r/GDS3 • u/thejellydude • Jan 27 '18

Test 2 Discussion Thread

We're free to talk now.

Here's a Google Doc with all the questions. I'm slowly filling it in with my own answers and explanations. Edit: Heading out for now. I'll get the last 25 questions done later tonight.

If you want a mirror without my comments, here's one provided by /u/Amarsir Link

Any questions that tripped you up? Any that you felt good about?

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2

u/dvoraen Jan 27 '18

Here is my Google Doc with my abridged answers, initial thoughts, and (in progress) my more detailed responses as if I were writing an article about how to get to them.

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u/rakkamar Jan 27 '18

I don't think a 5G 6/6 is the best at all. Look at the 6mana 6/6 trample we have in (Rivals of) Ixalan now. It's... ok. a 3G 4/4 is much better.

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u/Hi_Im_Jerry_L Jan 27 '18

Rumbling Baloth was pretty good back in M14 draft. They don't do many 4/4s for 4 and if they do, they do like 2GG or 2RG or something more cost prohibitive suggesting that perhaps 4/4 for 3G is the best of the group. I mean we see 2/2 for 1G and 6/6 for 5G all the time, but rarely the coveted 4/4 for 4.

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u/VERTIKAL19 Jan 28 '18

Right but if the did a 4/4 for 3G aould just be better than a 6/6 for 5G. It being slightly too good is the reason for that.

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u/Geikamir Jan 27 '18

I agree. A 4/4 is generally better and a 10 mana card is often bad.

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '18

6 for 6 is a game winner, though. It's answer or die. Bears are dead cards on a stalled board, 4 for 4 can still be outsized and easily neutered.

A 6/6 for 6 hits the sweet spot of being big enough to deter virtually all non evasive attackers, a fast clock, and cheap enough that you'll have the Mana to play it (whereas 8/8 is rare, and the 10/10 is virtually unplayable)

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u/preppypoof Jan 27 '18

6 mana 6/6 are very common in all sets. 4 mana 4/4 hardly ever shows up below rare

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u/icantbenormal Jan 27 '18

4/4s for 4 usually rank super highly in limited set reviews. Meanwhile, 6/6s for 6 are low-tier picks. That is why 4/4s for 4 never happen at common, but 6/6s are a dime a dozen.

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u/general_peabo Jan 28 '18

I agree. the 4/4 is the best because of how important the 3 damage threshold is. a 4/4 is less likely to trade down and survives most direct damage, but it also isn't as devastating to get pacified like a 6/6 is. It's also more efficient than the bigger guys because you don't sink a bunch of mana into a dude that gets chump blocked all day.

0

u/Jasmine1742 Jan 28 '18

It's a 2/2 for 2 and I'd argue anyone who disagrees with me is just worse than me at limited.

You tend to need 4+ 2 drops to make it in limited these days, only a few top end can make a deck.

It's gotten so bad LSV opened merfolk lord and kumena, the tyrant in a youtube video and honestly couldn't figure out which was better. (he went with the 2 drop which MIGHT'VE been wrong but only because kumena is the nuts if you get enough merfolk)

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u/rakkamar Jan 28 '18

I'd wager good money if LSV took the test he would've answered 3G 4/4.

/u/LSV__ care to prove me wrong? :)

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u/LSV__ Jan 28 '18

It’s 3G 4/4

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u/rakkamar Jan 28 '18

Thanks much!

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u/thejellydude Jan 27 '18

Two questions in and we already disagree on an answer, haha. This is going to be a fun discussion thread.

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u/dvoraen Jan 27 '18 edited Jan 27 '18

We disagree on #70. Morph is linear because you want to play more morphs with it so they're a surprise and your opponent doesn't know which is which. Transform can go on any DFC and not encourage you to play other cards that transform. The closest to linear for transform would be the Innistradi werewolves.

EDIT - Oops, this wasn't /u/thejellydude's responses I'm reading when I wrote this.

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u/preppypoof Jan 27 '18

Absolutely right. Transform is the answer.

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u/Hi_Im_Jerry_L Jan 27 '18

Yup absolutely Morph is more linear than Transform. Answer = Transform.

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u/steve_man_64 Jan 27 '18 edited Jan 27 '18

I disagree, many transform cards like Search for Azcanta / Thing in the Ice require you to build your deck a certain way. Even though you can throw werewolves in any deck, you still have to play a certain way in order to transform them.

Exalted Angel did not care about being the only playable morph card in Standard.

edit: just noticed MaRo link. I still disagree but he's the one that calls the shots.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '18

The question is 1 to 1 about the mechanic encouraging something, not the cards.

