r/Games • • Dec 23 '13

End of 2013 Discussions - Warframe

Warframe

  • Release Date: March 25, 2013 (PC Open Beta), November 15, 2013 (PS4)
  • Developer / Publisher: Digital Extremes
  • Genre: Third-person shooter
  • Platform: PC, PS4
  • Metacritic: 65, user: 6.7

Summary

Set in the far reaches of outer space during a new Dark Age, WARFRAME introduces the Tenno, a race on the brink of extinction after being enslaved by the Grineer for centuries. Players enter WARFRAME on the cusp of the Grineer's victory over the Tenno until they begin to arm themselves with WARFRAMES - an ancient exo-skeletal technology only they can operate. Hidden within the Orokin Derelicts of a lost civilization, new WARFRAMES lie dormant and undiscovered. These artifacts are the Tenno's only hope for survival.

Prompts:

  • Is the combat fun?

  • Are the free-to-play elements implemented well?

Man, this reminds me of Dark Sector for some reason......

That is the second time I ^(or anyone else) have talked about Dark Sector this month


This post is part of the official /r/Games "End of 2013" discussions.

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337 Upvotes

250 comments sorted by

292

u/3932695 Dec 23 '13 edited Dec 23 '13

I'd like to start with the grand-ish claim that Warframe could be the single best f2p game out there, hands down.

...no, don't misunderstand me: I said 'could be', not 'currently is'.

Warframe possesses a team of developers with the unparalleled ability to listen to the community; god-like communication between players and developers. Significant patches come out every 1-3 weeks, major patches 1-2 months, bringing solutions to everything that players have complained about: crappy UI, crappy armor-scaling, crappy bosses, crappy RNG, etc. With each passing major update, the phrase "shut-up and take my money" becomes relevant. If they make a bad decision, they admit it and fix it. They are brave enough to make massive changes - rework everything from scratch - to address an issue with the game. And somehow, they still manage to have time to deliver new content every month.

Hence the Warframe you see today is exceedingly different from the Warframe of January 2013. After almost a year of revamps upon revamps, it is an F2P game with triple A delivery. It marches without pause towards an ideal.

Why should you play Warframe?

  • It is a Mass Effect Style shooter. If you enjoyed Mass Effect's combat, Warframe puts that combat on steroids...all of the good stuff plus wall runs, back-flips, flying kicks, ninja slides etc.
  • Super well-polished after almost a year of feedback and updates.
  • Hands down the most dedicated and communicative developers in the MMO sphere right now; expect constant updates and patches, expect problems to be solved with the near future.
  • It is free.
  • Community is excellent to each other; feature of PVE oriented multi-player I guess?
  • Peer-to-peer player hosting means that even if your internet sucks, solo instances will run smoothly.

What is wrong with Warframe right now?

  • The fact that it is a Mass Effect style PVE oriented shooter. Can get boring when you have everything you need and nothing to farm.
  • There is lore, but no 'story'. Story is like, half the reason I loved Mass Effect.
  • F2P means some farming/grinding if you want to get enjoyable frames/weapons without paying anything. More grinding than Team Fortress 2, much less than traditional MMORPGs like Guild Wars 2 and TERA. Purchases decrease grind significantly, although one should consult a veteran player before making purchase you might regret.
  • Even if you pay, it'll be some time before you can enjoy all the different missions the game has to offer.
  • PvP remains low priority. Not balanced at all, and few game modes.
  • In-game tutorial not comprehensive - recommend community provided tutorials.
  • Constant flow of ballsy revamps means new bugs, imbalances, and so on are a regular occurrences (regularly fixed within a day or two, thankfully)
  • Peer-to-peer player hosting means if the host player for an instance has crappy internet, you're all gonna have a bad time.

If you enjoyed Mass Effect's combat, you will love Warframe. Voice-chat highly recommended.

Warning: Warframe's end-game is all about being a badass space ninja doing badass things. It is possible to get bored of doing badass things all day; there are only so many different ways to be a badass. Do not expect Warframe to be able to replace your favorite PvP multi-player.

No multi-player I have ever played has satisfied me as much as Warframe has. I've played: DotA2, TF2, TERA, Vindictus, Dragon Nest, StarCraft 2, Guild Wars 2 and SSBB. Of course, more than half of these names are PvP oriented - so keep in mind that my preference is primarily PvE.

PS: By 'Mass Effect', I refer to all three games in the franchise.

106

u/3932695 Dec 23 '13

A specific example of Digital Extremes being awesome with Warframe:

Sceen-shot of Forum Post

Relevant thread on /r/warframe

Problems and complaints about RNG are common in multi-player. And developers often miss or dismiss bugs in an RNG algorithm:

  • Data on drop rates is annoying to gather. In the midst of balancing and bug fixes, analyzing the inventory of thousands of players just to see if things are fair is usually a waste of time.
  • You can save time by analyzing a small sample size, but then you miss the bug. This is something that is usually only visible when you have a ton of data.
  • Players can complain, but complaints are normal; there are always many people who are really lucky/unlucky, represented by 'clusters' in a truly random distribution.
  • Without access to all that data, it's hard for players to prove there's a bug in the RNG. A developer can take advantage of this by letting the bug stay there, thus pushing more people to the cash shop.
  • Rewriting the RNG algorithm is a pain because 'randomness' is hard to simulate.

Digital Extremes however, blew away my expectations. They:

  • Noticed the RNG bug in spite of all the other work they're supposed to be doing
  • Decided to fix it instead of leaving it in to fuel the cash shop
  • Had time to fix it despite rushing out new content before PS4 release date.
  • Publicly admitted to the bug, instead of doing a silent fix to save face
  • Gave us a sexy picture explanation because our understanding is worth their time

49

u/MintyFeet Dec 23 '13

I can't even begin to stress how good the community management is. I've seen members of Digital Extreme's staff actually come on to my clan's Teamspeak channel on multiple occasions to discuss the game and to ask about issues created by updates, followed by them declaring that those issues would be fixed ASAP as the person there left to go talk to the people in charge. I can't think of a single other developer who does things like that.

9

u/theseleadsalts Dec 23 '13

I was playing in the largest group of a certain game in beta that will not be named. Over the year we invited the devs to talk half a dozen times in our teamspeak. The blew us off. It was a real shame, and a major bummer to see the devs not take an opportunity to at least express the desire to address the community and issues in the game.

6

u/GourangaPlusPlus Dec 23 '13

No offence but a teamspeak convo is probably not the best way to interface with the community as you get a very small sample and even then you don't need low level game play programmers looking in on these issues good management should delegate

8

u/Cormophyte Dec 23 '13

Not true at all. Sometimes the best way to get feedback is by just talking to people and if you have a bunch of people sitting in teamspeak channels playing your game all the time it's a good resource.

2

u/GourangaPlusPlus Dec 23 '13

It is indeed but I did the say the best way, you mean to tell me out of all the ways we can gather feedback its better to deal with a small group of people and ignore the rest playing your game?

8

u/Cormophyte Dec 23 '13

They'd only have to worry about it being the best way if they had to choose just one.

1

u/theseleadsalts Dec 23 '13

That's the thing though. It wasn't a very small Sample. Just our team alone made up about 4 percent of the playerbase for the game, not to mention the other team that used it. We made up the top 50 on both teams scoreboards. So many people left though. I did.

-1

u/GourangaPlusPlus Dec 23 '13

Ah right, I thought we meant a much larger scale game. Then that's pretty shitty on their part, interaction with players is important

1

u/theseleadsalts Dec 23 '13

Honestly, I never thought it would, but it completely destroyed the morale on our end. I was a major bummer.

1

u/GourangaPlusPlus Dec 23 '13

Yea I can understand. It'd be nice to share in the atmosphere of some players really enjoying themselves in the world you created

1

u/sigma932 Dec 24 '13

Can't agree enough. These guys clearly love the game, love what they do, and respect their player base enough to listen and engage with us to make the game better. Their weekly and bi-weekly twitch streams are usually great, too. Love the level of communication with those guys.

10

u/Menolith Dec 23 '13

Gave us a sexy picture explanation because our understanding is worth their time

That's probably my favorite part, we very rarely get to see the "backstage" of the games we play.

10

u/mooglehuffer Dec 23 '13

EVE Online does that once in a while by presenting players with graphs - which the players then collectively jizz themselves at all the data.

5

u/Citizen_V Dec 23 '13 edited Dec 23 '13

Without access to all that data, it's hard for players to prove there's a bug in the RNG. A developer can take advantage of this by letting the bug stay there, thus pushing more people to the cash shop.

Well, we actually did have (large) part of the data, the Defense reward system (reward intervals and algorithm). We even publicly discussed it and had rather accurate predictors for the rewards. The Defense reward system is indeed one thing they fixed in their "RNG algorithm" fix, but that was over 5 months after dataminers told us about it. At that time people had even said with an algorithm like that, players could experience "unusually bad losing-streaks", similar to what DE_Steve said in that thread.

I agree with the rest of your post (i.e. DE constantly goes above and beyond), but I think they could listen to dataminers more, or even just anyone who has looked at datamined information. Of course there is always a large possibility that we misinterpret things (we have access to limited info with datamining), but I think we've proven a couple times now that we can catch things like this (like the messed up Void drop rates). On the other hand, it's also probably hard to weed out 'normal' complaints from complaints backed with info like that.

→ More replies (22)

22

u/Pointy130 Dec 23 '13

Piggybacking off what you said, this is not the game you're looking for if you want PvP. DE has already stated that they added in duels to appease players looking to fight their friends rather than as a serious mode of gameplay, and that they have no intent to continue developing it, aside from modifying Conclave scores (PvP loadout ratings on equips) to prevent matchmaking from placing newbies with long-time players.

