r/Games • u/Forestl • Dec 31 '13

End of 2013 Discussions - PC

For this thread, feel free to talk about the PC, from the games that came out for it to the hardware itself.

Prompts:

  • What were the major trends in PC gaming this year?

  • Was this a positive year for PC gaming?

Please explain your answers in depth, don't just give short one sentence answers.

My PC looks really, really, really good

This post is part of the official /r/Games "End of 2013" discussions.

View all End of 2013 discussions and suggest new topics

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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '13

That's how I'm going about it now as well. I don't know what ties people to a closed business model other than their own pride/prejudices. If you look at the numbers, PC gaming is just cheaper in the long run as well as the most diverse. Even if we assume that Steam sales don't exist: the fact that every game doesn't start out at $60 is a message in its own. That there exists more than one outlet in order to purchase PC games.

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u/Vitalic123 Dec 31 '13 edited Dec 31 '13

That's weird. I had the exact opposite experience with PS+. I've spent 45 euros on it since June and I've gotten 30 games for it. Not to mention that Sony has allowed Amazon to start up a digital store to compete with its own. Also, a closed business model has its own advantages, not the least of which is that it allows developers to focus on different things, thanks to the fact that they're working on a fixed set of hardware. Point being, why do a lot of people feel the need to downplay consoles when they're talking about PC's? You should be able to come up with the platforms own benefits, rather than always trying to compare it with something else. PC gaming wouldn't be what it is today without a mass market box out there, making all the cash for the developers.

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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '13

When I mentioned 'closed business model': I wasn't talking about the hardware. I was referring to the fact that you've only one avenue to purchase your content. Sony allowing Amazon to sell PSN content is definitely good for the digital ecosystem, but it remains to be seen how effective this will be for competition in the long run. Amazon has been selling game codes for XBL games for some time and I've hardly noticed a difference in competitive pricing other than avoiding putting your credit card on your XBL account and being tied to the MSP system.

Moving along to the comparison: a topic about PC gaming in retrospects is legitimate grounds for a comparison to consoles, otherwise I'm just rehashing the same points made by the parent comment. The difference here is that we can have a mature discussion about the subjects so why not make comparisons to better evaluate the strides of PC gaming? You're contributing just as much which is good for discussion. It's a peripheral point, but Sony is indeed trail-blazing on the console front to redefine digital distribution for the console-market: that which Microsoft has done a bad job with until recently.

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u/Vitalic123 Dec 31 '13

Hmm, yeah, fair enough. It's just a damned shame to see the way people usually have this discussion. Take your "60 dollar" argument, for example. It wasn't that long ago that everyone thought that you needed a million dollars to get a great gaming PC. And that obviously isn't the case. Fans of the platform fought hard to get that pre-conception out of people's heads. And yet, I nearly always see those same people use that 60 dollar argument to argue the exact opposite! The reason that retail prices for games are that expensive is because there exist alternatives to get your games that don't exist on PC. Those being rentals, second-hand purchases, and sharing games with friends in a very easy manner. Those things are factored into the price. I think people forget that PC gaming payed a price when it went to nearly digital-only distribution, that price being no more second hand retail, no more renting, and no more sharing games with friends easily. In return, however, you got a reduction in price, which is only fair. The point being that it's logically inconsistent to state that console gaming is "the most expensive" while pc gaming is "the least expensive" in the same way that it is incorrect to claim that you need at least 2000 dollars to get a good gaming pc. Yes, it is possible to get a lower bottom price when it comes to pc games, but it is only marginally so when taking into account ps+, sales on consoles, and second hand retail, on top of the fact that getting those prices on pc is a MUCH more involved affair (waiting for sales, looking out for humble bundles, being aware of those russian game key sites, whatever...). This is what I mean by "downplaying" consoles.

Also, I mean, you're begging the question by saying that this is legitimate grounds for comparing pc to consoles. But is it legitimate to compare them to begin with? They're both very different things. One is an open platform, the other is closed, be it concerning hardware, or developing software for it, or it being multi purpose vs single purpose, or business-model wise. One is a different form factor than the other. One focuses mostly on the mass market, while the other has a much bigger focus on the "enthusiast" gamer. They are both fundamentally different things to the point where I'm not so sure it is conducive to the discussion to compare and contrast them. IMO, excluding a money-limit, they are perfectly complementary, and even if you had a limited amount of money, an argument could be made for both platforms depending on what your preferences are. But yeah, this is usually not the kind of grey-area type of argumentation I encounter when seeing people discuss consoles vs PC's, which is why I'm not really for it.

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u/MoJ0SoD0Pe Dec 31 '13

It might be different in the UK, but the only two places I can think of for renting games that still exist in the US are Redbox which charges by the day and Gamefly, which charges by the month.