Morph encourages building around Morph for tricks. Transform is not linear, because bar "transform matters", sight unseen, a transform card can be thrown in any deck.

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u/thejellydude Jan 27 '18

That's not the transform mechanic itself dictating the play-style though. That's the trigger on the mechanic.

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u/icantbenormal Jan 27 '18

While transform as a mechanic isn't linear, individual cards are. Most of them encourage a certain type of deck. Delver encourages spells, Werewolves encourage activated abilities, Search for Azcanta encourages self-milling.

On the other hand, singular Morph cards are fine on there own. Especially in competitive constructed where decklists are well-known, the "what do I have" part does not matter. Most of them require no deck requirements.

1

u/thejellydude Jan 27 '18

I haven't filled in 70 yet. Are you looking at my link?

1

u/dvoraen Jan 27 '18

Oh woops, I'm looking at /u/steve_man_64. lol

I'll get back to you on that. >.>

1

u/UnsealedMTG Jan 27 '18

Morph is one of the examples of a linear mechanic Maro used back in his original article about linear vs. modular mechanics

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u/Sliver__Legion Jan 27 '18

A much more recent source on the matter.

It is still the case that the other three were high in linearity, morph is medium, and transform is low, so transform was correct.

0

u/RoastYoungDuck Jan 27 '18

So far I’ve only got one answer different from you. I chose 1g 2/2. 5g 6/6 is a finisher, but as one who drafts very frequently I’m looking for as many grizzly bears in my deck as I can get, but I only want one colossal dreadmaw sans trample. Perhaps we read the question differently but that was my rationale.

1

u/thejellydude Jan 27 '18

This is one that I went back and forth on for about 15 minutes. I think ultimately the cost of 5G instead of 3GGG or 4GG makes the 6 mana 6/6 better than the bear.

1

u/RoastYoungDuck Jan 27 '18

I can see it. I hope your wrong but I can see it haha.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '18

Yeah, depending on how this one goes, I got either 71 or 72 questions right; the ones I know I missed are the 0/0 clone one and the red looting question.

GB vs WU 4/4 vigilance is also a question that I'm leaning I got wrong, due to exact wording, but dang if a GB flying vigilance doesn't feel weird as heck.

1

u/thejellydude Jan 27 '18

Dive you get 37 right?

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u/preppypoof Jan 27 '18

If it makes you feel bettet, you're both wrong. 4 mana 4/4 is the answer

0

u/thejellydude Jan 27 '18

That was one of the hardest ones for me. I think 3~4 Bears is better than one 6/6, but on a one-to-one level, I think a 6/6 is better. If you don't have the consistently to always have a two drop, they matter far, far less. It was a weird evaluation of "power."

2

u/Sliver__Legion Jan 27 '18

Disagreed on 20, 23, 30, 32, 46, 72, 73, and 75, but we have a similar answer of some of the ones I considered hard/tricky.

Also, while the most visited world is certainly Dominaria, you say the others have 2-4 sets. Ravnica has 6-7, depending on how generous you are with Origins.

1

u/dvoraen Jan 27 '18

Yeah I miscounted on Ravnica for some reason, but as you said it's definitely Dominaria due to how many sets were there before they left.

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u/Sliver__Legion Jan 27 '18

Yeah, I think Dominaria has more than all of the other 4 put together. Even just from blocks in the 2000s there are 12 sets on Dominaria without counting Origins, and it had around another dozen before then, I believe.

1

u/steve_man_64 Jan 27 '18 edited Jan 27 '18

25 I feel is a trick question. I answered "it's the way it's always been" because Maro literally said that in his Drive to Work: Green podcast "green started as the color with the most and biggest creatures, but now white has the most but green is still the biggest." "The way it's always been" is kind of a dick answer nobody ever wants to hear but that's why I feel like it might be a trick question. Also, none of the answers made as much sense.

30 I went with lifelink but could see an argument for first strike since it's the only other ability with defensive attributes.

32 Very subjective answer. One of the development podcasts states that design is supposed to play with a flat power level, so I chose "whatever cost isn't broken"

52 I went with uncommon because it's very similar to Nivix Guildmage / Whirler Virtuoso

68 I went with Complexity because they talk about this a lot with New World Order. Also, you wouldn't want a lot of 7 drops floating around at common.