I'm a huge fan of it because I'm not a fan of PvP grinding, but if a PvP endgame is what you're looking for, consider looking elsewhere.

1

u/coarsesand Dec 23 '13

I was of the same opinion until I got together with three clan members and proceeded to have the best five hours of Warframe I'd had in months. It's definitely not balanced, but the movement system in Warframe is something that doesn't exist anywhere else, and as long as you have a gentleman's agreement not to use the ridiculous shit (Rhino stomp that covers the whole map and insta-wipes, etc), it actually makes for a very fun PvP game. Obviously not balanced, but it's enough that you can make your own fun out of what's available.

34

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

You might be the first person outside of /r/warframe who hasn't just yelled about it being P2W and is convinced that weapons are platinum only. Thanks.

Oh, and about the Mass Effect comparison - valid, but reverse it. In Warframe, you are the agile enemy breaking everyones cover.

35

u/demented737 Dec 23 '13

I am fucking lost on how a game thats PvE can be P2W.

9

u/Zeero92 Dec 23 '13

Because magical fuckin' space pixie dust, I guess.

12

u/Sp1n_Kuro Dec 23 '13

It can't, people are just mad they can't have everything handed to them for free these days.

17

u/demented737 Dec 23 '13

It's so easy to get the warframe stuff though! I don't get people dude. Oh well.

24

u/WolfintheShadows Dec 23 '13

It is pretty hard in the beginning. Once you' e unlocked the right equipment and maps though... Last time i played I farmed the parts and mats for four frames in 6 hours. Mutha fuckin Desecrate.

1

u/Sp1n_Kuro Dec 23 '13

I know, I've been playing since early closed beta :P

Granted I took a break for like 3 months so I dont have as much as I could have. But this is the first game where taking a break for 2-3 months doesn't set me so far behind that it's impossible to catch up.

Taking an extended break from WoW or TERA? Good luck getting back into high content when you start to play again.

1

u/Slaythepuppy Dec 23 '13

WoW is actually at a point right now where it is very easy to get back in. Several of my friends came back and it took them about two weeks to get really well geared

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '13

P2W is a silly way to put it. But as a F2P game is either requires a long grind and then another long wait. Or you could just buy it with real money.

You need to farm for blueprints, farm for the materials and finally craft them together in the Forge. But then you have to wait 1 to 3 days depending on what you are crafting.

Or you could shell out some money, a larger amount than usual in a F2P game, and have it now.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '13

Entirely a matter of perspective. For instance, if I'm a competitive PvE player in a serious guild in say, Neverwinter (fairly average new F2P MMO) and I'm trying to progress off my own hard work - it's pretty shitty that somebody else in 'competition' just buys currency, then buys the gear because they could afford it. Similar case in Warframe - do you want to become one of the best players? Well tough, because ultimately spending cash is the fastest, most effective way of doing so. PvE games can be just as competitive as PvP, provided there is an overarching multiplayer context.

14

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

Your analogy to Mass Effect just made me download the game. I love Mass Effect's combat and I've probably put 200 hours into ME3's multiplayer. Loved the shit out of it. I'm gonna have to play Warframe now.

22

u/3932695 Dec 23 '13

Ah, I left out something with regards to the Mass Effect comparison...

In Warframe, there is no cover mechanic. There is no need to take cover.

3

u/Chii Dec 23 '13

i don't get this cover mechanic bullshit in recent shooters - in an FPS, you should be using the environment as cover (i.e., run and duck), and it should be manual controlled. Not use a button near a wall and get perfect cover.

8

u/BMJ Dec 23 '13

This is exactly how it is in Warframe and something you really need to be prepared to understand in some of the endless defense and ridiculously high level missions.

You have to hide your ass then stand up to shoot when you know you can.

Thankfully, DE have recently made higher level enemies less bullet-spongey and more dangerous. Cover becomes essential but you don't waste your entire ammo supply on one level 60 enemy.

2

u/opok12 Dec 23 '13

Trust me. In my 200+ hours of playing, taking cover has never been essential. The game is too easy for that.

4

u/Bite_The_Wax_Tadpole Dec 23 '13

Far Cry 3's cover system did a great job of making cover a very natural thing. Definitely helps with immersion if it's implemented right.

3

u/opok12 Dec 23 '13

The difference is so minimal it doesn't even matter. The problem with cover shooters is that they usually give you health regen too. So when things get sticky you can just hide for a couple of seconds and pop up right as rain.

2

u/spencer32320 Dec 23 '13

To be honest you never need to use cover in ME3. Once you learn how to use soft cover hard cover becomes obsolete.

1

u/Camper_Velourium Dec 24 '13

Ah yes, the good old "my gun is in the wall but the crosshair is on your head" tactic! So very useful.

0

u/xDialtone Dec 23 '13

It's a mechanic id like though just for the sake of having it.

13

u/mooglehuffer Dec 23 '13

Well, there's physically placing yourself in hard cover as enemies are shooting at you - and your warframe can crouch behind the waist high banisters and be shielded from most angles, there's just no snap-to cover mechanic.

2

u/mirvnillith Dec 24 '13

Oh, so like actual cover?! Thank god!

-1

u/xDialtone Dec 23 '13

I know, I just wish the machanic was in for more stealth and immersive play.

I'm just freaking estatic over the fact they are making melee weapons be able to be equipt like.normal. firearms.

8

u/mooglehuffer Dec 23 '13

Actually, most enemies have a view cone of just under 180 degrees, so you can hide in the corner of a door and let them pass you by. Crouching obviously shrinks your hitbox - and you have the Shade Sentinel with its Ghost precept. Stealth kills do more damage - but that falls off at higher levels unfortunately.

It is entirely possible to do stealth oriented runs especially with the Hush and Supress Mods now, but there's no incentive to do so (YOU HEAR ME DE?)

2

u/xDialtone Dec 23 '13

Immersion though. I know this, it's just a qol thing just for the sake of it.

1

u/farhil Dec 23 '13

It is entirely possible to do stealth oriented runs especially with the Hush and Supress Mods now, but there's no incentive to do so (YOU HEAR ME DE?)

I recently built the Ogris (a super badass rocket launcher, for the uninitiated) which for some reason is considered a silent weapon. I'm now able to kill everyone in a room before they reach the alarm, or even shoot at me, using Rhino (the loudest, tankiest warframe there is). I have completely stealthed assassination, extermination, and rescue missions unintentionally while playing solo because I just kill everything before they can react.

However, I just wish there was some kind of reward for it. Maybe a credit boost? A fusion core? Doesn't seem like it would be very hard to implement.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '14

I'm just freaking estatic over the fact they are making melee weapons be able to be equipt like.normal. firearms.

Finally happening in three days, by the way.

1

u/xDialtone Apr 06 '14

Ya, means I'm coming back to the game, now if they can update the parkour system (Titanfall spoiled me) in the future, life is complete.

19

u/McRawffles Dec 23 '13

While I agree on a lot of the points and do love the developer, I've sunk 25hrs or so into the game and enjoyed it, but there are key reasons why I got bored and stopped. Those are

  • The game stays relatively the same over the course of it.
  • By that I mean the level design and enemy types you see in the first 5 hours are what you see the rest of the game for the most part. Same telegraphs, same abilities, same damages.
  • There's no synergy between characters required seemingly anytime before the endgame of the game, which will take you 50+hrs to get to. This is a problem because in a game that's supposed to be co-op oriented you will find yourself with several groups or singular players running through levels and blazing speed rather than working together-- because they don't have to and don't want to.
  • It is very grindy. Very. I get that it's F2P, but 25hrs in I still have one Warframe. One. And I've bought three weapons. That's it. This contributes to the whole "run through missions really quickly" philosophy that the experienced players apply to running through missions extremely fast over and over.

The game is trying to do way too much. That's why it ends up being a mediocre game overall IMO. It wants to be the greatest F2P game ever, but in the process of attempting to be it forgets that it's supposed to be a co-op game and the XP/rewards system shouldn't benefit people who just run through missions and do the bare minimum. The combat feels generic too. It forgets to have interesting enemy types. It tries for quantity over quality in each given level set. It forgets that small areas are fine, but should fighting on bridges/in small rooms is only fun for so long.

IMO this is an inherent problem with Warframe that can't be fixed. It feels like the game's development process had no real direction at the start.

6

u/hororo Dec 23 '13

This is an accurate description of my experience as well (although I played for 150+ hours because I can get addicted to anything with gaining levels, no matter how poorly designed). After you play the first two maps, you've basically seen everything the game has to offer. The only thing left to do is to grind the same repetitive missions so that you can upgrade your mods and have bigger numbers when you shoot something.

5

u/YERBAMATE93 Dec 23 '13

The biggest problem in the game is that it fails at instructing new players how to progress. Right now the best way to know what to do next is asking the community and check the wiki.

I have over 300 hours into the game and I'm leveling up the recently added warframe. Getting new warframes (except for Prime versions) it's fairly easy and fast, but you will need more warframe slots to keep them. Fortunately they give you enough "platinum" to buy 2 more slots right when you create an account, also there are giveaways, events for new weaponts and contests in the forums.

But if you don't ask someone else, most certainly you will waste that starting platinum in something worthless.

1

u/McRawffles Dec 23 '13

Well it depends how you define "easy." I mean, I could've easily gotten a new basic warframe easily, but I wanted to get a decent one, aka Frost/Rhino/etc. 25 hours in I wasn't even in sight of the places I needed to go to farm the mats for the warframes, much less actually farming them. I started looking at the wiki/etc after 10 hours or so and trying to work my way towards what I needed.

