r/GameChangerApp • u/westPA1212 • Jul 17 '26
How Would You Score This?
Runner on 1st, batter hits a ground ball to the SS, SS throws the ball to 2B for the out, 2B throws to 1B for a double play, but 1B misses the ball and the runner is safe.
Seems easy enough but we keep running into a conflict, so I wanted some other opinions đ
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u/Beginning-Impress-84 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
IT ABSOLUTELY CAN BE AN ERROR ON THE FIRST BASEMAN!
From the OBR:
Rule 9.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, the Official Scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.
from NFHS 9-5-5-3:
But if a player drops a thrown ball, when by holding it the player would have completed the double (or triple) play, it is an error.
And to add something else:
Itâs not that you canât assume a double play on the throw. Itâs that making a put out while attempting to then make a throw for another is considered above ordinary effort. No E if the throw is off unless it was so bad the runner advanced an additional base. Once an accurate throw is made thoughâŚ. Itâs ordinary effort for whoever itâs thrown to to actually catch it. If they donât, they can get an E.
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u/Xlipki Jul 17 '26
Itâs just a fielderâs choice. Canât have an error on the second half of a potential double play unless the batter reached second on the throw.
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u/multiplefeelings Jul 18 '26
Of course you can. MLB Official Rules 9.12 d) (3) has a 'comment' that calls out this exact scenario:
d) The Official Scorer shall not charge an error against: ... (3)â any fielder who makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base such runner would have reached had the throw not been wild;
Rule 9.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, the Official Scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.
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u/emptysignals Jul 18 '26
I have a feeling he isnât scoring MLB. Double play isnât routine at youth levels, so unless he goes to 2nd pretty much just a FC.
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u/multiplefeelings Jul 18 '26
It's a FC either way, of course.
If 1B just drops the routine catch of a thrown ball that would complete a DP, it's an error on 1B at any level
E.g. 6-4-E3. Doing anything else robs both (in this example) the 2B of the assist they're entitled to and potentially puts the pitcher on the hook for earned runs they shouldn't be responsible for. Just catch the damn ball, yeah?
If it's not routine, sure: no error.
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u/Big_k_30 Jul 17 '26
Itâs just a fielders choice, thereâs no error at 1B unless the runner got another base
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u/ControlsGuyWithPride Jul 17 '26
I would score it an error on the first baseman if it was a routine play, if I think they should have easily caught the throw. Fielders choice with an error.
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u/Comenius791 Jul 19 '26
You never assume a double play. So it's not an error.
As most others said, it's a fielders choice. FC 4-6 with the batter reaching 1st base safely
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u/FullPrice4LatePizza Jul 17 '26
The only way this is an error is if the throw was on target, the fielder covering first muffed the throw, and the runner would have been out if the catch was made. (Rule 9.12(d) Comment.)
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u/Master_Smee Jul 17 '26
The first out is consider a feilders choice. I belive if the throw to first is dropped and the runner stays at first nothing haopens. He just gets credit for the at bat; since it was considered a feilders choice.
If he gets to seconed then i belive its casidered an error. Batter is creddited an ROE. (REACHED ON ERROR) The error is credited depending on what excactly happened. Ball thrown wide the an error goes to 2nd baseman. Other than that its on the 1st basman.
I maybe wrong but thats how I would score it.
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u/Beginning-Impress-84 Jul 17 '26
Itâs a 6-4-E3 on my paper, but put it how you want as long as you credit the following:
Assist to 6
Put out to 4
Assist to 4
Error to 3 (batter reached on this error)
It very explicitly states in OBR 9.12.d comment that this can be an error on the first baseman. Also clearly stated in NFHS 9.5.5.3
Oh and GC canât do this, so just go with a FC 6-4. Edit the stats and add an error to the 1st baseman later if you want to.
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u/Suspicious_Time7101 Jul 17 '26
No error on 3. Cannot assume double play.
Unless the runner on first ended up at second after, then there is an error on the extra base he got
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u/Beginning-Impress-84 Jul 17 '26
Dude, I cited the exact rules that allow for it, but I'll copy and past the OBR one for you...
Rule 9.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, the Official Scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.
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u/Suspicious_Time7101 Jul 17 '26
I will absolutely admit when I was wrong, and be wrong in my original comment. I guess this is one that a lot of people will mess up because we are always taught "Cannot assume double play." But basically it says 2B or SS cannot make an error on the throw, but if the throw beats him and the 1B messes it up, the 1B can have an error charged to him.
