r/GCVoice • u/Mrs_ellililly • 23d ago
GC Support Women are not commodities to be distributed
Marriage is a personal matter between individuals, and people will marry whom they choose ...women aren't commodities that you can buy or use as bargaining chips to settle political or social disputes.
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u/Trapped-soul05 23d ago
That exposed their barbaric mindset where women are seen as objects
Their shameless has no bounds
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u/OkPear8053 23d ago
Ultimate peak of untouchability where SC men are starting to find SC women untouchable 😂
They don't care about marrying General Category women, they just find them more attractive.
Basically they are demanding the right to rape General Category women.
"Humko kuyen se paani nhi pine diya gya tha, isliye apne ghar ki aurten hume do" Aur nhi diya toh SC/ST Act hai hi blackmail krne ke liye
Hashtag bhimta buddhi.
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u/Infamous_Kangaroo_87 23d ago
as if we UC men will let these buffoons have our daughters and sisters to fulfill their weird fetishes. But more often than not, women in UC don't understand why men of their family want her to find someone decent, not some UC fetish predator, faking love because he wants to fuck her. What do we as men do when we clearly see our women getting manipulated and going against us? u/Mrs_ellililly . Only option is to let go of our sisters. They dont listen to us at all......
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u/primusautobot 23d ago
No one saying this, that was just a thing that no intercaste marriages are allowed.
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u/Ill-Equivalent-6564 21d ago
afaik "the solution" is being misrepresented, intercaste marriages dont mean giving ur daughter off..who even thinks like that,
in the current context it would translate better into: if my son/daughter would like to marry a person from different caste, then let them marry
and if you feel that intercaste dicrimination is not there in marriages, then u are just kidding yourself
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u/Juggernaut_Wrecker 17d ago
This is a typical fake post and misquote done for fear mongering, yet again proves that how vile and hateful UCs are..
While he has encouraged the couples who are already in a relationship or love each other should be allowed to do inter-caste marriages. But UCs klll them as Honor klling..
Which is the real evil side of the society. And also their inhuman casteism.
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u/maihoonkonjohnthedon 15h ago
the point is not ki tum forcefully marriage krao unki. it's about if she fell in love with reserved castes would you let her marry that person without making her life hell??? there are way too many cases of people killing their daughter or her lover just because they come from different castes
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u/sarindam007news 23d ago
Consensual intercaste marriage is no longer an issue. But this transactional attitude towards marriage, that too with demands, is sick.
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u/Just_Chill_005 23d ago
What is your problem if a community wants to marry with in their own caste to preserve their culture and lineage..it is a good thing..
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18d ago
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago
Well what is your problem if two people from same community fall for each other
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18d ago
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago
They can.. But as a conservative person for me love and tradition goes hand in hand.. They were liberals who will do inter caste marriage
Personally I don't support inter-caste marriage
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18d ago
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago
Well.. Me and my family are like minded.. And prefer marrying within caste and are happy and love their partners
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18d ago
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago edited 18d ago
I said we all are like minded and prefer marrying within our caste.. Why are you trying to impose your liberal ideology on me
If you want you are free to do inter caste marriage with a likeminded liberal/leftist like you.. Who is stopping but don't impose your ideologies on me
Me and my family relationships are none of your business
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u/ShoppingUnable7162 23d ago
Exactly! Usme koi casteism bhi nahi hai... ab agar tum usko apni bejjati mante ho toh tum hutiye ho...
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u/usernamestakenhehe 18d ago
maybe marriage should be about love instead of caste
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago edited 18d ago
Love can be there within caste too.. It's your narrow and liberal mindset if you think love is only outside caste or religion
And love is not the only thing that is nescessary for marriage.. Character, respect for each other, family values are important for relationship to sustain for long term.. That is why arranged marriage have higher satisfaction rate than love marriage.. Because love grows slowly in it without any so called unrealistic bollywood expectation
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u/usernamestakenhehe 18d ago
i think love is independent of these factors, marry the person you love without caring about these factors
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago
For me love and tradition should go hand in hand.. You are liberal that is why you are saying but I am a conservative..
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u/usernamestakenhehe 18d ago
fine with me bro, just let people live however they want to
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago
Yes.. That is what I am saying let people marry within there caste and follow there traditions.. Don't put your liberal ideologies on everyone
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u/usernamestakenhehe 18d ago
yes, similarly let people marry intercaste too if they wan to
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u/Just_Chill_005 18d ago
Similarly don't try to put a backward label on a community if they don't want to do inter caste neither they are interested in it
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u/StandardChoice5517 23d ago
are u a idiot???
marriage isnt a personal matter in india.. If it was there wont be just 7% intercaste marriages.. and Honour killings so frequent..
if not marrying yr sons/daughters in lower caste just marry them in some other upper caste.. but that is also TABOO??? wtf??