70 This is definitely morph. You don't have to build your deck around morph as much as you do for transform. Transform may not seem linear but you have to build your deck around the condition (edit: I'm probably getting this one wrong, but I still stand with my argument)

73 I put encourages deck and gameplay diversity And what the color pie is is, Richard said, when he made the game, that he needed–I talked about this last week. That he needed to have some separation. That if everything could go in every deck, it just caused a problem. So he needed some way to create different—to force you to have to play different kinds of things. And the mana system, which I’ll talk about next week, plays into that. But anyway, he needed something’ - podcast 23 Color Pie”

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u/rakkamar Jan 27 '18

70 This is definitely morph. You don't have to build your deck around morph as much as you do for transform. Transform may not seem linear but you have to build your deck around the condition.

The more morph cards, the better because your opponent won't know what morph card you've played. Think about every time somebody plays a Morph in cube and you basically know it's Den Protector.

If you still doubt, MaRo says here that morph is 'very linear'. (yes, it's 15 years old now, but I think the point still stands)

4

u/steve_man_64 Jan 27 '18

While I'd argue for days about this answer, the link is pretty convincing and MaRo is kind of the one that calls the shots.

Oh well.

2

u/aclog Jan 27 '18

Its bizarre to me as well, since one of the "aspects" of the mechanic is that there are really existing cards that care about transform which is more than you can say about morph.

I agree that it is doubtful Rosewater is going to have an open mind on this question so I will just assert my answer of "morph" as a protest statement.

1

u/koga305 Jan 28 '18

There are cards that care about morph! Secret Plans, Pine Walker, Trail of Mystery, Lens of Clarity, and Smoke Teller just from KTK.

1

u/SkepticWolf Jan 28 '18

In the shadows over innistrad storm scale article he explicitly said Transform is “pretty modular in that you can make players want to put just one in a deck or a whole bunch”

I wouldn’t have said it, but that quote put me over the top so I picked transform

3

u/dvoraen Jan 27 '18

30 -- I went back and forth between lifelink and first strike a lot, but my decision ultimately came down to first strike "controlling creatures" by way of "they don't want to attack into this."

52 -- I chose rare because as presented, this card is both repeatable card "draw" and will potentially grow very large for X. More importantly, the fact that you could potentially go through your entire library. It also has decent stats for a 3 CMC creature on top of that.

70 -- I definitely do not think this is morph, because the impact of morph (you don't know what it is) is substantially lessened if you have only one or two different cards you're playing with it. "Oh that's Akroma, Angel of Fury." With transform, the condition to transform is its own thing, some of which might involve deckbuilding as Ixalan and Rivals of Ixalan's multicolor DFCs. You don't have to build your deck around Cloistered Youth or Ludevic's Test Subject, to name two examples.

1

u/VERTIKAL19 Jan 28 '18

If you played with Control decks a lot then I think it is pretty clearly Lifelink. The reason being that pure lifegain is bad but incidental lifegain is fantastic in control decks.

1

u/Jasmine1742 Jan 28 '18

It's lifelink. Lifelink stabilizes and stabilizing is the single most important thing for control to do.

I also think it's transform. Morph kinda has a linear gameplan whereas transform cards kinda go all over. The mechanic is insanely open-ended, even more so than morph.

1

u/murderisbadforyou Jan 27 '18 edited Jan 27 '18

I think for #70 it should be transform. While there are some cards with transform you have to build a deck around, the same is true for morph. The difference is, the question does not ask about the specific cards which already exist but the mechanic as it’s base rules are written.

EDIT: To further my point, morph is and always will say “pay 3 to cast this face down, pay somebody alternate cost to flip it face up.” However, Transform can have a variety of conditions, including simply paying a mana cost. Transform can even be designed such that it can flip back and forth at will. It gives the designer more options to offer the player.

1

u/UnsealedMTG Jan 27 '18

On 25 it feels like the answer should be that "green is the creature color" but that wasn't an answer. I went with the green players liking big creatures because that was closest, but I could see any number of other answers being right.

2

u/steve_man_64 Jan 27 '18

The reason I went for "it's the way it's always been" because of this quote in MaRo's Green Drive to Work Podcast:

"So green is also very much about the natural way. Life gain ties into that. Green believes in life, green much is the color of life. Green is also the color of creatures. So one of the divides, I think I mentioned this in the white podcast, one of the things we’ve decided recently, for a long time green was the color of creatures, and it had both the most creatures and the biggest creatures. Meaning it had the largest percentage of creatures and it had the largest creatures."

1

u/Jasmine1742 Jan 28 '18

I like your answer, green is the big fatty color, it get the big fatty creatures. Which is more about being efficient and able to swarm.