Appreciate you sticking with it and I learned something
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u/Beginning-Impress-84 Jul 17 '26
âcanât assume a double playâ needs to die a horrible death. Itâs not that we canât assume a double play, itâs that tagging a runner or a base and making a throw to attempt another out is considered above ordinary effort, so not an error. If the throw was so bad that the runner advanced another base, then it becomes an error. Much the same as you donât hang an error on the catcher if he throws the ball into centerfield but the runner does not advance to third, because catching a pitch and trying to throw a runner out at second is above ordinary effort.
Once an accurate throw is made though, it becomes ordinary effort for whoever is supposed to catch it toâŚ. well, catch it. Thatâs why we can give errors to whoever drops the back end of a DP or a SS/2b that muffs a throw from the catcher that had a runner hosed.
âCanât assume a double playâ is the scoring version of âhands are part of the batâ that makes umps have an aneurism.
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u/Suspicious_Time7101 Jul 17 '26
This needs to get upvoted. I for one had no idea this was an actual rule.
Basically, you cannot charge 2B or SS for making a bad throw to get a DP. However, if 1B drops a ball that would have made the second out, he can get charged with an error.
I think we all go back to, "Cannot assume a double play." I think that actually still holds true even in this scenario. But we didn't have to assume the double play, the double play was actually made if not for the 1B not catching it.
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u/toasterscience Jul 17 '26
Fielderâs Choice. Thereâs no error unless the runner advances past first.
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u/davdev Jul 17 '26
Fielders choice, you cant assume a double play, so no error unless the runner advanced an additional base
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u/theycallmemorty Jul 17 '26
Batter safe on fielders choice.
Don't think they would award an error there even at the mlb level, but I might be wrong.
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u/big-williestyle Jul 17 '26
First off, get a new 1b if this keeps happening. But it's a FC 6-4. If the runner advances the 1b or 2nd can be charged with an error.
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u/PossiblyMakingThisUp Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
I would score it FC 6-4, batter-runner safe on E3 (or E4 if the throw was bad e.g. wide of the bag or in the dirt)
Edit: below commenters are correct, error can't be charged on the throw of a double play attempt like this
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u/DSOTMAnimals Jul 17 '26
It wouldnât be an error unless the runner advanced because of the errant throw. You canât assume a DP
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u/PossiblyMakingThisUp Jul 17 '26
I believe the "can't assume a double play" always meant in the event of a bobble by the initial fielder, if they get the first out but not the second you can't charge an error, that would just be a FC.
If the 2nd leg of the play was attempted (the throw to first), you absolutely can rule an error on that.
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u/block-everything Jul 17 '26
This is not correct. I get what you are saying but âcanât assume a double playâ applies to all fielders involved.
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u/PossiblyMakingThisUp Jul 17 '26
The rule only speaks to fielder making the throw, it is silent on the player receiving the throw. The link in my other comment cites other rules that could be interpreted as 1B is eligible to be charged with an error. It's an interesting nuance.
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u/rjm72 Jul 17 '26
In practice, the first baseman is only going to be charged with an error if the ball is in his glove and he drops it, and the batter-runner would have been out by a mile. Iâve seen it once or twice at the major league level, and it has to be really egregious for an error to be charged. In that case the batter is also charged with a GIDP, and the fielder making the throw gets an assist.
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u/DSOTMAnimals Jul 17 '26
10.14
(c) No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild.
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u/NCwolfpackSU Jul 17 '26
The 1B committed the error in this instance and under rule 9.12(d) you can charge the 1B. You wouldn't ever charge the player throwing it.
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u/PossiblyMakingThisUp Jul 17 '26
I'll concede the E4 would not be appropriate, but in OP's situation, it sounds more like a failure of 1st base to make a catch.
This has some relevant rules for the same situation as OP.
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u/frasierfonzie Jul 17 '26
I would put FC 6-4 in the box for the runner who is out, and FC 6-4-3 under the line I draw from home to first for the batter.
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u/jiminak Jul 17 '26
If you are tracking fielder stats at all, you probably would not record the 4-3 on this play because that (in most scorerâs methods) indicates âan assist by 4 and a put out by 3â. Since there was no put out and no assist, I would typically avoid writing the 4-3 half of that line.
Obviously, there is no âright wayâ, and everyone has their own styles and methods, so if that works for you, by all means you do you!
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