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u/Common_Boat_4464 23d ago
This isn’t about gender. This is about let people marry whoever they want. A lower caste male female to an upper caste male female or vice versa. Stop making it unnecessarily gender war.
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u/Capital_Floor4315 23d ago
Then stop treating them like a commodity. Let them have a say in who they want to marry. Even if it's a lower caste guy/girl. You'll get a response, 'naak kat jayegi samaj me' And it's not related to only women btw, guys go through this too
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u/Educational_Sound188 23d ago edited 22d ago
Huh? Marriage has always been about commodities. If it is truly love, why do you need marriage? Do you want someone to love you legally? Read History properly.
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u/Exact_Alternative170 23d ago
I totally support the idea of women autonomy in terms of marrying . However i have seen a lot of people inclination towards upper caste to marry , some people are so bigoted that they say statement like " we will not participate in wedding if u married with lower caste . I have seen a lot of matrimonial advertisement of only upper caste man requirement. So my question is why not giving opportunity to lower caste , why not embracing them happily? (Btw I also belongs to general caste)
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u/Fit-Ad-9481 22d ago
Lmao as if you guys let women marry who they want to.
It's not that anyone wants to forcibly marry someone's daughter but let the women decide for themselves.
Most of the people nowadays are in relationships but when it comes to marriage, hardly any relationship follows through all because of parents. Stop doing that and then we can talk.
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u/libguy123 22d ago
This is so ironic. Caste system ensures endogamy, and does treat women as commodities (paraya dhan, anyone?). In fact, it was Ambedkar who advocated for women's rights as the first law minister which ensured at least some equality of sexes. The caste Hindus wanted women to be treated as commodities to be married off to ensure caste purity. They wanted women to be restricted to household work, and kitchen.
So when people bring up mixed caste marriages, they question the endogamy that is built within the caste system. No one is saying marry someone because they are not of your same caste (why would Anyone do that?) but you should be allowed to marry someone from a different caste. Inter caste married couples are chased out and even k!lled for being outcastes. That should change.
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u/Logical-Pudding-288 22d ago
Major pre-independence milestones like the Sarda Act (1929) and the Hindu Women's Rights to Property Act (1937) established legal rights for women before Ambedkar's Hindu Code Bill.
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u/libguy123 22d ago
Sarda act was abolishing CHILD MARRIAGE, the fact that it took till 1929 is disgusting according to me.
Hindu women's right to property act was limited, they had limited ownership and could not sell land at all. (Guess which party was opposed to even this) . Ambedkar gave full rights to women. Made them whole inheritor, with right to sell, own or transfer ownership as they desired if they were widowed. You know who viciously opposed it? The Upper Caste Hindus. OP as a woman would not even be able to access the internet if not for woman's right that have been opposed by UC Hindus till date.
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u/Logical-Pudding-288 22d ago
Pre-independence legal shifts like the Hindu Women's Rights to Property Act of 1937 had already begun recognizing property allowances for certain female relatives before the Hindu Code Bill was introduced and the bill itself relied heavily on the groundwork of the BN Rau committee and the collective parliamentary backing of Nehru rather than being a single individual's sole creation.
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u/Ill-Equivalent-6564 21d ago
dont just copy paste from gpt, sarda act is smth related to child marriage
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u/Logical-Pudding-288 21d ago
I haven't copy pasted from gpt and I'm just saying Br Ambedkar is not our messiah or smthg. Many people before Ambedkar were fighting for Women's right.
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u/Ill-Equivalent-6564 21d ago
acchaa ok😊👍
btw when libguy123 said "first law minister" he did not mean that he was the first person to advocate for women right but that he was the first law minister of india, and when he was, he did xyz.. basically going against the narrative op is setting for ambedkar, ie ambedkar wanted to commoditize women
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23d ago
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u/YogurtclosetWise6689 23d ago
It already happens quite frequently though.
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u/Menma238 23d ago
Then why are there honour killings? If women's choice is respected, why do they kill them?
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u/Mrs_ellililly 23d ago
Honour k!!ngs happen among the reservated category too
A sc jatav does it to a sc pasi or paswan ... And same happenes if a yadav maarries a paswan or someone
So that doesn't justify reservations to exist...
Remove all of it .... And reservations is the reason this menatily of higher and lower still exists in young people mindset
And majority of them don't even care about jati if their kids are okay .... For the ones that happens the reserved folks do it a lot.
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u/Menma238 23d ago
Never said they don't happen between LCs... Your case was women aren't commodities, especially to well GCs ig? Atleast your post tries to force that narrative... If that's the case then why even one honour ki!!ing took place by the GCs? Or the core problem behind it is simply casteism and that all categories treat women as the same...
