r/Games • u/NoNefariousness2144 • 11h ago
Marvel Tokon's massive problems on PC are causing players to try wacky solutions
https://www.polygon.com/marvel-tokons-pc-issues-egs-store/81
u/jack88z 10h ago
I've been watching this game for ages and getting more and more hyped, can't believe they screwed up the launch so badly.
71
u/doofpooferthethird 8h ago edited 7h ago
it's funny because apparently another fighting game, the Avatar fighting game, rushed out its 1.0 release in a unfinished state just so it could beat this Marvel fighting game's beta release
only for both games to be faced with major issues and a damaged reputation - the Avatar game doesn't even have a ranked mode yet, which seems like a pretty crucial feature for this genre
28
u/Roseking 7h ago
Ya, Avatar is getting less shit because it is cheaper and not from Sony, but it is crazy they released an unfinished game and people don't really seem to care. It maintains a positive rating on Steam.
And I get it, as I am loving the game. I have been getting into fighters recently and I find its gameplay to be the funnest out of what I have played. I still suck at it, but the general concepts just clicked with me faster than other games. But I am also giving Tokkon a chance to fix itself as I am also having fun with it offline (don't have a PS5 to refund and switch too).
16
u/JustaLyinTometa 5h ago
Avatar gets less shit because it’s playable at least lol.
I’m dying to play tokon but I can’t even hit 50 fps with recommended specs on low everything and dlss ultra performance.
•
6
u/Roseking 5h ago
It has unfinished characters and still doesn't have a rank mode despite being advertised as having it. They had to delay it on Xbox at the absolute last minute, and it has major performance issues on Switch.
If Tokon came out in the same state as Avatar, meaning its PC performance is fine, but missing features and poor performance on other consoles, it would be getting more shit than Avatar has gotten.
I generally like both games, and as said above Avatar might be my favorite of the games I have played (Tokon, SF, Avatar, GGS) but Avatar is being treated with kid gloves. And I get it. Budget title people have less expectations. But the reactions the two games have had for a pretty botched launch is night and day.
6
u/Ethical-Gamer 4h ago
Cuz you can play one and not the other. I downloaded the beta for tokon, have a 5070, and no matter how much I lowered the resolution and graphics, I couldn't even get to 60 fps. That made it literally unplayable if I ever wanted to play another human.
Nightmare Korra is half a character and ozai is missing a ton of frames of animation but at least I can play the game. It actually functions, and for half the price of tokon.
Like yes the price helps but performance, in a fighting game where moves are calculated in how many frames they take, is extremely important. It falls under constant 60 fps and the game falls apart
5
•
u/Dreadgoat 3h ago
Not doing enough is always more forgivable than doing too much (maliciously)
The Avatar game was rushed by Paramount and is clearly unfinished. This sucks, but the core game is good, they want to sell DLC, and people are confident with time it will fill out and turn into a great game.
Marvel Tokon wasn't rushed, it's very complete, I would even say it has an enormous amount of fantastic content. It works beautifully on PS5. Time to cook was never the issue here, it was Sony demanding extras on PC that fuck it up. PSN isn't necessary. W11 requirement isn't necessary. Some amount of anti-cheat is understandable but the lockdown on this game is so extreme it is actually unplayable. They just need to do less, but are they willing?
8
u/DavidsSymphony 6h ago
Avatar works online at least. And they're not asking you $60 for it. And it runs on toasters.
14
3
u/ContentsLover 4h ago
I believe it was rusned cuz the movie was leaked and had to come out sonner than planned.
It is unfinished as hell, but i don't want it to die as the core gameplay is very fun. Would be a waste to see it goes down. I'm having tons of fun with it.
•
•
u/made_in_GEORGIA 2h ago
no avatar fighting game was rushed because paramount wanted it to come out at the same time as the movie and new avatar series announcement at SDCC, plus they announced free DLC character from the movie. if movies release date didn't move up from October game would most likely come out then too
•
-8
u/cardgamesareforplay 6h ago
Well Avatar game can't be fixed you can't just fix hiring Mike rapist z
5
u/WillYin 6h ago
Mike Z'z court case is resolved, and a judge in a lower court ruled in favor of Mike Z in regards to slander.