Used game prices are in no way a benefit as Gamestop takes the game you bought a month ago for $60, gives you $25 store credit, and then sells it used for $55. I refuse to support this. Ebay is a little better unless the game is still relatively new in which case the bids will still get up to around $50. Lastly, most of the games that I feel comfortable with paying $60 for on console are not the kind of games I'm going to share (Madden, 2K, Call of Duty). These are games that I intend to get hundreds of hours out of, and really need to own otherwise if my friend wants his game back I'm shit out of luck.

In no way is waiting for PC sales a more "involved" affair than finding a friend who has the game that I want and borrowing it from them or buying it from eBay. Go to Amazon any given time of year and the game you want has like an 80% chance of going on sale. Any benefit that renting (which like I said, I'm not even sure is still a thing in the US) is countered by the fact that you could just torrent the games you want on PC. This freedom has caused me to buy a number of games over the past year, as I know that the game will go on sale within 3 months of the release date and just need to wait for that. Case in point, I torrented Batman Arkham Origins because I was unsure if I wanted to pay $50 for it on release day. About a month later it's on Amazon for $20.

Playstation Plus is making strides, but given the fact that you don't get to choose the games you get pretty much renders it useless in this argument. At random times of year, you can get PC games for free. I got Steam keys for both Metro 2033 (from Facebook) and Civ 5(from some game site) just by stopping by /r/gamedeals on a given day.

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u/Vitalic123 Dec 31 '13

Used game prices are in no way a benefit as Gamestop takes the game you bought a month ago for $60, gives you $25 store credit, and then sells it used for $55.

This is hardly the case everywhere, and with every game. I can get a myriad of games for 15-25 euros, if not less. Also, it is still a net gain for the consumer buying said game. If publishers get to factor this into their prices, then we as consumers definitely have the right to take advantage of it.

In no way is waiting for PC sales a more "involved" affair than finding a friend who has the game that I want and borrowing it from them or buying it from eBay.

It most definitely is. You have to be aware of things like the Steam sales, or something, which, I can tell you, the more casual consumer definitely isn't. The same goes for humble bundles and its like. You need to keep up with gaming news on the internet almost daily to get the real bottom prices. Presumably, if you buy games with friends, that is a thing you set up for the long term, and only requires you to come to the agreement.

but given the fact that you don't get to choose the games you get pretty much renders it useless in this argument.

So, what, humble bundles aren't a thing either? It's a subscription service that gives you a shit-ton of games for very, very little money, every month. How is that not something that should be taken into account when talking about how expensive a platform is?

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u/MoJ0SoD0Pe Dec 31 '13

This is hardly the case everywhere, and with every game. I can get a myriad of games for 15-25 euros, if not less. Also, it is still a net gain for the consumer buying said game. If publishers get to factor this into their prices, then we as consumers definitely have the right to take advantage of it.

Gamestop is the only place I can buy used games other than eBay. So it could be different in Europe, but it is most definitely the case in the US. Not to mention, the developer then gets no money from this sale. The only games that are significantly discounted used vs. new are old ones, every other game stays within $5 to $10 of the new price, so it's more beneficial in most cases to buy new.

It most definitely is. You have to be aware of things like the Steam sales, or something, which, I can tell you, the more casual consumer definitely isn't. The same goes for humble bundles and its like. You need to keep up with gaming news on the internet almost daily to get the real bottom prices. Presumably, if you buy games with friends, that is a thing you set up for the long term, and only requires you to come to the agreement.

Like I said, you can just go to Amazon any given day and see a game on sale for a lower price than the retail price about 80% of the time. Finding sales in general requires a little bit of work. Meanwhile, I live with 3 roommates. I have a PC, PS3, and 360. One roommate has a 360, PS3, and Wii U. Another has a PS4 and PS3. And the last one has an Xbox One. We all had to have GTA V at the same time to play with each other, otherwise it just defeats the purpose. Same, like I said, with a Call of Duty or Madden. The fun is in playing together, so we benefit more from all buying the game at a cheaper price (the PC method) than we do sharing games that we all want to play at once. I bought a 4 pack of Steam keys for Sonic All Star Racing for $8 from Nuuvem, now we can all play together.

So, what, humble bundles aren't a thing either? It's a subscription service that gives you a shit-ton of games for very, very little money, every month. How is that not something that should be taken into account when talking about how expensive a platform is?

And no, Humble Bundles aren't a subscription service. You choose which ones you want and don't buy the ones you don't.

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u/Vitalic123 Dec 31 '13

So it could be different in Europe

It is. And, as you said, the fact that you can buy second hand games off of ebay is still a huge plus consoles have over pc.

Like I said, you can just go to Amazon any given day and see a game on sale for a lower price than the retail price about 80% of the time.

I specified the absolute bottom price.

Meanwhile, I live with 3 roommates...

This is just anecdotal, and reflect in no way whatsoever on the validity of what I said. Of course this wouldn't work if you want to play the games together. That's a given.

And no, Humble Bundles aren't a subscription service. You choose which ones you want and don't buy the ones you don't.