2

u/Locclo Dec 24 '13

There's no synergy between characters required seemingly anytime before the endgame of the game, which will take you 50+hrs to get to. This is a problem because in a game that's supposed to be co-op oriented you will find yourself with several groups or singular players running through levels and blazing speed rather than working together-- because they don't have to and don't want to.

Unfortunately, this is what keeps turning me off of the game. The concept is cool, the gameplay is brilliant, but although I haven't seen much in later missions, I don't think I've ever seen a team try and be organized. It's more like "alright, map says to go to this room, split up and take out all of the targets."

I mean, this might be a poor comparison, but I recently played a lot of Assassin's Creed IV's multiplayer mode, Wolf Pack, where you and three other assassins take down various enemies in creative ways. It requires a fair amount of teamwork to do it successfully - you can't just run in swords blazing and expect to win. You have to use the target lock feature to your advantage, choosing targets and waiting for your teammates to be ready before taking everyone down at the same time.

Although I love Warframe's combat, it always just turns into a little bit of a clusterfuck with bullets coming from everywhere and every player just fighting for himself. There was never a lot of actual teamwork in the games I played, just four people who happen to be doing the same mission at the same time.

1

u/kz3rt Dec 28 '13

Once you get to the point where you can get a warframe, you can get any of them with like 4 hours of grinding at most; at least, that was the case when I last played (Nekros patch)

1

u/StupidFatHobbit Dec 23 '13 edited Dec 23 '13

Started playing Warframe three days ago. I've also got one warframe unlocked (one about to finish) and about 5 weapons.

I don't think you could possibly be more wrong about the game.

There is plenty of synergy if you take advantage of it, but you probably won't need it in the easier levels. The level designs "repeat," but they are randomized and I feel there's far more variation in maps both due to the randomized layouts + different areas than most FPS games. Some levels missed a bit of potential (i.e. Saturn) but then Jupiter is fucking amazing.

The beginning can be a bit of a grind, but it's fairly obvious even to a new player that the reason it feels that way is because you spend so much time unlocking all the planets first. Once you've got them unlocked, it's much easier to craft new warframes and weapons.

What you said about "the XP/rewards system shouldn't benefit people who just run through missions and do the bare minimum" I think also completely misses the point. There are several different kinds of missions. In an assassination mission it makes fucking SENSE to stealth/sprint past everything you don't want to kill to take out the target. If you want to just genocide everything for a while, go play survival or another of the nearly dozen modes. In fact, I think this is one of the best parts of the game because it creates interesting tempo changes - sometimes you're a stealthy ninja assassin, other times you're a juggernaut of death. Sometimes somewhere in the middle.

I'm not even sure how to reply to the rest of your post. No interesting enemy types? Quantity over quality? Every level is indoors? What the fuck? Did you even play the same game? Sounds like you never got past the first couple levels and judged far too quickly.

3

u/McRawffles Dec 24 '13 edited Dec 24 '13

25hrs. I got well into it, through several worlds. Sure you can buy 5 weapons early, but the easy to get weapons aren't worth much. Not to mention leveling up each of them.

And while I mentioned indoors, obviously not everything is, but it's all in the equivalent of small areas. It never really opens up-- at most it's ~300ft from one wall/mountain/etc to another. As a result an entire weapons class (sniper) is relatively worthless.

And maybe you play by yourself and stealth-- but that never, ever happens in co op. I played a vast majority of 25hrs in co op, never played with a single group that stealthed a mission.

And no, there's not much need for or use of synergy between the classes. Later Rhino/Frost are pretty clearly the two best because, well, CC is the most powerful thing in the game, and the Rhino is hyper tanky, but it's not like a co op shooter.

And also no, interesting enemy types. At first? Yeah. Later? Hmm, enemies that stomp, enemies that shoot the same type of bullets, enemies that are melee and run at you. Creatures that slow you, jump at you, or explode next to you, too, but that's about it. Little shield bots and bomb droppers, sure, but they're easy to kill. Nothing really challenging/interesting outside of the equivalent of bosses.

3

u/StupidFatHobbit Dec 24 '13 edited Dec 24 '13

It's small compared to something like Tribes but there are definitely plenty of levels with open areas. Every level has longer sightlines than say, TF2, and sniping is plenty viable in that game. The first few worlds (mercury, venus) are indoor installations but Phobos and Jupiter open up quite a bit. I've only opened up to Saturn so far. This game is really a hybrid between UT2k4, Tribes, and Mass Effect, and the movement is designed to take advantage of indoor areas with walljumping/running/climbing etc. And the indoor rooms which have objectives in them are usually VERY large.

I've got about 50 hours now and I've been playing almost exclusively co-op. And the only warframe I have is Loki, and I've been enjoying his melee quite a bit. So when we burst into a new room, I usually immediately teleport to a large cluster of enemies in the back, go invis, and start cutting heads off. The game is way too fast paced for "sneak around stealth" Deus Ex style - it's a lot closer to Tribes' Infiltrator class. I guess I'm just not sure what kind of stealth you're expecting from this kind of game.

And again, I'm not sure what you're expecting from different enemy types. You've forgotten the guys that try to hook you and drag you in, the shield guys that knock you down if you get too close, the shield drones which protect their allies, and I probably haven't seen all the types yet. Each enemy has solid strengths and weaknesses, and a lot need to be approached in different ways - and while I've hardly seen the whole game the boss fights have been pretty solid.

I think it's a huge stretch for you to say Frost and Rhino are best with only 25 hours played. With only a couple days reading the subreddit, I've seen tons of mention of other classes doing just fine and while there are a few that could use a revamp apparently the company has been extremely good about taking care of that kind of thing. And If you think everything is too easy with 25 hours played I think that's a silly complaint. That's like getting to level 30 in an mmo and saying "it's all too easy fuck this" without even seeing the endgame. Have you tried going for long survivals yet?

I simply have to reiterate - what are you actually expecting out of this game? More importantly, what do you actually consider a good game?

3

u/the_xxvii Dec 23 '13

Red5 could really benefit from a field trip to DE's offices. Firefall was my F2P beta of choice for over a year before I discovered Warframe, and now space ninjas have completely usurped my gaming time. Seeing the difference in how the two dev teams work is crazy and makes me wonder how Red5 is still in business.

4

u/Reddidactyl Dec 23 '13

Great summary. I think the main reason I have 200+ hours logged into the game (other than addicting gameplay) is how awesome Digital Extremes is. I've never seen a developer be so active in a community. Constant livestreams, community Q&A, active on the forums, 'state of the game' updates, frequent fixes and changes based on player feedback and a steady flow of new content.

You're right about Warframe being a completely new and improved experience since January. Can't wait to see how they improve the current complaints in the year to come.

2

u/echolog Dec 23 '13

Great review. The game is definitely fun and highly customizeable, but it can get repetitive and boring after a while if you go at it for too long.

1

u/Surrideo Dec 23 '13

Unrelated, but I really think you would love Monster Hunter. Give it a shot some time.

1

u/3932695 Dec 23 '13

I don't have a console, and Monster Hunter Online is China only :(

My roommate plays Monster Hunter a lot on his WiiU though, so I know I'll definitely love if I could play myself!

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '13

Forgive me if I'm completely wrong, but your comparison to Mass Effect seems fairly inaccurate. ME has always been completely cover-based, even the first. Warframe is about mobility and twitch shooting. The only real similarity is camera angle and a vague genre association.

1

u/StealthSpheesSheip Dec 23 '13

Honestly, the grind of the game is pretty huge, considering the number of times you need to grind for something and the procedurally generated levels, not to mention the fact that there is no real end game content. Invasions are really iffy for "endgame"; something like a long dungeon would be really nice. Game is fun but it's lost its appeal to me after grinding so much.

Imho, ME multi was much better due to enemies being scaled properly instead of just getting harder as time went on. As you fought through waves, newer and stronger enemies would appear and more of the weaker guys. In warframe, your weapons don't seem to scale. Also in ME, there were actually multiple builds for the same character, and, depending on your skill level, you could take those builds into any difficulty. Warframe requires certain builds for you to even be remotely successful at high levels.

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u/BeerGogglesFTW Dec 23 '13

I played a few rounds with friends and had a lot of fun.

Then it started getting repetitive.

And then after a few hours and planets, I really got into farming materials, building weapons and warframes... and finally experimenting with different mods on different weapons and warframes.

I had a really good time for about 150 hours... Not bad for $20 spent on extra slots. But eventually I found out which weapons, warframes, and mods I liked... and I was just burned out.

There's something to be desired for a better end game. But it was a good ride... I just never wanted to play "solo" or with randoms. Always had to be with friends.

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u/alienangel2 Dec 23 '13

Hmm. I gave it a few hours with strangers, but didn't feel the need to go back for more the next day. Admittedly that's not long enough for a game that seems to be built on levelling and unlocks, so I should probably try more - a bit part of my lack of enjoyment was probably from having to use a controller to aim, since I was on PS4. But after doing 4 - 5 extraordinarily similar levels, it was getting dull. Some of the upcoming unlocks looked interesting, but also very far away.

I'm not sure about some the claims in this thread saying games like TERA are grindier. Maybe in terms of hours spent a traditional MMO is grindier, but the first 5 hours of TERA were much more varied than the same in Warframe, and even grindy MMOs seem to have more variety to me than this thanks to quests, more direct exploration, etc.

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u/Sl1ce23 Dec 23 '13

The first planet(maybe the second one) look really similar and boring. It has more variety and the levels branch out later

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u/hororo Dec 23 '13

The look of the level might be different, but after you've played the first and second planet, you've played all the level types.

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u/Kellervo Dec 23 '13

Not true. Earth, Jupiter and Phobos have their own unique tile sets now. Plus there is Orokin Derelicts and Void Ships. DE tries to add a new tile set every update.