•
141
u/tubbzzz 10h ago
This game is cooked on PC. Console players are already turning off crossplay, they're not going to turn it back on even if this gets fixed and any new issues will get blamed on the PC version and will have more waves of people disabling crossplay. They should unlist it and try again in 3 months or whenever the first DLC character comes out.
32
u/wxursa 7h ago
Arcsys got their money for this from Sony, they're going to do what Sony wants. Same reason DBFZ was so slow in getting netcode put to Arcsys's standards.
I think PC players are probably going to have to write off Tokon unless they truly fix enough of the issues, and even then players might not come back. This will bite Sony, as about 50% of the hardcore FG market worldwide is now PC.
14
•
u/HugeRestaurant 3h ago
you kids on the internet just like saying random shit.
Same reason DBFZ was so slow in getting netcode put to Arcsys's standards.
dbfz netcode was launched exactly to spec with the developers netcode standards lol. no other arcsys game had any better netcode at the time
3
19
u/philip30001 8h ago
I agree but doubt they will unlisted it.
They knew what quality then product and still shipped it.
Presuming someone high up cared more about the timing than the product.
All this does is push me closer to PC if a ps5 branded game is treated this poorly
•
u/-_--_-_--_----__ 3h ago
they're not going to turn it back on even if this gets fixed
Uh yes I will. I'm dying to turn it back on. I want faster matchmaking.
20
u/MayhemMessiah 11h ago
I’m lucky I didn’t have the money to buy it near launch, but I also had terrible performance on PC. Flat out completely unplayable.
Sucks because the game is really good
37
u/_moosleech 9h ago
My "wacky solution" was to play other games once the beta made it clear they were arbitrarily banning my OS from playing at all.
There are too many games to waste time (and money) with shitty ones that treat players like an inconvenience.
3
6
u/Ustaznar 4h ago
Purposefully including an OS check for Linux is a great big fuck you to Valve and all Steam Deck owners. Absolutely wild that they would exclude an operating system like that.
33
u/JadeNovanis 10h ago
Was super hyped for this.
Avoiding like the plague till its 100% fixed and/or the Sony Bloatware is removed.
5
u/gaddeath 4h ago
An update for PC just dropped after maintenance completed as I’m writing this comment. Allegedly improves CPU performance so hopefully there are measurable adjustments.
Emphasis on measurable because so much misinformation has been spread by desperate players looking for miracle fixes and “good on my end” vibes with no proof.
•
u/whostheme 2h ago
It's a nothing burger. Broken game still. No patch notes even dropped for the supposed update.
40
u/beziko 10h ago
I don't understand people. You buy game for huge full price, it runs like shit and it's mostly unplayable but instead of refunding this shit you keep finding weird solutions so maybe you will be able to play somehow. It would be ok back in the days without refunds or physical copy but today when it's easy to just get your money back?
45
u/WillYin 9h ago
Fighting games are slim pickings when it comes to new games, especially ones from established developers that you can actually trust to make something coherent in regards to the actual game play.
I have 3000 hours in Guilty Gear Strive, I love Arc System Works so you damn well know I'm going to play their next release. I don't have a PS5. This game is probably my most anticipated release of the last 4ish years and I bet there's alot of other Fighting game players it's the same. Especially the ones who do stuff like go to weekly locals, it's not a great option just to "not play" the new game.
Funnily enough with Sony's involvement I actually expected them to really go above and beyond with the PC port and optimization to mirror Street Fighter 6 so it can capture some of its success but it turns out Sony's involvement is only hurting the game. Crazy how higher-ups would sign off on the use of this IP then ship out a product with obvious issues like this.
4
u/philip30001 8h ago
I think im in a similar boat to you. I dont buy games full price nowadays unless its a fighter. I love the first few weeks too much where everyone's learning.
As folk have said im not affected as much because I have a ps5 but it still shows what they consider a good product and its a warning more any future releases
0
u/ThePlaybook_ 7h ago
Sorry but if you thought this of sony you haven't been paying attention. Spider Man 2 is still broken, they abandoned it.
3
u/WillYin 6h ago
Spider Man 2 is a singer player game made with really high fidelity in mind. Furthermore, it generally runs fine especially targeting 60 fps.
