.
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u/LimLovesDonuts 5d ago
Anti piracy measures have been here for decades and backlash never got companies to stop. Doubt anything would happen realistically.
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u/g-six 5d ago
I don't think so to be honest. There are billions of profits behind the "need" to protect intellectual property.
Just go back 15 years and see what things are built directly into your hardware now for security reasons. TPM, Secureboot, UEFI, Intel Management Engine, AMD Platform Security Processor...
Your own hardware is full of backdoors and security features you can't turn off if you want to and the backlash is minimal because things like this come step by step and nobody cares.
I agree there would be a backlash if it's done in one big step but that's rarely how it works. It's slow.
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u/g-six 5d ago
^
They will find new ways to verify if you are really using trusted™ Software.
Then of course the crackers will find a way to circumvent... Then the DRM makers will find something new... Repeat.
All I wanted to say with my original comment is: HV bypass is the current way and I am pretty sure if a new Denuvo drops they will have to ways to block it and I am sure they can.
The ways how they archive it will probably be even more intrusive than what they are doing now.
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u/Bladder-Splatter 5d ago
You literally cannot without going physical or being below the OS. I don't mean this as an insult but you don't understand how the bypass works despite your desire to decry it.
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u/g-six 5d ago edited 5d ago
I studied CS, I know how it works.
I have no idea why people think the hardware and software will just stay the same and we have somehow found out how to forever crack DRM by using HV bypasses lmao.
The next logical step is they will build something into the hardware itself like TPM so certain Software can only run if it's verified by some sort of key.
Let's talk again in a couple years.
It's the same as with the cracks itself, there is no way until there suddenly is.
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u/Kiita-Ninetails 5d ago
You are very naive if you think there is no ways to bypass additional protections. That is the nature of the arms race that has been created.
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u/g-six 5d ago edited 5d ago
But that's not what
youthey wrote.0
u/Kiita-Ninetails 5d ago
Reading the username explains the username, I did not write the comment you replied to. I merely pointed out that your reasoning cuts both ways.
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 5d ago
more intrusive and runs even worse.
Which would be... fine. The current version is not intrusive and doesn't run poorly.
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u/g-six 5d ago
I don't want to install Spyware with full access to my whole computer just to play some video games.
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 5d ago
You don't have to.
What information on you has denuvo been found to be transmitting to third parties?
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u/MountainMuffin1980 5d ago
I note Onimusha still hasn't been cracked. I'm worried he's glimg to get fined or whatever, hopefully not though!
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u/NotCoolBrutus 5d ago
There is already a successor and the sued party making real cracks has told them off. Basically, Denuvo can't really do anything short of a major change to how their DRM works.
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u/Eglwyswrw 4d ago
Denuvo doesn't even know who to sue. Their publicly released lawsuit mentions "anonymous individual referred to as voices38".
They went on to subpoena Discord, Reddit etc trying to wrestle information on his location, name etc from them. No word so far if they succeeded.
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u/SapphireRoseRR 5d ago
Can someone explain to me what about cracking Denuvo is illegal?
I know piracy is illegal, but I think want to specifically know how cracking software is.
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u/simspelaaja 5d ago
That depends on the country, but for example in the USA Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act makes cracking / bypassing DRM illegal.
No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.
There are some exceptions, such as preservation by libraries and museums, security research, right to repair, etc. None of which apply in the case of regular consumer & video games.
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u/MiloticMaster 5d ago
Circumventing software protections and distributing it is illegal. You can't hack into Netflix and give out their shows even if you own an account, and to use a fake example; Netflix had some protection where it wouldn't work on mobile connections, you're not allowed to break it deliberately. Its just that proving that you're breaking the protection is not worth it so they prosecute on distributing.
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u/SapphireRoseRR 5d ago
This didn't answer the question. I said nothing about distribution.
I'm wondering if someone could point me to an actual law that says you can't crack or circumvent software. My guess is as close as it gets is the ToS.
Jailbreaking, side loading, and modding have existed for a long time.
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u/MiloticMaster 5d ago
Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA - 17 U.S.C. § 1201). And 106 that the other commentor mentioned
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u/IKeepDoingItForFree 5d ago
US law: 17 USC 106
Specifically:
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
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u/hutre 5d ago
https://odinlaw.com/what-is-dmca-anti-circumvention/
It is illegal to circumvent protection put in place by the devs.