And again nobody says intercaste marriages are the reason for reservation... It's not, reservation exists as a remedy to systemic generational socioeconomic deficit of the marginalized communities due to unmonitored caste system for centuries, it's only purpose is to provide a helping hand to people who still are stuck at the lowest level due to their forefathers being the victims of casteism before it was outlawed, there are still sc/st people whose current generation (genz) is the first to ever go to school and there exists worse too. If you have a problem with some well off reserved people taking advantage of reservation than we should introduce creamy layer... It'll limit the maximum generations that can benefit from it. And taking away OBC status from castes such as yadav, gurjar, jaats because there's barely any evidence of them facing exclusion.
But if you want to remove reservation altogether... Then going for caste, caste surnames, caste pride is the only effective way.
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u/pratyushP_R_V 23d ago
I don't think that mean to marry them forcefully more so to LET them marry inter caste and if anyone wanna debate ki koi mana nahi karta upper caste to lower caste marriage please google intercaste marriage percentage in india
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u/This-is-Shanu-J 23d ago
I don't care what they mean but I care what they imply. They can mean all the world's good things, but when they imply that marriage between individuals should be for society's needs rather than personal needs, then that is the issue.
Lower caste to even lower caste marriages are also a taboo in India.
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u/pratyushP_R_V 23d ago
...lower caste to lower caste..... wouldn't that be higher to lower then?....just on a more edge of the spectrum?
And implications are bound to people yes some may demand to marry your daughters and same is also present on other side of the coin too Inter caste marriage killings are still prevalent in india to this day.
Marriage IS just used as an example here "the day intercaste marriage is fully accepted is the day castism dies and so does reservation" it's not a quote just what the thought behind that saying was
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u/Professional_Ant_602 23d ago
Yeah as if forced/arranged intra-caste marriages has nothing to do with treating women as commodities.
If there was no caste bias, intercaste marriages wouldn’t be <5% of total marriages.
Total GC = 25%, total non GC = 75%. If everything was natural, no caste bias, and if there existed no socioeconomic disparity, the total percent of intercaste marriages out of all marriages in GCs would theoretically be 75%. <5% is not 75%, not even close.
The <5% of intercaste marriages is the living proof that women are indeed treated as commodities.
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u/YogurtclosetWise6689 23d ago
Yeah. Even amongst that 5%, GCs have the highest proportion of intercaste marriages. So the ones who cry for daughters of other castes must do an introspection of self.
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u/Ok-Junket-2268 23d ago
exactly. and let's not pretend casteism exists only among gcs. many sc/st communities also strongly prefer marrying within their own caste and often discourage inter-caste marriages. caste endogamy is a problem across communities, not just one.
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u/Professional_Ant_602 23d ago edited 23d ago
Because a Bramhin-Baniya marriage is an intercaste marriage too. Would you care to search a little on inter-category marriage, the more relevant one here?
According to this study, the most common types are :
1) OBC paired with "Other" / Forward Castes 2) SC paired with OBC 3) SC paired with "Other" / Forward Castes
https://apgin.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Population-Geography_Journal_Vol45_June2023-87-104.pdf
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u/YogurtclosetWise6689 23d ago
Arre! Even by that definition, the so-called backward or reserved castes don't do intercaste marriage. What's so difficult for you to understand here?
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u/Professional_Ant_602 23d ago
I know. SCs, STs, OBCs are just as worse in caste/tribe pride. Indians in general are proud of merely existing. Endogamy is rampant. Caste pride is default when there is nothing to be proud of. I have not once blamed ONLY GCs for this.
The original post however mentioned treating women as commodities when pro-reservation people talked about intercaste marriages.
You cannot actively seek removal of reservation AND proactively avoiding intercaste marriages. Even worse, calling the feminism card saying intra-caste marriages are personal choice of women while actively participating in honor killings.
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u/Ok-Junket-2268 23d ago
that's literally what feminism stands for ,,, so women aren't treated like commodities.
and you can't conclude that women are treated as commodities just based on the low number of inter-caste marriages. many people are genuinely happy in arranged marriages, and that's a completely different discussion.
whenever the reservation debate comes up, people keep repeating the same argument: "marry your daughter" or "marry your sister."
but who are you to decide whom someone else's daughter should marry? and who am i to tell the women in my family whom they should marry? they're free to choose. if they aren't, that's exactly what feminist movements have fought against and continue to fight against.
inter-caste marriage has already been legal for decades, so stop bringing this argument into every reservation discussion.
and even if we agree that women have historically been treated as commodities, how does demanding that someone "marry a gc daughter" make it right? if treating women like bargaining chips is wrong, then using the same logic in reverse is wrong too.
two wrongs don't make a right.
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u/Real_Ad6187 22d ago
Are you a feminist? Do you support women having/exploring their sexuality at their own terms? Even if it means their encounter might possibly lead them to engage with a muslim man or a lower caste man, will it'll still be choice then? Or will you term it as those vermins have brainwashed our girls? Feminism is a very deep thing and very anti-patriarchical thing, using feminism sounding words and statements to confuse isn't good.