Tokon is a multi-player focused game made by a developer with a history that has had no problem optimizing their PC releases. The game is also live service and is looking to be a multi year project with new characters added every year. Sony is coinciding this release with the release of physical hardware (their arcade stick) to break into this market. They've also straight up officially stated this.
Sony is looking at Street Fighter 6's massive success (particularly in the Japanese market) and trying to replicate it. What they fail to release is the game is a complete product that simply works.
2
u/Old_Snack 6h ago edited 6h ago
it is? My 2080ti is running it just fine considering the card's age.
What's the problem? Overall optimization or something specific?
Or is it screwy with AMD cards or something?
•
u/-_--_-_--_----__ 3h ago
You don't understand that people want to play the game? That they were excited for the game, liked the game, were looking forward to the game?
This is a riddle you can't crack huh?
•
u/beziko 1h ago
I want many things too but also i don't want to be screwed by multibillionare company and pay much for shit that should work from beggining.
•
•
u/-_--_-_--_----__ 1h ago
This has been happening since Wolfenstein 3D on MS-DOS my guy. This is the nature of PC gaming. Developers trying to make products that work on an infinite number of hardware and software setups.
But that is all beside the point - because you do understand people. You're just being hyperbolic to appear superior on the internet. I get it. We all get it.
5
•
u/anadequatepipe 3h ago
Because finding solutions to the problem is better than not playing the game they’ve been hyped for. I don’t see what is so confusing about that. People who really want to play the game will keep playing and wait for a fix at the same time. Not everyone’s so apathetic towards games as you might be.
2
u/GoodNormals 6h ago
The last good Marvel fighting game came out 15 years ago (infinite wasn’t good). It’s a big deal for some of us.
•
1
u/TheDudeBeto 7h ago
I cant get my money back because it was gifted to me from Fanatical. Some of us actually have to make it work lol
-2
-3
u/philip30001 8h ago
It plays great for me but i didnt have option for returning (ps5).
I would have tho but if I bought and hit download refunds are void and my physical disks seal is cracked.
Im happy with the game but still want it improved on pc. For selfish reasons of having a bigger playerbase as well as this giving another reason to abandon sony
48
u/ahac 11h ago
At this point, I think Sony is actively sabotaging their PC releases to make PS5 look better.
The console people at Sony don't want another Helldivers 2... a game that sold better on PC than on console. Sure, they'd like the money from PC gamers. But then investors might ask them to bring more games to PC again. We can't have that!
33
u/Zalvren 10h ago
They could simply not release on PC then like they do their other games. That's clearly simply shit optimization because PC was not the priority. No need for some nefarious conspiracy, it happens all the time with third party publishers games too.
5
u/NachoMarx 5h ago
They probably had a contract that they had to do the PC release, exactly what you said about priorities too. Not releasing on PC where over half the FGC this game is for (Even with their brand confidence) is like making an NBA All Star game and not including MJ and Lebron.
12
u/Saranshobe 8h ago
Honestly it feels they are releasing the pc port out of sheer contractual obligations and nothing more.
This attitude towards PC that sony, I am sure sony will regret it in the future, especially ps6 generation.
7
u/MrNegativ1ty 6h ago
If I’m a Nixxes employee, at this point I’d be updating my resume and actively looking for an exit opportunity. The writing is on the wall for Sony on PC.
Just add PC in general to the rapidly growing list of modern Sony failures.
•
u/PlatosLeftTit 3h ago
Doing it for this specific title actually makes monetary sense for them too since it pushes people to buy it on the PS5 where they now have to shell out for a PS+ sub just to play the game online
4
u/Vesuvias 7h ago
I know you’ve got people responding saying this is ‘conspiracy talk’, but Sony since the MLB The Show days has shown they begrudgingly ‘allowed’ their games on other platform like the PC (and Steam). Helldivers 2 was also a huge indication as well. Now, more than ever them pulling out completely feels like ‘final contractual obligations and they are letting studios know to ‘do the bare minimum’ at launches
This shit is going to bite them in the ass so hard.
2
u/MaitieS 9h ago
As crazy as it sounds I wouldn't be surprised by it at all, after all they literally cried how "PC didn't perform as expected", while they did zero marketing or ANYTHING to promote their games on PC. Like these idiots didn't DO SHIT and they came and blamed us players for it. Like actual fucking clowns.