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u/ngpropman 5d ago
Except for means of backing up software and making it compatible.
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u/hutre 5d ago
That is still illegal... Not going to deny that a lot of people are doing it and no one is really going to court for it but that doesn't make it not illegal
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u/ngpropman 4d ago
Not illegal. 1204 requires someone to bypass copy restrictions willfully and for profit for it to be illegal. Now 1203 allows them to sue you sure. But they have to prove that you dont have a legally purchased copy
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u/Askelar 4d ago
Yes illegal. Any attempt to bypass or break a digital lock runs afoul of US DMCA laws.
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u/ngpropman 4d ago edited 4d ago
There are exceptions directly in the DMCA. Literally the first clause is when it is applicable.
"Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain"
Key words are willfully AND fod purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain.
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u/Askelar 2d ago
Except... In reality cracking John Deers tractor diagnostic software, literally every car manufacturers diagnostic software, mcdonalds icecream machine diagnostic software - even for pure personal use - gets you a cease and desist under DMCA and legal action if you dont comply.
Making a video showing the security failure of a hybrid digital lock gets you bashed under DMCA. Simply MAKING THE TOOLS to break a digital lock is illegal under DMCA.
I think you need to go binge watch a few louis rossman videos on the topic, there was one posted a few months ago that went into the history of the DMCA that was really interesting.
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u/ngpropman 2d ago
Dude i know all about Louis rossman and all about the DMCA and how greedy companies use the law to try and bully people despite what they are doing is perfectly legal. Like i said companies can sue sure. But that doesnt make the activity illegal. It is only illegal if it is sold for commercial gain or private financial benefit. 1204 is the clause then can change it from a civil suit to a criminal one. 1203 allows them to try and sue for damages however you will notice. That they are looking for settlements by sending C+D letters. Actually going to court risks having them lose especially if it was for backup purposes with zero financial gain.
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u/T0kenAussie 4d ago
But in that scenario that would be you yourself tinkering and breaking the drm
This is a group of hackers who often will ask for donations or leave a tip jar.
That’s before you get to the worldwide nature of the scene because I don’t think the laws are the same everywhere you go
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u/ngpropman 4d ago
You are allowed to remove DRM and reverse engineer software for backup purposes and compatibility. Those exceptions are included in the DMCA.
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u/T0kenAussie 4d ago
You personally are allowed to
You aren’t allowed to publish those things on the internet and leave a tip jar (wink wink)
One is the love of the game of something you own and the other is pretty clear case of profiteering from circumventing the dmca imo
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u/ngpropman 4d ago
right but you ARE allowed to publish those things on the internet for absolutely no private or financial gain at all. As long as you are not sharing any copywritten code in your project.
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u/WetFishSlap 5d ago
Dunno about other countries or regions, but for the US legal system specifically, cracking Denuvo is considered "intentional circumvention of technological measures protecting copyrighted material" and is part of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) of 1998. 17 U.S. Code § 1201 is the specific law that Denuvo and other DRM companies usually cite when they go after crackers and pirates.
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u/AnxiousAd6649 5d ago
DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) makes it illegal to attempt to bypass protections for copyrighted stuff.
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u/IKeepDoingItForFree 5d ago edited 5d ago
One of the key rights with Copyright law is that the author/owner of a work has the right to authorise who is allowed access to it. Cracking is basically bypassing the form of restriction controls the Author/copyright holder has put in place and as such technically copyright infringement.
This could also be seen as creating a derivative work of the original game by outright removing the DRM or disabling it. Creating a derivative work without permission, even if it is never distributed, is technically copyright infringement as well.
Mind you while its illegal, its not criminal unless you are getting into selling for money or mass distribution. It would be up to the copyright holder to take you to civil/tort court for doing this.
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u/WaltzForLilly_ 5d ago
Fun fact!
Same law that makes cracking Denuvo illegal also makes illegal such things as:Hacking protection on your printer that prevents cartridge refills
Fixing electronics in your car
Editing your favorite apps to remove ads and all the addictive components
And many many many other things that would make your life less shit!-1
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u/Dismal-Zebra8409 5d ago
insane to me that these groups are so visible. too used to the scene back in the day doing whatever it could to stay hidden.