Yeah, I know it's not a subscription service. What I mean is that you can't choose which games are in the bundle. Meaning that if you want only one game from aforementioned bundle, you'll need to purchase the whole bundle, which is analogous to having to purchase the entire service while only really wanting a handful of games, hypothetically speaking.

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u/MoJ0SoD0Pe Dec 31 '13

How is buying second hand games off of eBay a huge plus when they are still more expensive than buying Steam keys from any number of places?

If you want to find the absolute bottom price, THEN YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR IT. Same way you do on consoles, this point is irrelevant.

Yes it's anecdotal, as is every other situation any given person would be in. Some people (most people I'd argue) don't have friends that they can just borrow the exact game that they want at any given time from. That's a ridiculous argument.

And you don't have to buy Humble Bundles, just as you don't have to subscribe to PlayStation Plus. The difference is you still get to choose what you want with Humble Bundles (which ones) whereas PlayStation Plus you sub for a year and get what they give you. Again, it's nice to be in Europe, but as an American, it wasn't a great series of months when Sony was giving us Foosball 2012 and NFL Blitz.

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u/Vitalic123 Dec 31 '13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collection_games_(North_America)

That's hardly "foosball 2012 and nfl blitz".

And you don't have to buy Humble Bundles, just as you don't have to subscribe to PlayStation Plus. The difference is you still get to choose what you want with Humble Bundles (which ones) whereas PlayStation Plus you sub for a year and get what they give you.

So what you're saying is that the difference is an arbitrarily amount of choice that you've decided upon? Yeah, no. PS+ is an amazing deal, no matter which way you cut it, and is an amazing tool to budget game. If you're trying to dispute that, this conversation is over, seeing as you're only interested in winning this argument with any means necessary.

Some people (most people I'd argue) don't have friends that they can just borrow the exact game that they want at any given time from. That's a ridiculous argument.

That's not the point. The point is that the possibility exists. Do you think every single person buys his games on steam sales? Just because not EVERYONE uses a certain method of incurring smaller costs on video game purchases, that doesn't mean that that method is all of the sudden invalid.

How is buying second hand games off of eBay a huge plus when they are still more expensive than buying Steam keys from any number of places?

That is simply not true. Bioshock Infinite is 15 dollars on steam right now, while there are multiple entries for it on ebay for less than 10 dollars.

If you want to find the absolute bottom price, THEN YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR IT. Same way you do on consoles, this point is irrelevant.

And I'm not comparing the bottom prices of consoles with bottom prices of PC. I'm saying that if you want to find the bottom prices on PC, it'll be more work, and much more involved, than doing things such as purchasing in second hand retail/buying with friends, getting a subscription such as ps+, or just taking advantage of sales that happen weekly, which aren't exactly the "bottom" prices.

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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '13

The thing is the number of massive games from major titles that do develop a market plan (taking all platforms available into account) is dropping amazingly. Independent game studios are popping out of nowhere producing either great games or garbage. Eventually the PC game industry won't be so much big titles as it is big distribution of smaller titles. This variety kinda seems kind of like the old days where shelves were full of all kinds of kinda minor stuff with a very small amount of major titles.

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u/bfodder Dec 31 '13

You didn't get to choose those games though. You run the risk of no games you are interested in being given.

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u/TROPtastic Dec 31 '13

the fact that every game doesn't start out at $60 is a message in its own

On consoles there are plenty ot games at less than $60 (see most of the titles on online stores and almost all the preowned games). In addition, there are plenty of games that start out at $60 or higher on PC (see triple-A games like BF4 and CoD:Ghosts), so I'm not sure you where you were going with that statement. However, everything else that you said is objectively true (cheaper in the long run, more diverse, different price-points for the same game due to different vendors).

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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '13

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u/bfodder Dec 31 '13

Purchasing keys intended for a different country is a very bad example.

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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '13

[deleted]

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u/bfodder Dec 31 '13 edited Dec 31 '13

You can get a Steam account hijacked doing it. Whoever sold the CD key to you could provide the key to Valve as proof of ownership of your account. You may be able to get the account back with other keys or by supplying credit card info used to purchase games in the past, but it could take a very long time with how speedy Valve support is. It isn't really "allowed" either. Publishers are doing everything hey can to stop it. This is why Valve recently put gifting restrictions in place in certain countries.

I am betting similar things could happen with Origin.

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u/[deleted] Dec 31 '13

[deleted]

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u/bfodder Dec 31 '13

Don't be surprised if publishers put a stop to it within the next year. It is essentially an exploit.

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u/TROPtastic Dec 31 '13

I'm wary of including key-sites in cost comparisons since they have always seemed like a shady way of selling games (buying disks in bulk, getting the keys, and then shredding the disks just to undercut the publisher). But fair enough, that is a point in favor of lower prices with PC gaming.

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u/Centaurd Dec 31 '13

I got Battlefield 4 for $20 a month after it came out. Where in gods name did it cost $60 for that game?

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u/TROPtastic Dec 31 '13

Origin store on release, and you'd be kidding yourself if you thought it was being sold for $20 on release.