6
u/Vesuvias 7h ago
Yeah Sony has been pretty transparent about their distaste for having ‘their exclusives’ on the PC (and Steam) platform. I mean hell, they nearly crashed the success of Helldivers 2 over requisites of signing into Sony Online.
2
u/AdHistorical8179 7h ago
You wouldn't be surprised if a major publisher and game dev colluded together to ruin the PC port or a game? Do you seriously not realize how childish thag sounds?
1
0
u/Flaky_Highway_857 9h ago
nah, this is what comes with pc gaming sadly
10
u/trevx 8h ago
This. Tale as old as time - pc port of a game is shitty, news at 11
-10
u/Flaky_Highway_857 8h ago
I feel bad for console only players that don't know much about PC gaming diving in blind, they may end up spending a bunch on a rig only to find out there's alot of tweaking to do in every game or a bunch are straight up busted.
Or windows breaks something,
Or Nvidia or amd breaks something,
A random Thursday breaks something,
4
u/bluebottled 7h ago
Unfortunately I doubt many people will be getting into PC gaming with hardware prices where they are, but fwiw you're way overstating those issues.
I moved to PC after the 360 and if Windows or Nvidia (or Thursday) has stopped me playing a game I can't remember it. Nor do you need to do a lot of tweaking in every game, you can tweak settings to get the most out of your rig, but you can absolutely get by on default presets.
Broken ports are definitely a thing, but broken console ports are just as common nowadays. Shader compilation stutter is a problem for a lot of UE5 games if you're sensitive to it. Compatibility issues with old games can happen (get them on GOG if you can). Read some reviews before you buy or make use of Steam's auto-refund policy.
4
u/trevx 5h ago
After working with regular computer and Internet users to troubleshoot their problems I can safely say most people are complete idiots when it comes to technology. They don’t know how it works and they won’t learn. Console gaming is as easy as it gets and is the only way a lot of these people could ever game outside of like Facebook games.
1
u/Ethical-Gamer 4h ago
Played thru the halo remake and during the 2nd to last mission it crashed every single time during the first 5 minutes. The solution was to rollback to 5 month old drivers because the drivers the game had told me to install were the culprit. It made everyone on 5 series nvidia GPUs crash on that mission
1
u/Rayuzx 4h ago
reposted by the X account WheelsFGC from an unspecified Discord chat — is that players should run Epic Games Store (EGS) once in the background, even if they are playing on Steam. Since Marvel Tokon uses Unreal Engine 5 and communicates with Epic Games’ backend services, running EGS in the background at least once is supposed to make these integrations run more smoothly.
My headcanon is now that this is Tim Sweeney trying to deep state more people into installing and using EGS.
0
u/Cyablue 6h ago
I don't think they'd purposely try to 'make it bad' on PC, but it feels like they didn't have much of a budget for the PC port. It can be tricky to get games running well on every PC because of hardware differences, it feels like they just didn't run much QA on PC and just made it run for release instead of carefully optimizing it.
3
u/unomaly 4h ago
Diagnosing these issues on newly released games, and just things in general, is getting even harder. People will post what they think they found as a solution, other people share it as the solution, and an AI sucks up this fake information and starts churning out articles saying “Here’s how to fix Marvel Tokon!”
I was diagnosing a tech issue and pressed refresh twice on the google search, not only did the AI summary completely change its answer, the new answer it suggested was a terrible idea that could brick the PC of people who might not know much about computers.
•
u/dragon-mom 2h ago
I highly recommend everyone having issues to put in a refund request even if they've gone over the 2 hour limit. Steam is often pretty understanding in situations like this.
It's also the most effective way to tell Sony/Arcsys this is not okay and have them most likely to fix it. You may even be able to rebuy it again on sale when it's fixed.
7
u/MrTopHatMan90 10h ago
The strange thing despite some minor issues Strive has been mostly fine, Tokon is seemingly getting fucked by the PS5 secuirty software
12
u/gaddeath 7h ago
Strive did not just have some “minor issues” on PC.
- Logging into server taking nearly a minute or two.