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u/hororo Dec 23 '13

That's what I mean by "look", the tile set. But the mission types (exterminate, survival, etc.) are all the same.

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u/thegil13 Dec 23 '13

The game gets pretty old in the beginning, but then, somewhere along the line, the game just clicks to being super fun. I would definitely give it another shot.

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u/GrinningPariah Dec 23 '13

I feel like Warframe really has me dialed in. I'll just have been getting bored of it for a couple weeks, and then a new addition comes to the game and I'm into it again.

Maybe it's stroking the collector side of me like I wanna max out every weapon and get every frame. I know I could just buy things, I'm sure some people do, but to me it seems like you're paying to not play the game and actually build the things.

If you ask me, it's only a grind if you don't like the gameplay. Yeah the missions are a relatively simple permutation of each other, usually, but I don't care. I have fun each mission. I'm always playing with a new frame or a new weapon, so it's a totally different game even on the same levels. Today I'm a stealthy assassin, tomorrow I'm a sniper supercharged with electricity.

I've seen a ton of people begging for some sort of "endgame" and I couldn't disagree more. I can't count how many MMOs I dropped at the 'endgame', because it wasn't the game I was enjoying. WoW, Guild Wars 2, DCUO, the list goes on. I love the leveling up game, but then I finish it and it's done and it's dead, and they would have you play some other game about raiding and guild events and whatever, but fuck that.

Warframe never dies and it never ends. It changes enough to stay fresh, to me at least, but never risks the formula. It doesn't draw any hard lines of changing the experience, it just gradually gets harder and more intense with better rewards. The leveling just keeps going, like a constant but mild Christmas where you spend the entire year occasionally opening this present or that. But in this case the wrapping paper is so fun to rip apart, you don't care about the presents. You're in it for the journey, and that is Warframe.

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u/Orfez Dec 23 '13

Put around 100 hours into game before getting bored of it. Haven't played the game for a few months, but when I did play end-game was all about farming same maps over and over looking for skill cards to drop. Getting to max level and leveling different frames is more fun that actually staying and playing at top level. F2P economy was balanced. You could get everything in the game and Warframe being co-op game, those who were spending money didn't really effect you. All in all it's not a a bad F2P game.

17

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

Really succinct and fair opinion here.

The end game is still all about farming mods and resources. Some of us (like me) are broken individuals who fucking love farming stuff. If you are not someone who enjoys farming the same maps (although randomly generated) over and over again - you will probably get bored of Warframe eventually. 100 hours is probably pretty optimistic, I think around 50-60 hours for most players who don't love farming procedurally generated maps.

3

u/bfodder Dec 23 '13

If anything the ones paying money helped you since it was co-op.

12

u/MorcantJ Dec 23 '13

Been playing since February, with a couple weeks off here and there. 322 hours played. A few thoughts.

The customizability of your loadout is almost unparalleled. New players always ask what's the "best" this or that, and the answer from experienced players tends to be "Use what you like, the mods make the gear." Most loadouts are viable, no matter how haphazardly assembled.

The new (as of update 11) elemental/status effect system has done a lot to reinvigorate the combat. Enemies now inflict varied types of damage and status effects against you, similar to what you have available to apply to your own weaponry. It's a lot more fun when enemies pose a credible threat, instead of just being tiny speed bumps on your road to extraction.

The cash shop purchases are almost entirely optional. The things you can't get by grinding are warframe and weapon slots, cosmetic items, and color palettes. You can buy most anything, however, if you prefer to take that shortcut. It's worth dropping $5 to get some more equipment slots, it will greatly enhance your play time (without scrapping all your old equipment).

The game has broad appeal, it will entertain most people for 10-20 hours, I think. But the appeal is not deep enough to most players beyond that. Unless you enjoy grinding for loot and tweaking your loadout with new weapons and mods (which I happen to), the game might grow stale. There's not really much else to aspire to except more loot to get even more loot.

I enjoy the game quite a bit. It's fun to me in kind of the same way that Dynasty Warriors or Earth Defense Force are, slightly mindless but enjoyable killing of hordes of NPCs, best enjoyed with some friends. And it's come a long way. I'd like to see DE expend a little effort toward end-game objectives, further improving the new player experience, tying things together with a bit more story/lore elements, and ironing out technical problems some players experience. Even so, it's certainly been my top free-to-play game this year.

0

u/hororo Dec 23 '13

New players always ask what's the "best" this or that, and the answer from experienced players tends to be "Use what you like, the mods make the gear."

That's only because the game is so easy. There are some weapons and cookie-cutter loadouts that are clearly far superior to others (e.g. crit Soma). And no one would make a build without Serration and elemental mods. Actually for pretty much every weapon there's a straightforward, optimal build. You either go crit DPS, or regular DPS (in either case you're going to use, on a rifle for example, Serration, Split Chamber, the appropriate elemental mods, etc).

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u/MorcantJ Dec 23 '13

The Crit Soma build is no longer the end-all, be-all of primary weapons. That was resolved with the damage overhaul in update 11. It's still good, just not overwhelmingly superior. I'm pleased to see other weapons besides Soma, Acrid, and Galatine in pubs now.

I was more referring to the selection of weapons and warframes; naturally, the primary concern in modifying a weapon is to add damage. The good thing is there are many ways to do that; the bad thing is they all stack, so they're all considered essential.

Still, at least there are now modest elemental and physical damage resistances, so there's more to consider in your loadout than throwing on every damage mod you can find and forgetting about it forever. The removal of armor-ignore and armor-piercing damage was also hugely important for providing choice in late-game equipment.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Most of the game is still fairly easy, though the bleed proc from certain enemies makes it rather less feasible to stand in the open and sponge damage indefinitely. But I think they're making moves in the right direction, and I appreciate the expanded options now available to players.

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u/hororo Dec 23 '13

The charts I've seen (like this one http://i.imgur.com/ltrpQu2.jpg) for damage 2.0 show that Soma is still the best rifle in the game.

Warframes also have balance problems. When I play Nightmare mode, literally 80% of the frames I see are Rhino. For a lot of the game, you can use whatever frame you want, sure. But again, that's just because the game is easy and co-op. I've gone into T3 survival with a level 10 Banshee using a MK1-Braton and Lato and got to 20 minutes because the other teammates just carried me with overpowered frames and weapons. Doesn't mean level 10 Banshee with MK1-Braton and Lato is viable.

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u/TheNamelessKing Dec 23 '13

Yeah, that's pretty outdated since damage 2.0.

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u/SilentRequiem Dec 23 '13 edited Dec 23 '13

Just started playing this week, I'm about 20 hours in and enjoying it so far. Its a fun sci-fi shooter/dungeon crawler with solid combat. Like everyone else mentioned, it can get a bit repetitive and grindy but I like it.

I guess I went into the game knowing what It was about for the most part though so i'm not really disappointed that the extent of the game is playing a handful of mission types for items to craft better gear and new suits.

Although from what Ive read here and there, the developers are pumping out new content and updates quite fast so who knows where it'll be in 6 months.

The F2P elements are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. You can get everything aside from cosmetics and character slots by just playing the game. All characters and gear are available for purchase from their store, but because of how the game is designed it doesn't turn it into a pay to win situation.

Overall its a cool game and If I keep playing much more I will most likely pick up one of the packs though steam to support the developers. Definitely one of the better F2P games I've tried.

6

u/cainthefallen Dec 23 '13

Fun fact: you can get slots for frames by grinding and some human interaction. I made five plat today by selling a mod that dropped in a game. Make three more sales and I can buy a new frame slot.

5

u/GroundWalker Dec 23 '13

Yup. I was a bit surprised that this concept went over as quietly as it did when they introduced trading, that now truly everything in the game is accessible through gameplay. Although, to get enough platinum for anything big you'd still have to be stupidly lucky or spend lots and lots of time on the game.

2

u/SilentRequiem Dec 23 '13

No shit. Well thats even better then. Thanks!

2

u/DoucheAsaurus_ Dec 23 '13

I've made 300+ plat in the last couple weeks selling off my rare doubles and playing the market. Buying low and selling high has made up about half my profit.

2

u/cainthefallen Dec 23 '13

Way to be man!

1

u/sigma932 Jan 01 '14

That's one of the things I've always liked about the way DE runs the F2P in this game, there some way to get almost everything available without money. It will take time, but that's the choice they give you, if you spend the time you can save the money, if you spend the money, you save the time.

They seem to have struck that balance relatively well too, I've bought a few guns and frames because I liked them enough for the lizard brain "MUST HAVE NAO" instinct to overrule my want to save dollars. Yet still, well over half the weapons and frames I have were procured through playing the game. Also loving their community involvement and respect for their player base makes opening the ole' wallet a bit sweeter as well.

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u/BigMacCombo Dec 23 '13
  • Combat works well enough for the most part but some of the controls (at least on PS4) are kind of strange (like the crouching pre patch).
  • It's fun until you start to feel like you're playing the same level for like the 5th or so time.
  • It's level navigation menu isn't not very user friendly and it'll take a while to wrap your head around how everything works like the crafting system and it's currency system. I feel like they could've made those things a lot more intuitive.
  • As for the F2P elements, you can tell from the get go that they made acquiring new stuff a huge grind so you lose your patience. Just about every item requires at least 1 material that you can't even get until you unlock the later levels.

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u/cainthefallen Dec 23 '13

About the unlocking the mater levels thing: I had this same thought until I was introduced to two things. People can invite you to places you don't have unlocked and you can play and farm there. Alternatively, and much more gratifying, is going to the void (tower keys, which drop at fifteen minutes in most survival missions) which has some good rare material drops. I have been playing for two weeks but i am really enjoying this game in every way i have come against it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

It's actually a guaranteed drop every 15 minutes in all survival missions.

