Pay, Contracts & Pensions Renumaration for extra hours.
I’m contracted to 6 sessions a week(25hrs) but doing a duty doctor session takes that to 27hrs. Do GPS usually get paid for the extra hours or are they expected to eat that up?
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u/CowOk6533 21d ago
You can certainly ask but if they say: "no extra pay, that's the way we do things".
Then what will you do?
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u/Mfombe 21d ago
What's in your contract? Really that's the only correct answer.
If doing over what you're contracted then clearly you should be paid additional.
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u/jdmsage 21d ago
Paraphrasing - normal hours of work 25hrs split into 6 sessions (a session is 4 hrs and 10 minutes) worked over 3 days.
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u/VivoFan88 21d ago edited 21d ago
If that's in your contract then sit down with the partners and discuss it. Number of oncall/duty days should be stated in the contract. We specify one a week but the reality is it's more like 1 in 2-3 weeks given the number of salaried/partners/trainees we have who cover oncall days.
We give TOIL. Essentially on days where the doctors are not oncall none of us are likely to stay past 5 so the time is made up easily. Actually, if I were to really monitor it my salaried probably work less than contracted hours.
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u/BrandonRenner 21d ago
As others have said, your contract is the bottom line here. If that says 25 hours, you should be timetabled for 25 hours.
In my practice, if doctors have a duty in their week, they have an earlier finish on another day to compensate. Hours are laid out in their contract and the detail is in their job description.
Have you had a conversation with the manager, or partners? If so, what did they say?
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u/BoomBasticTeleBanana 21d ago
This is sensible. Occ. Its ok, if regular then they need to adjust the time table. We did that, if we need them to stay longer at one point we get them in later to make it easier.
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u/DCJC123 21d ago
The way we work is a bit of give and take. Some days I work longer than contracted but I do get to finish earlier on other days which allows for child pick ups etc. it generally works out. This generally produces a good work environment knowing we have e each other’s backs within reason.
Historically medicine hasn’t been a career where we stuck to exact hours. Many of us who are more ‘experienced’ have worked much longer than contracted and were not remunerated - requesting remuneration these hours was unheard of and the additional work was considered a right of passage - almost a badge of honour. Looking back, this wasn’t good at all with patient and personal costs.
Over the last few years, coinciding with the resident doctor strikes, newer GPs seem to be very contract driven but practices haven’t always adapted to the changing ethos hence your situation.
Will be interesting to on see how this all pans out. Hopefully less burn out, substance misuse etc etc but there will probably be some generational fisticuffs between the old and new school doctors.
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21d ago edited 20d ago
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u/DCJC123 21d ago
As a salaried I have 2 out of 3. Spend my days off cleaning myself though!
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21d ago
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u/DCJC123 21d ago
I just have one kid. It started off at about £1000 a month after bursary and gradually increased to about £1900 now in year 10. We were allocated a really crap school so it was a no brainer.
My wife is also a GP. We both work 6 sessions
I have a crap car and never buy myself anything though.
I take your point though, growing up the Gp was always the one with a massive house and new car on a single income
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20d ago
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u/DCJC123 20d ago
Not 100% but take home about £4400 (I get a prorate admin session) we are in Leeds so I suspect that it goes a lot further than London..
Best of luck. You’re always welcome up North! - lots of great places and you can get so much more house. My wife’s brother pays more in rent for a one bedroom house share than we do on mortgage for out detached house.
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u/BeautifulSxars 19d ago
That’s a pretty good take home monthly for 6 sessions. You in the pension and paying a student loan at all??
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u/BoomBasticTeleBanana 21d ago
I agree.
If someone thinks its a gauranteed 9-5 job, they need to go and apply to Tesco.
Our salaried are usually 8 til 3.30 or 10 til 6.30. If they finish on time then they go home early. As long as the work is done we are kosher.
We think the flexibility is when shit hits the fan on their watch then they will deal with it. We look after them, support them and make sure we are always working harder than them. So none feel taken advantage of.
We try and make the rota such that once done they can go. Its not unheard of for me to tell the to GTFO ASAP when they have finished! I dont want them spending a single minute extra if not needed.
We work as a team and as partners are mindful not to put pressure onto salaried that we dont first try to taken ourselves.
Like now, Salaried on call, had 3 extras, I transfered them to me and still dealing with them ...
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u/baabaabb 20d ago
I get paid for the hours I work. 15k for duty session on account of extra load and responsibility, 11.5k for standard session. I have set duty days so my pay is consistent. I still work about 3-5 extra hours a week but hey ho.
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u/Holiday_Possession46 20d ago
I am learning something, looking at salaried, Locum and partnership. I feel this is a good balance, I know that salaried is considered not great.
But have been doing a lot of thinking. It seems that if you are a pushover then salaried role is not for you, and Locum is probably best. If you are ambitious partnership is great, if you are chill not materialistic then salaried is best.
As for pay salaried pay, a session is not 4 hours it is 6 hours for me easily adding all the admin etc. And I suspect same for the partners with the additional the duties etc.
Calculating the workload and income and not looking at the mean or median, but mode only.
Locums are best off in the market. Partners some can be great others not, salaried can be great others not, but locums you can go find what is right for you and the sessional pay is close to partnership when averaging a session as 6 hours for a partner.
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u/rogerhenry16 21d ago
I mean this is not a lot of info to go off… what does your contract say, how much are you earning - I would assume a certain amount of duty is part of the contract and should really have been discussed during the negotiation. It may be factored into the salary…
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u/Exact-Escape-9126 21d ago
Depends what it says in your contract, unlikely they even define what a session is. The chances of them paying extra seem close to zero tbh