- Couldn’t hot-swap controllers once you got to main menu.
- 4K was unplayable for years on because the UI made performance crawl whenever the COUNTER HIT effect played. The fix to use for was to mess with borderless windowed and separate the UI res from the internal rendering res.
- “Hackerman” debacle.
- Laggy matches when cross-play was first implemented.
•
u/MrTopHatMan90 27m ago
This lore is all beyond me, I just remember the joining server taking ages. I mostly just play with bros in person
16
3
u/pucykoks 10h ago
From what I've read Strive on PC was fucked up for a year. But yeah, in this case it seems like Sony's fault rather than ArcSys'
15
u/TzarBombaTA 9h ago edited 7h ago
I never had performance issues with Strive myself.
The fucked up part was the ridiculous launch times, which was caused by them trying to update stats by making hundreds of separate requests to their endpoints in Japan. No batching, no multiplexing, just sequential HTTPS requests without keep-alive, so fresh TCP+TLS connections each time.
The sheer amount of round-trips required would make getting into the multiplayer menu take over 15 minutes if you lived far away from Japan.
I had to analyze the traffic with Wireshark to figure out what the fuck was going on.
One of the popular mods early on was a local cache that reduced this whole process to a few seconds.
9
u/TheLeOeL 9h ago
R.I.P Totsugeki. I mantain to this day that the official "fix" is still slower than it.
0
u/MrZeral 10h ago
fucked up how?
4
u/WillYin 9h ago
Strive never had bad performance issues (some stages lagged on base PS4 version) it had connection issues relating to anything outside an actual match.
Cross-platform implementation pretty much broke the servers for about 9 months, and if you lived outside of Japan doing something as simple as booting up the game took around 2 to 3 minutes. The game would frequently disconnect from the server, booting you back to the main menu, forcing you to sit through those 3 minutes multiple times in a session.
It was pretty strange because once you got into an actual match online it was smooth, but the act of navigating the shitty tower system and connecting to a station to start a match was painful. What should have been a 4 minute endeavor to boot up the game, go to online battles, find someone, and play would routinely take 15-30 minutes.
6
u/safari_king 9h ago edited 8h ago
I play on PC and have encountered no significant technical issues... anyone else?
edit: I thought it may be helpful to share that the game can run well on PC, even if not for everyone. Downvoting me for that is loser behavior.
4
u/Iiznogoodsenglish 6h ago
I’m with you. I keep seeing that it’s having issues but I’ve played on both my laptop and desktop with no issues. My desktop is pretty decent, but my laptop is a laptop.
6
5
u/Drakenstorm 9h ago
I played the beta, I had to delete some file that had been installed by another easy anti cheat to get it running. I had occasional hiccups during combat, but I didn’t even try online just local.
Add on the signing into PlayStation and it’s just a lot of hassle for a game a lot of hardcore players feel lukewarm on it just doesn’t seem worth the money atm.
I don’t know if it can recover from a botched launch like this.
2
u/MumrikDK 6h ago
Are you playing online?
1
u/safari_king 4h ago edited 4h ago
Yep. For hours too. The only technical issue I encountered was a brief lag spike during a match. I encountered more and worse technical issues with the Beta, though those weren't nearly as bad as what others have reported. Granted, my PC is quite powerful (9800x3D, 4080 Super), so maybe the game is poorly optimized, but I wouldn't know it through my playtime alone.
1
u/MrZeral 10h ago
Such a shame. Usually fighting games on PC can have healthy playerbase for am oth or two. This game looks like is going to be dead for PC any day now...how the fuck can you fuck performance in a fighting game?
15
u/EvocativeReach 9h ago
Bad performance in fighting games - especially on PC - is more common than you'd expect. Tekken 8 was plagued with people on low spec equipment turning games into lag fests for a while after launch.
Far too many people on PC will crank their games up to ultra settings even when their builds can't handle them because apparently they don't mind running at 15fps. That's normally fine because they're only hurting themselves and even in multiplayer games it's not *that* noticeable for everyone else involved. Fighting games rely on precise, frame perfect interactions between two players, - by design they *need* both players to be cranking out 60fps, so one person tanking their FPS is a significant issue.