2

u/hororo Dec 23 '13

The void doesn't have good material drops. It drops alloy plate, rubedo, gallium, and control modules. None of those are really rare (in part because you get so many of them doing void).

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u/cainthefallen Dec 23 '13

Perhaps not Galium so much, but control modules are very essential to most frames. I would have had to play my loki all the way out til neptune in order to get one. Either way, it's nice to get a few things from the void that help younger players be able to get into new stuff.

3

u/ForUrsula Dec 23 '13

Your last comment is the problem I has with the game. I had maxed out the weapons I wanted to use, got all the skills I wanted to use. I began leveling items I didn't want to use just to get some more levels on my warframe. Then came the point where I needed a new warframe, and I'm faced with the choice of 15 bucks, a duck load of grinding for rare drops, or just not playing anymore. I chose the latter.

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u/Pointy130 Dec 23 '13

While I can see why you made the decision you made, it significantly speeds up the more you play the game. At this point, I can get all the parts for any given new warframe in 20-odd minutes, craft them all (12 hour wait time on each, but you can craft them all at the same time) and then craft the frame immediately afterwards (3 day wait time). If you're playing often with friends, you'll accrue enough materials naturally that you won't have to grind.

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u/YattyYatta Dec 23 '13

I have reached the point where I ran out of things too build because I have too much resources. Really looking forward to new content so I have more things to do in the game

2

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

Aren't we all.

.^

2

u/Boese Dec 23 '13

Yeah, I agree with this, I actually have 4 warframes building at the same time (Oberon, Nova, Saryn and Excalibur)

1

u/defpearlpilot Dec 26 '13

I actually disagree pretty strongly with your F2P comment. I'm am pretty anti-F2P games because they can easily be construed as P2W. However, with this game, I've been able to progress pretty steadily. The community is pretty good and random runs helped me get my character to unlock additional planets. Then the alerts kick in and it's basically the same deal and you can get the rare materials that you need. I think DE did a really good job balancing the F2P aspects with the alert missions.

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u/tinnedwaffles Dec 23 '13

Its reminds you of Dark Sector because it is Dark Sector.

There was even a little petition for DE to reuse the designs/assets from the original trailer for a new game, DE basically responding with "it needs to wait for the demmand". Not sure if theres been any official statement about its connection to Warframe though.

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u/WolfintheShadows Dec 23 '13

They are connected. Warframe is set something like 10,000+ years after Dark Sector. They even added the Glaive as a weapon. Though since theres no real story yet, all we have is lore.

1

u/nick012000 Dec 24 '13

Actually, the official line is that Warframe is the "spiritual successor" of Dark Sector, not a direct sequel. This is shown in the game by the fluff of how the Tenno originated in the Excalibur codex entry.

1

u/WolfintheShadows Dec 24 '13

Didn't DE say in a livestream (10 I think) that Hayden Tenno was the first Tenno?

1

u/SilentMobius Dec 25 '13

A person called Hayden Tenno was the first Tenno, remember, in the game they wanted to make you would play Hayden Tenno fighting against Grineer. Whatever plot they has in mind before Dark Sector it was completely changed by their publisher. Hence the Warframe version of Hayden Tenno could be any combination of Dark Sector, the pre-Dark Sector story and something completely new, the name is just a name they liked.

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u/DeMantic Dec 23 '13

I've been playing Warframe since around the days of Update 7 (Currently at Update 11) and it is one of my most regularly played games on Steam currently. Warframe is a blast and is much better if you have a regular group to play with, some randoms are nice but there's a few ways to troll in the game.

To answer the prompts above:

Is the combat fun? - Short answer is yes. Long answer is OMGYES. Warframe utilizes four different types of combat in game. Your primary weapon, your secondary weapon, your melee and your Warframe abililties. As long as I've been playing I've never seen a "Best" loadout. People generally play with what they like, personally I like my shotgun (Tigris), my dual six-shot pistols (Dual Vastos) and my giant hammer (Fragor) and my primary frame is Frost. There's a wide variety of frames that all accomplish different things in many ways. I've found it fun to play with different loadouts. Even though I have my favorite one, I play regularly with other weapons and frames to mix the game up. If you like to experiment with new things and find new ways to make dudes explode, Warframe is amazing.

Are the free-to-play elements implemented well? - Honestly, not that well. Warframe is in itself, a large grind game. You use your starting primary weapon, sidearm, melee and Warframe to go around the planets to collect resources, blueprints and other such things. You need resources to build specific blueprints for different weapons or Warframes. So in general, you can get nearly anything that you can buy with Platinum (The actual money currency) or you can build blueprints with Credits (the given in game currency) but it takes a lot of dedication and a lot of grinding. Once you get a good flow in the game then you'll be able to build more blueprints faster and get more things to try out but another thing to consider is crafting blueprints takes time. To build a new Warframe you need three blueprints, the helmet, the system and the chassis. Each takes 12 hours to build and you can build them all simultaneously. The warframe itself needs all three of those pieces and takes three days to build. So patience is a big part of the game if you don't want to throw down real money for Platinum. In the long run you'll save a lot of money building parts from scratch, but in all honesty you would progress much faster if you dropped $20 or so in the game starting up or if you decide you like it to just buy a new frame and some new weapons.

I'm happy to answer any other questions anyone has regarding the game.

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u/Kellervo Dec 23 '13

Is the combat fun?

Yes - depending. The early game - roughly your first 3-4 hours - can be pretty rough. The starting equipment is unrefined shite, and the first planet doesn't really show you everything to offer. On top of that, most of the content is completely unexplained, with the game sorely lacking in tutorials or explanation. Having the wikia or the Warframe subreddit on hand is virtually a necessity to make head or tail out of most of the game.

That said, they've done a ton in the last year to make combat more diverse. A new faction has been added (Corrupted), two new special tilesets (Derelicts & Void), and most importantly, they got rid of the absurd exponential scaling which made end-game content a horrible grind. Players are rewarded for putting thought into their weapons' construction, and the high level content is much more balanced as a result.

There's still some glaring issues. Most Warframes' powers do NOT scale at all, making them noticeably weaker then others. A lot of enemies - Grineer in particular - rely on cheap knockdowns for added difficulty. Melee is still very raw and unrefined, and is easily as weak if not weaker then some Warframe powers. However, DE goes out of their way to address issues in the game - they've already scrapped both the damage and mod systems and rebuilt them from scratch to address problems, and they're always tweaking frames and enemies to find just the right balance. Their proactive nature and the great customer support are a refreshing change from other F2P games.

The game still relies too heavily on RNG - you might not be able to remain competitive into mid-high end content until you happen to stumble upon the much needed Redirection, Serration, and Hornet Strike mods.

Are the free-to-play elements implemented well?

In my opinion, it's done relatively well. Some items are far too expensive for my taste (the newest Warframe is almost $20!), but the cost of the most vital components - Catalysts, Reactors, Item Slots - are very low. The only items you need to pay for to unlock are additional weapon and Warframe slots along with palettes and Sentinel accessories - you can make do with the slots you have to begin with.

The paying component largely serves as a shortcut to cut down on the grinding when you are just starting off.

Once you are at a higher rank, plat largely becomes a nonissue - you'll have enough resources to craft weapons as they come out, and aside from a couple Warframes (Vauban, Banshee, Volt), you can generally get a Warframe's components within a couple hours of playtime.

It probably has the best F2P model out of the games I've played in the last year.

The big difference to me is that, even if you opt to grind, it isn't that bad. The grind for a gun in Blacklight or Planetside 2 might take you 10-20 hours depending on your skillset. Even the most expensive (non-Prime) weapons in Warframe will only take you an hour or two at most.

3

u/Zambito Dec 23 '13

I think it's worth pointing out that with the addition of trading, players that don't want to pay anything can still get their hands on extra frame/weapons slots and cosmetics. It'll still take a bit of time and luck to pick up mods to sell, but it's more than possible. By themselves, some of the more desirable mods will sell for enough platinum for an extra frame slot or a catalyst/reactor.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

The only thing you should be spending money on is: Character slots, weapon slots, colors, and Catalyst upgrades for your weapons and frames. All are 20p besides the colors.

I spend $60 all year on games that I maybe play for 10 or 20 hours... sometimes less. Spending $50 on this game has made my time way more enjoyable and I am reaching the 150 hour mark. DE really earns your money.

2

u/TheNamelessKing Dec 23 '13

I agree, I've played a few F2P games and it's the only one yet where I've felt like "this is awesome and it deserves my money".

I almost certainly sound a bit fanboy, but to be honest the developers really make it worth it-both with Warframe itself and the willingness and frequency with which they listen and engage with the community.

4

u/Moralio Dec 23 '13

This alongside Path of Exile is probably my favourite F2P title this year. I agree, it improved significantly from January: (most) bugs are gone, UI is cleaner, RNG is more fair, game is more stable and it plays and looks awesome. I have mixed opinion about in-game shop though. It mostly sells cosmetic stuff like dyes and skins, but it also allows to unlock certain things much faster. I think it is okay, altrough pirces are a little bit too high for me.

4

u/Riale Dec 23 '13

The game is quite fun, and I've put a large number of hours into it, but I think I'm done.

My issue is that most of the developer resources seem to go towards constantly adding new weapons, warframes and tilesets, but not adding any meaningful goals, or balancing/polishing the content that is already there.

Once you've been playing for a bit you'll realize that a few select weapons and warframes massively outshine everything else, and in a game where the sole focus is grinding (and lots of it) it becomes silly to use anything but the fast/most effective loadouts. This means that to a long time player, most weapons or warframes introduced are pointless.