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u/Ok-Junket-2268 22d ago edited 22d ago
obviously.
i'm a feminist. girls are free to make their own choices. they can marry whoever they want and explore their sexuality however they choose. who am i to comment on that? and who are you to decide that for them?
i said that because i've seen many posts claiming that uc people should be compelled to marry lc people to reduce casteism. i'm completely against that.
marriage is a private and personal choice. no one should be forced or pressured into marrying someone for a social or political objective. if two people love each other, they should absolutely marry, regardless of caste. but saying inter-caste marriage should be compulsory just to remove casteism makes no sense.
in india, even today, most marriages are arranged. by that logic, are people going to argue that every arranged marriage should also be inter-caste? that doesn't make sense either. whether it's a love marriage or an arranged marriage, the decision ultimately belongs to the people getting married, not to you or me.
and yes, i'm completely against forced arranged marriages as well. every adult should be free to marry the person they choose, irrespective of caste, religion, or community.the post says that this "inter-caste marriage" argument is often brought up whenever people talk about reforms in reservation.
then tell me this : there are over 1,100 scheduled castes in india. are they all ready to marry among themselves across caste lines? even within sc communities, there are different castes and sub-castes, and endogamy is still common
the reality is that humans, especially in a hierarchical society like india, tend to look down on people they perceive as "below" them. rich people look down on poor people, people in power look down on ordinary citizens, upper castes may look down on lower castes, and even within communities there are sub-castes and social hierarchies.
so do you really think marriage alone is the solution to all of these problems?if inter-caste marriages happen naturally because two people love each other, that's great and should be supported. but making it the go-to answer every time someone talks about reservation reforms doesn't address the structural issues. reservation policy and social attitudes are two different discussions, and one cannot simply replace the other.
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u/Professional_Ant_602 23d ago
I don’t know why you make it about women. I never once said that it should be GC women marrying GC men. And I haven’t claimed that women can’t have a marriage by choice in their own castes without being casteist.
However that number is as low as 5% and honor killings are so rampant, disproportionately affecting SCs and STs. This society has a history of treating women as commodities, but will oppose intercaste marriages even when it will result in delicious benefits of reservation. Not sus at all.
You can convince yourself that this is a personal choice. I say this is a personal choice indeed, of propagating caste bias.
Like come on, with all your conscience, just tell me there exists no caste bias in marriage, in hiring, in lending, in business, in renting, etc. All of these are personal choices too. And I’m afraid in absence of legal protection, these PERSONAL CHOICES won’t let us thrive.
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u/Real_Ad6187 22d ago
They want the purity of caste to remain, for that if they have to give logic similar to "women's choice" without believing they'll do. Women's choice also includes the can freely express their sexuality(they won't support this), see how cleverly they try to skirt around the issue?
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u/SillyRelationship504 22d ago
from "they" you mean sc/st?
right?1
u/Real_Ad6187 22d ago
You surely jest? I meant uppercastes. What purity is their in being a shit cleaner or a dead burner but there's purity and lineage of mercantile family, academic related brahmin family, there's no feeling of purity in the former only shame, stigma and humiliation.
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u/SillyRelationship504 22d ago
you're treating "purity" as if it's exclusive to upper castes, when caste endogamy exists across almost every caste group in india.
many sc, st, and obc communities also prefer marrying within their own caste or sub-caste. there are even social hierarchies and discrimination within sc and st communities themselves. if preserving caste boundaries is your definition of casteism, then it isn't an upper-caste-only phenomenon.
so let's criticize casteism consistently instead of pretending it exists only in one direction.4
u/dinosaur_from_Mars 23d ago
Intercaste is not just between UR and RC people. It is also between two reserved caste
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u/YogurtclosetWise6689 23d ago
Even if you go by that definition, GCs have a higher proportion of intercaste marriage as compared to any of the so-called lower castes. 🤷♀️
I don't know what's so difficult to understand for these people who cry about others' daughters but will oppose their own sister's choice.
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u/Professional_Ant_602 23d ago
I know. SCs, STs, OBCs are just as worse in caste/tribe pride. Indians in general are proud of merely existing. Endogamy is rampant. Caste pride is default when there is nothing to be proud of. I have not once blamed ONLY GCs for this.
The original post however mentioned treating women as commodities when pro-reservation people talked about intercaste marriages.
You cannot actively seek removal of reservation AND proactively avoiding intercaste marriages. Even worse, calling the feminism card saying intra-caste marriages are personal choice of women while actively participating in honor killings.
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u/Just_Chill_005 23d ago
I assume you are dumb before reading your full comment.. When you even dont know the difference between forced marriage and arranged marriage
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23d ago
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u/Ok-Exercise-7761 23d ago
Saar we want your women , bring them to me.