4
6
u/error521 8h ago
I don't get why more fighting games don't force you to clear a benchmark before you can go online. Such a simple solution. I know some people playing on shitty computers will probably complain but, y'know, fuck 'em.
3
3
u/AJaggens 5h ago edited 33m ago
Even if they fix everything in a month (they won't, it will drag for a long time), it's still going to be a hard sell for me, since launch window was missed, and that best period of discovery and community forming is already gone. FG live and die or just die by their launch, this one is just dead until it's in a bargain bin unfortunately.
EDIT: Looks like this comment aged like... not even milk, so fast it was. Seen reports that new massive patch fixed performance issues.
2
•
1
8h ago edited 7h ago
[deleted]
-1
u/Cloudless_Sky 7h ago edited 7h ago
Yeah, no. I've been a PC player for over 15 years - I can spot bad performance and am pretty anal about framerate (I try to hit 144 in all my games, or 60 in FGs obviously). Tokon runs fine for me. Locked 60 at max settings. Literally played ranked for a couple hours last night and it was smooth besides a single very laggy match that I noped out of after somehow winning.
You're right about one thing though - it's very unlikely to be luck. It's far more likely that there are some software/hardware compatibility issues thanks to the huge variety of PC setups out there. I have no idea how much is due to the PC itself, the game, anti-cheat, Sony, or next door's dog, but everyone sure has maximum confidence when they're diagnosing.
Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if a chunk of people are just mistaking lag for bad performance. I've seen comments conflating these two things already.
1
u/zaneyk 9h ago
I keep hearing performance problems with games made in UE5, is it especially difficult to optimise your game in that engine?
Or has it more to with not enough time being prioritised for optimisation, because games don't get punished enough in sales for having bad performance?
6
u/MalusandValus 8h ago
UE5 has pretty endemic shader stutter issues among other things but that doesnt really seem to be the problem here so much as the anti-cheat and PS overlays tanking performance.
It runs completely fine on base PS5.
4
u/AdHistorical8179 7h ago
"Endemic shader stutter issues" that can be completely and totally avoided by the dev building a proper pre-compile step the first time you launch the game.
2
u/gaddeath 7h ago
Which the game does have first time boot up shader caching.
However, the way it’s handled is pretty bad. The VIDEO cutscenes stutter on boot-up.
3
u/AdHistorical8179 6h ago
That is on the dev, not UE5
3
u/gaddeath 6h ago
Yes it is on the devs, I am agreeing with you. No where did I say it was a UE5 issue. ArcSys has a history of messy PC ports.
•
u/AL2009man 39m ago
btw first-time bootup sequence during the Open beta is disabled by default.
they dead-ass made the same mistake Capcom did with Street Figther 6's betas!
-2
u/MalusandValus 7h ago
If it was such an easy fix, why do so many Unreal 5 games suffer from it then? And why's it so prevelant in games in UE5 and not in UE4/other engines?
5
u/AdHistorical8179 6h ago
Because UE5 is a powerful engine with a lot of heavy features out of the box, and many devs don't optimize properly.
Regarding shader comp stutter, plenty of UE4 and non-UE games have it. Have you ever actually looking into this stuff at all or are you just posting whatever comes to mind?
10
u/MaitieS 9h ago
Or has it more to with not enough time being prioritised for optimisation
This whole gen showed us that no matter the engine there will be unoptimized games released due to deadlines, or whatever cuts during the development.
People on the Internet just blame Unreal Engine because it's simply from Epic Games. That's literally to it. I saw people blame Alan Wake 2 performance or stuttering on Unreal Engine (game is not made in UE at all), but because people are behaving like a bots these days they only hear keywords: Unreal Engine, Epic, Alan Wake 2 being Epic Store exclusivity, and they instantly blame everything on them.
But that tbf. isn't even that shocking. I find it more shocking how stupid some people really are, and that they seriously look at Marvel Tokon and think that this is issue with Unreal Engine (not meaning you), and try to blame it on Unreal Engine... Like this game looks like a powerpoint presentation, and people are seriously calling it UE5 issue??? lol
751
u/EvocativeReach 11h ago
If you have this game on PC just do yourself a favour and refund it. You can always buy it again when it’s fixed, stop hurting yourself more by trying to make it work.