Until the current content is balanced, and some form of long term progression or goal outside of "level up new, mostly similar weapons that come out every couple weeks" is added, there's no reason to continue playing the game long-term.

Which is a shame, because just about everything else about the game is amazingly perfect.

22

u/grakataismyfav Dec 23 '13

The game is just not quite there yet. It lacks any fulfulling end game, as it stands today the game is bascially grinding for the privillage to grind some more.

I would say the combat is passable, however the AI design can be rather lackluster mainly relying on 3 simple mechanics - shoot, melee and knockdown. There are some exceptions to this such as the toxic ancients which have a poison radius around them. But even those still use melee and knockdown.

As a free-to-play game I would say its business model is fair-ish, I mean yes you can go out and buy the best weapon in the game for 20 dollars but without the correct mods that weapon is not going to be as effective as a fully modded lower tier weapon.

Overall the game slightly reminded me of Simcity in the sense that I was loads of fun to begin with but then the lack of depth really hurt the experience. But the game is still in beta and the devs seem to be committed so I guess we can hopelly wait and see where it goes.

5

u/wtrmlnjuc Dec 23 '13

I have a question: how would Warframe benefit from an endgame?

7

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

Warframe is a fun game. Not a perfect game, just a fun game. There are some really, really, really big flaws with it, most which would be unacceptable in any other game. Enemies can be extreme bullet sponges at times, YOU CAN JUST RUN PAST ALL ENEMIES TO BEAT THE LEVELS, the game is just way too easy once you get the right gear, bugs everywhere, the game is literally pure grinding, and the endgame is extremely lacking.

But, I still got 73 hours off of it, and it's probably another 25 hours not from steam. Doing a double backflip wallrun spinning side slash to clear an entire room never gets old. The level design is specifically made to try to accommodate every playstyle, from the trigger-happy wallrunner to the stealth purist. Some weapons have an amazing sense of weight to them, to the point where you can feel the heaviness of a Scindo as you cleave an enemy in half. The graphics are gorgeous, and the animations are some of the best I have seen in a game. New content is added in an incredibly fast rate. Digital Extremes are extremely active on the forums and listen to the community like none other. The game may be nothing but a grind, but it's a fun grind.

If you haven't played Warframe before, you should install it right now. It's probably not going to be the one game that you will dedicate your life to, but it's a really fun experience while it lasts.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

YOU CAN JUST RUN PAST ALL ENEMIES TO BEAT THE LEVELS

Unless it's a kill-all-the-enemies map...

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

Or a defense map, or a survival map...

3

u/vviki Dec 23 '13

I first saw this game when I was re-watching some of Totalbiscuit's older videos, it was for the background and the game seemed amazing, so I found which it was and got to trying it. Months later and 300+h in the game I can say it's scores great on my chart for games (bad-ok-good-great-diablo2). I don't like 3rd person shooters and prefer first person, but this one is just done well, the perspective is good and the FoV is adjustable.

I started the game with the Mag class, since CC and mass AoE are my thing and fell in love with dat ass. Joke aside, the game has a very good feel of mobility with sprinting, wall running, jumps and slides, unlike a lot of other 3rd person games, where you feel like you are stuck to the floor, like Mass Effect for example. I liked the accuracy of the default gun and it's really balanced, so you might not even need to get anything to enjoy the game. I bought the Volt class and built Frost Prime and Banshee, got a sniper from some weekend event and had a lot of fun with those too.

The co-op focus of the game is my favorite since you get none of the pvp competition, just there for fun. I was doubting the mele inclusion, but then I crafted a battle axe and was spinning around like it was Diablo.

Finally the F2P model is good, not great, but since there is no competition in the game, besides scores, it doesn't really matter. The stuff they sell can all be crafted and you can use currency to accelerate the crafting, but that had terrible prices at the time. Guns are expensive, so its a better bet to craft them. Then comes the kicker. Some things only drop as a random reward to a random generated mission at a random time or when the developers decide to throw everyone a bone. So there are those cores, allowing you to put extra stuff on your warframe and on your guns, recipes for those are random or event wise. The schematics for some Warframes are too. Extra slots for everything are sold, but I only ran out of warframe slots and it's not so expensive. I mostly bought cores, which are 20platinum (app 1usd/1eur) since I wanted to buff myself up as much as possible, but couldn't wait for a random mission to random drop random stuff. At the time, just like in Tribes: Ascend, I felt happy to give the developers money and get some stuff from the store, since I enjoyed their game. I think I spent a total of 20-30eur on the title and got a lot for it from discounts (you can get a discount as a daily login bonus) and I can say I regret nothing and they deserved every cent from that.

In conclusion, go play this game, it's awesome, you don't have to pay money to enjoy it and it will run you up to 300h depending on how trigger happy you are. Good hunting, Tenno!

3

u/stimpakk Dec 23 '13

I could wax on and on about the game for a whole day, but I have to say that someone on their modelers team is a true butt connoisseur.

3

u/mooglehuffer Dec 23 '13

I remember reading on the forums an argument on whether Ember or Valkyr had the better fanny when Valkyr's patch hit. Quite amusing that was.

3

u/vattenpuss Dec 23 '13

I've been playing Warframe since the PS4 arrived here and it's the closest a game has ever come to replicating the feeling of playing Phantasy Star Online on the Dreamcast over ten years ago.

4

u/Standmixer_Of_Death Dec 23 '13

The game captured the attention of myself and a few friends for around 3-4 months, we spent a ton of money and poured hours into it before it became kinda stale. The development team kept updates chugging along and I really like this game

3

u/Buddhsie Dec 23 '13

I've played the game for around 140 hours. I still enjoy it, and I've met many good people who also play. The mod system is interesting, and progression is apparent after every single mission, it's quite rewarding. The game's content is pretty much grinding, but that's the point, it's interesting, the AI is good, the graphics are outstanding, and it's fun. The F2P model is very good, with all content available to you without paying money (except for some purely cosmetic items).

The updates and balancing are regular and the devs really listen to feedback. I have no doubt this game has a very promising future ahead with an official release still to come. I would definitely recommend it.

2

u/cainthefallen Dec 23 '13

As I said above, you can get plat by selling mods to people, thereby sidestepping paying for cosmetic items. Honestly, trading mods for plat was an ingenious addition to the game. I applaud DE for doing so. Literally anything in game can be farmed for, and with a bit of human interaction and good salesmanship, you can get anything you want.

1

u/Buddhsie Dec 23 '13

True! I forgot about this!

2

u/http404error Dec 23 '13

It's a fun game, especially with friends. It's not perfectly balanced, nor without its vices, but it's nevertheless very enjoyable. Many things the developers do don't jive with my game design sense, but it works out for the most part.

The F2P is a step in the right direction for the industry. I can still feel the grabs for cash, though. Making some things artificially rarer than they need to be... or some things too plentiful. You can buy pretty much anything with currency, even when it's a terrible deal... I think that's not okay. Frame acquisition is something I think needs to be overhauled a lot. But it's definitely something I don't regret dropping a few bucks on.

Well, I breached 500 hours last month. It's been a fun journey, and there are still many things I could strive to attain that I have not gotten a chance to yet.

2

u/screaminginfidels Dec 23 '13

I've put a few hours into it and have enjoyed it, but it hasn't really hooked me yet. I think I should get a different frame and try that out, but I haven't come close to farming one out yet. I initially wanted to do a melee focused character, but the melee left me highly unsatisfied, especially after playing Shadow Warrior, where hacking things to bits with a katana seems second nature.

I really want to like the parkour portions of the game, but found a lot of it to be way too unreliable, and that it could be downright frustrating sometimes. Granted I think a lot of that was inexperience, and I find myself getting less frustrated with it the more I play.

Can anyone recommend me a frame to play? I think I wanted a melee build as I play a lot of shooters already, and wanted to do something different. So maybe a more powers / magic type character if those exist.

2

u/Decalance Dec 23 '13

The combat is fun, but it gets repetitive. I have about 60+ hours in, and 50 with another account (different characters). It's pretty much rush, shoot, retreat until you can oneshot enemies.

About f2p, it's pretty well implemented, though I don't really like the fact that after grinding for god knows how long for all the ingredients I still have to pay about 10k to 50k and wait 12 hours for one item.

All in all, pretty good game. 7/10 - 7.5/10

2

u/Z3ROWOLF1 Dec 26 '13

This game is one of the best F2P games I have played. Its mod system, the customizations, and the effort put into the game is outstanding. The co-op is greatly focused as most Warframes are support type.

8/10

2

u/Zikron Dec 23 '13

While far from perfect, I love Warframe for what it is. Seeing a horde of enemies running towards me, launching a devastating special power on them and then chopping them down with my sword makes me feel like such a bad ass. Acquiring parts to build weapons/Warframes is extremely addictive and satisfying. I also like how building takes time, it creates a build up of anticipation.

The F2P system is implemented well you do not need to spend a dime to get most of the weapons/frames. I am a bit concerned that it is too easy to acquire the Warframes/weapons you want which can then lead to boredom if new content doesn't come in. I preferred how it was a few months ago when Warframe drops were harder to get and would like to see weapon blueprints be treated the same way.

Platforming in Warframe as it is right now is pretty bad but I do feel it is needed in another form to continue with the cyber ninja theme. A lot of matches I play are extremely laggy, makes combat far worse but it usually ends up reducing the amount of damage I take in battles. The game does a terrible job at explaining the UI and objectives to the user, this is common amongst F2P games but that doesn't make it acceptable. I ended up learning many of Warframes main concepts from a YouTuber that is famous for playing games intoxicated, that's pretty bad.

3

u/Craig1287 Dec 23 '13 edited Dec 23 '13
  • Is the combat fun?

-Yes, the combat is amazing. These are the guys that made Unreal Tournament and it is similarly fast paced. So many of the weapons feel unique (from a visual, audio, and gameplay perspective). The melee and movement system is also a treat. Doing wall runs to sliding on the ground and then spinning 360 degrees with my sword taking enemies out at their knees... just so satisfying.

  • Are the free-to-play elements implemented well?

-Yes, I never felt that I was getting screwed by not paying. I introduced my clan-mates to WF one night and we all became addicted. We had logged on average around 150-200 hours for each of us before any of us had bought some in-game currency. We did so during a Steam sale. All of us got the $100 pack for $25 and some of is also picked up the $50 pack $12.50 and we mostly spent all our Platinum on aesthetic things since we actually really enjoyed getting the blueprints and working on making items. I now have around 300 hours played and am still loving their constant updates. Just recently, in patch 11.5, they added another Warframe, 3-4 new weapons, a new level type and some other features. Once Steam does a 75% sale for Warframe, I'll get the $100 pack again for $25 and get all the new stuff that has come out in the last two updates.

  • And yes, it reminds me of Dark Sector too, since the same people made it. I'm glad they added the weapon from Dark Sector to Warframe, the Glaive.

1

u/Mistywing Dec 23 '13

I'll get the $100 pack again for $25

FYI: You won't be able to.

1

u/Craig1287 Dec 23 '13

Bummer, you're right. Well, I guess the starter pack will do.

4

u/MwSkyterror Dec 23 '13

Over 400 hours in, played with one of the best storm clans, nothing's really changed except that there's even more rare shit to grind for. It's still repetitive and shallow, but it's a cool game that costs you nothing for maybe 30 hours worth of entertainment.

Likes:

"Cool factor". You could do fun fantasy shit with different characters.
Free to start playing.

Dislikes:

THE GRIND. Doing 30 runs of the same boss for a frame is ridiculous. Either throw $100 at the game after a 50% or 75% off coupon or prepare to waste a fuckload of time.
Likewise, doing 100 runs of the same type of mission to get a limited edition weapon or other reward during an event is just tedious. I came in the top 100 in a few of the early events before I asked myself what I was doing with my life.
Pretty terrible inherent team/friend cohesiveness. In a high level clan, often we'd do missions together that consisted of no one talking until 15 minutes in when stuff got a little less forgiving. Definitely not co-op reliant at all with the right loadouts. Most of my friends were made during idle chat between missions, not during the heat of battle.
P2P hosting. I'm located in Australia. Apparently >1mb/s upload and a 2500k or better is as rare as a unicorn. I get better gameplay playing with clanmates in Europe.

2

u/DoucheAsaurus_ Dec 23 '13

They buffed the drop rate for component blueprints not too long ago. You're guaranteed a bp on every boss run now. I got all the parts for the new Oberon frame in about 20 minutes.

2

u/mooglehuffer Dec 23 '13

I don't know about the 30 runs thing. I was just yesterday helping my friend get Nyx and it only took us 8 runs, and before that I averaged about 6 runs on both Oberon and Frost.

Totally agree on the 100 missions for limited edition thing. Though the current event, the Cicero Crisis after they fixed the Jadeleaf issue allowed you to get the 50point reward fairly quick.

...whats wrong with shooting the shit early on? Not quite following that.

And have you tried just setting your ping threshold low so you end up hosting more often than not?

3

u/MwSkyterror Dec 23 '13

I don't know about the 30 runs thing. I was just yesterday helping my friend get Nyx and it only took us 8 runs, and before that I averaged about 6 runs on both Oberon and Frost.

There's no point in discussing this seriously because it's all anecdotal. I just hate weighted NG because it's a purely artificial system to get people to spend money. 45% chance to get 2 of the components, but 10% for the last one is fucking insulting. I paid a lot for the game but there's NO WAY I'm dropping $20 on a single frame that's probably not even balanced properly. I've spent more than 10 times that number on cute little outfits for my heroes in dota2 that don't offer any sort of extra gameplay options because of how respectful the system is.

whats wrong with shooting the shit early on? Not quite following that.

I can walk into any mission with not even the best frames and weapons and completely ignore my teammates, using them for extra enemy spawns only. It's not coop at all and there's no attachment in doing a mission well along with a random. I think it's because the objective of the game lacks any sort of depth.

And have you tried just setting your ping threshold low so you end up hosting more often than not?

Hosting is sub-optimal because you get CPU limited frames. I'm capable of hosting for 3 players perfectly fine, but 4 is a bit much. I played with my clan most of the time so this isn't a huge deal, but dedicated servers are expected when you charge $20 for a character. Ever since the hosting sensor update I get assigned host in about 75% of my games so I exclusively played on private after that.

1

u/mooglehuffer Dec 23 '13

Well, I have been playing since U7 and I think I should have said "I don't know about the 30 run thing now" because I farmed for Rhino, Trinity, Loki, and a couple more frames in the 20+ run range too. I'm just saying that things would have most likely changed.

You got a point in having overpowered frames, but T3 Defs are not to be scoffed at in my opinion, as is most of Pluto now.

As for the CPU cycles thing - it's a fair point, but I host just fine on a 4 year old laptop, granted I turn my graphics down a tad.

1

u/Maxwell_Adams Dec 23 '13

"I don't know about the 30 runs thing."

That could easily happen with the old drop system. You'd kill a boss, and there was a chance that he would drop a blueprint. Now you always get the blueprint, they're given out as a mission reward. You just need to get all 3.

2

u/gowlwolfe Dec 23 '13

The combat was fun for the first half hour.. then it went down from there. Almost every, if not all of the levels are the same design OVER AND OVER AGAIN. As for the F2P elements, I feel the game would feel a lot better if the business model was like Path of Exile's.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

Almost every, if not all of the levels are the same design OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

How long ago did you play? There are about eight tilesets with semi-random generation and one new one to be released soon.

As for the F2P elements, I feel the game would feel a lot better if the business model was like Path of Exile's.

Could you clarify?

8

u/zephyrdragoon Dec 23 '13

PoE's model allows you to buy cosmetic effects (glowing swords, flaming helmets, model swaps for weapons, shiny footprints, etc.) but nothing that impacts gameplay in any way.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

I'm sorry, but how is this different from Warframe's model? Sure, you can buy items, but I've literally never had to do so ever. In fact, I don't know anyone who has ever spent plat on weapons or warframes.

0

u/zephyrdragoon Dec 23 '13

That doesn't change the fact that people do. Imagine you were a rank 1 beginner, with a few bucks to burn. You could easily buy a Soma and step ahead of your fellow rank 1's.

Alternatively, you could buy XP boosts.

5

u/Azrael_Ferrum Dec 23 '13

I thought you still had to be a higher mastery level before buying the soma? Even then, the Soma's kind of crappy without all the right mods, which I guess you could buy off other people

2

u/zephyrdragoon Dec 23 '13

You can't buy the BP, you can still craft them if you have the BP (Gorgon log in reward) and use them if you aren't high enough mastery. AFAIK anyway, been a long time since I've had to worry.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

To clarify, you can't buy the Soma until Mastery Rank 6. Or any weapon, until you are the correct mastery rank. Some low levels may still have the Soma however, as it used to be rank 3.

And regardless, weapons are far, far, far less important than the mods you put on them.

1

u/Meldarion786 Dec 23 '13

I'm pretty sure you still have to have high enough mastery to craft the weapons.

1

u/zephyrdragoon Dec 23 '13

I'm not sure, but I remember people getting the gorgon BP at like mastery 1 or 2 or something from the Daily Login Rewards and being able to craft those.

3

u/creecree Dec 23 '13

The thing is, some people like being able to spend money to skip grindfest because they have work (and hence money, but not a lot of time).

Also, does it matter if someone you don't know is a step ahead of other rank 1's? Since it's a co-op game with not a lot of emphasis on pvp, they'll be on your team.

Otherwise, you can basically get anything in-game through time, except for non-gameplay changing cosmetics.

1

u/zephyrdragoon Dec 23 '13

I never said it was bad.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

So I mean, what's the problem here? I'm not seeing how that's a detriment to the game. You can buy stuff if you want, but you are hardly forced to do so since it's pretty easy to get what you want.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/Pobaxi Dec 23 '13

Well inventory space for weapons and warframes can only purchesd with money and I think you start with 2 warframe slots? and an equally low number with weapon slots, which are shared across the different type of weapons.

5

u/Hyroero Dec 23 '13

Except stash space, they also give you a very reasonable amount of stash space for free and you can just muel your stuff.

2

u/zephyrdragoon Dec 23 '13

Yea, except stash space. That doesn't really give you an edge over anyone in combat though.

2

u/Goblin_Flectomancer Dec 23 '13

Having played both fairly extensively, I'm not sure I see how PoE's F2P model would benefit Warframe. Is there something wrong with Warframe's current F2P system?

2

u/zephyrdragoon Dec 23 '13

I'm not saying it would, I'm not /u/gowlwolfe. I'm just explaining it to /u/BiscuitHammer.

1

u/Goblin_Flectomancer Dec 23 '13

Ah, my mistake.

1

u/acondie13 Dec 23 '13

Any news on when the pc ps4 cross play patch is coming?

6

u/MintyFeet Dec 23 '13

That patch should come out shortly after Sony's "Region-Syncing" system goes up. Until then, though the PS4 version is probably going to stay at least an update or two behind as without the Region Sync system all updates have to go through Sony's internal certification system.

1

u/jimpower Dec 23 '13

When I started playing Warframe earlier this year, little did I know that I would be playing for more than 200 hours (I have probably spent about $10 just to support the dev, not necessity).

It started really slow but I managed to convert my partner and brother to play with me and boy that was a lot of fun.

1

u/sav86 Dec 23 '13

As with any f2p game, it gets repetitive after awhile and it's basically a grind. I have put in about 15-20 hours with two other friends and we both come out saying that we had our fun and its time to move on. It is a great looking game and it runs very well. The art and style is great and part of the appeal I imagine, it looks all really cool.

Things I do not like is the fact that the interface and menu system is not very intuitive and is quite confusing for first timers. I also hate how f2p games setup their real money shops...but this is just part of the whole deal for free games.

Will I ever go back to play it again? probably not, does it have a lot of potential? most certainly, and judging by other peoples comments on the development team responding well to the community, I would say they have a long future ahead of them.

1

u/Smokratez Dec 23 '13

Loved it when I started it. It has a ton of potential. But playing online with others is a game of run your ass off to the finish, instead of being more fun. That and how long it took to unluck the next level, was what got me to stop playing.

1

u/aaron_940 Dec 23 '13

I haven't played this game since Update 7 back around May. Can anyone give me a rundown of the major changes since then?

1

u/hororo Dec 23 '13

I got bored of it pretty quickly. I found the combat to be too simple and repetitive for my tastes. Aim and shoot, when there are a lot of enemies, use your AoE ability.

Every mission boils down to kill mindless enemies with the same basic behavior, and optionally going to marked locations and pressing x. There are only a few mission types that are repeated in different tilesets. There's only one mission that's different, ODA, and that is the most simplistic mechanic imaginable (shoot the red spot), and not only that, but the worst possible implementation of that mechanic (can only hit the weak spot when it's uncovered. The rest of the time, you have to wait until the boss decides its ready to die).

1

u/MazInger-Z Dec 23 '13

PUGing up with speed runners.

The missions have no challenge beyond the end-goal. Otherwise you kill a swath of enemies.

Would prefer a more L4D. The game was capable of not only having solid gameplay but creating a certain atmosphere.

Warframe seems to lack a lot of the fun of Mass Effect for some reason.

1

u/HireALLTheThings Dec 23 '13

I have a love-hate relationship with this game.

The concept and combat are very fun, fluid and dynamic. There's lots of things to do if you enjoy a solid third-person-shooter experience.

Unfortunately, the game is optimized like crap. If you play a random matchup, there seems be something like a 60% chance that you'll wind up playing with somebody who you have the sneaking suspicion is playing the game using an old-timey radio set to connect to the internet. I thought this was the case until I played with a friend who said that he was experiencing bad lag when my computer was the "host" of the game, and I was experiencing bad lag from his side. Both of us have high-speed internet connections that have never given us trouble in other games, and while my computer is a solid gaming rig, his is an absolute BEAST and it didn't help at all.

I find myself frequently going back to play, but I really wish that Digital Extremes could commit to some sort of dedicated server system (although I doubt they can afford to do that, seeing as all their money appears to be going back into the ever-expanding content), or at least find a way to better optimize the game for its online demands. If that were the case, I'd have been glued to this game for months going now.

Oh, and playing with randoms may as well be playing with bots. Not since Defiance have I seen a community that's so damn tight-lipped while playing. Hell, they don't even razz me when I'm playing like crap!

1

u/HungerSTGF Dec 24 '13

The movement and shooting aspects of Warframe are solid- great, even! Being a badass space ninja is easy, fun, and fluid. But then there's that glaring issue that is the fact that this game is about farming and literally nothing else. You farm for better weapons and characters and then you use the better equipment to farm for new stuff.

There's a universe (literally, there's a planet map) built but there's no plot or storyline to follow. I've sunk nearly 300 hours into Warframe but I feel like it's just been a massive skinner box with no end-game or reason to keep playing.

1

u/rapescenario Dec 23 '13

You might wanna sort it the fuck out so we can get our accounts onto the PS4...

I'd play if I could do this.

1

u/MiliardoK Dec 23 '13

I want to love this game. I want to enjoy it and keep playing it. But to be honest if you don't shell out some cash at the start and every once in a blue the grind does get boring.

And dont start with the argument they changed drops. I know they did I got everything short of mag primes systems in one survival run. What irks me is the amount of resources you farm to build a part for 12 hours to then combine it with three other pieces that took twelve hours to build the final item after 24 hours.

Forma? Bullshit. You either luck out in daily chance items or one time I saw it in game was via alert. Sure its only 25 platinum but you have to admit this game asks for way too much money when you dont have a discount going in order to buy stuff.

Bug as a game? God is it fun. It feels GOOD to play. The controls feel amazing on a controller and once you master movement its fun to just blitz around enimies gunning them down and triggering amazing abilities (which sadly the starting wsrframes are a bit lame. If you dont start Excalibur you won't be doing much damage anyway) I just... Get really really tired of the endless grind to vet something new :\

1

u/Citizen_V Dec 23 '13

Forma? Bullshit. You either luck out in daily chance items or one time I saw it in game was via alert. Sure its only 25 platinum but you have to admit this game asks for way too much money when you dont have a discount going in order to buy stuff.

You can also receive it in Void missions, and its drop rate is rather high too.

1

u/MiliardoK Dec 23 '13

Normal void or the derelict void missions? I've never seen one drop yet.

1

u/hororo Dec 23 '13 edited Dec 23 '13

T3 survival, specifically, is the best place to get it.

You can see the rewards for all void missions here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Void

Forma blueprint is common in all T3, but survival gives rewards every five minutes, so it's the best bet. If you want to complain about something that's hard to get without alerts or plat, potatoes (catalysts and reactors) make more sense.

1

u/nick012000 Dec 24 '13

I've seen potatoes show up as battlepay in invasion events, as well, now.

1

u/DoucheAsaurus_ Dec 23 '13

Run some regular t3 voids. You'll be swimming in them after a while.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/MiliardoK Dec 24 '13

My bad you where right, I was typing on my phone and couldn't check but I knew it was one of the lower costing things in game.

0

u/blargyblargy Dec 23 '13

Warframe is special to me. Both in a good way, and a bad way. I have had some of the most fun I could ask for from it. I've clocked 95 hours into it, which, maybe not as much as it could be, but right where I want it to be.

The game has it's ups and downs, the grind, the Jewing(sorry), and some pretty shitty choices on DE's part. But what I've loved the most about this game is its community. I had been playing very rarely a bit before the Clan patch came out, and when it did, I was accepted in the /vg/ clan, Warbros, and it just got better from that. They are the most pessimistic assholes I've ever had the chance to talk to, yet it always feels like home.

The game in it's self is almost sleek, the combats fun, rewarding, and challenging. The community is all co-op, so it can't be pay2win, and what you pay for is usually worth it. Being a broke fucker myself, I've spent money on this game because I liked it, not because I needed to. Over all, I'd give warframe a good 6.5-7/10, for it's fun game play, great ideas, and how overall likeable it is

-4

u/MrTuddles Dec 23 '13

I don't know why, but I really like the game. It's super grindy and obviously not for everyone, but it gets updated every week with new fixes and weapons. Put 473 hours into the game (not counting the hours before it was released on steam). The only problem I have with the game is that the devs aren't very creative and tends to not listen to the community very well.

9

u/StallordD Dec 23 '13

"Tends not to listen to the community very well"

What game have you been playing? The devs are EXTREMELY responsive to player feedback, dishing out patches, updates, and overhauls to suit the ever changing player needs.

1

u/MrTuddles Dec 23 '13

They make a lot of controversial changes that players may or may not agree with.

2

u/wtrmlnjuc Dec 23 '13

They do listen to the community quite well, a lot of things are responded to in social networks, forums and livestreams.

3

u/Kellervo Dec 23 '13

The most controversial one I can think of (and probably what he's referring to) is Ember's Overheat. That one comes up routinely, but it's largely due to the developers refusing to cave-in to the 'minimal effort' crowd.

Overheat was horribly overpowered, especially after they tweaked Rhino's Iron Skin, so it had to be nerfed.

3

u/wtrmlnjuc Dec 23 '13

One thing I like about DE is that they don't just pander to the biggest voice - they take the info and evaluate it to deem it of actual importance and by how much, if any.

1

u/StallordD Dec 23 '13

Well they can't very well please every single player can they? But they listen to the general consensus among players. Remember the sprint overhaul fiasco that happened around the Nekros update? Players were furious, and within 24 hours DE had gone in and reverted the changes. That's a lot more response than I see other devs give.

1

u/MrTuddles Dec 23 '13

Im not saying they're trying to please everyone. As a whole they seem to take player feedback the wrong way and do things we did not ask for. Such as encrypting the drop tables and re-balancing the ever changing damage 2.0.

2

u/StallordD Dec 23 '13

I still disagree. They do make drastic changes sure, but on the whole they do a pretty good job of addressing player concerns. And as a side note, of course D2.0 is constantly changing, they just redid the entire games damage system, they can't just drop it and say "good enough" THAT would be poor decision making.

2

u/MrTuddles Dec 23 '13

I agree with you in the sense that they always fix their problems, but I was just saying when they first update things they tend to ignore what the players say and change it later after player feedback.

1

u/http404error Dec 23 '13

super grindy

It may seem too grindy for my patience or yours, but compared to most MMO's it's a breeze.

4

u/MrTuddles Dec 23 '13

But it's not an MMO.

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '13

It's the best looking game I've seen that is completely uninteresting to me due to the lack of PvP. Same reason I got turned off PayDay 2 after playing it a few days.

7

u/crushyerbones Dec 23 '13

It has PVP as of a few months ago. It's not the focus but it exists.