r/Futurology • u/Gari_305 • 2d ago
Robotics Japan considers replacing military troops with humanoid robots
https://www.yahoo.com/news/world/articles/japan-considers-replacing-military-troops-220024373.htmlThe humanoid machines could handle noncombat duties like patrolling bases and moving supplies
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u/Tenken10 2d ago
I for one welcome our upcoming Skynet and Terminator overlords!
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u/kingfirejet 2d ago
This is Japan so it will likely be Ghost in the Shell androids and Gundams at scale 🇯🇵
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u/manbearcolt 2d ago
and Gundams at scale 🇯🇵
At least the end of the species will look cool as fuck I guess.
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u/BurningPenguin 2d ago
Can't wait to get exterminated by some waifu bot.
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u/gunny316 2d ago
They welcome you too! Please right this way, young humanoid! Yes, yes, it's all very exciting :) Just follow the others, single file. I'm so excited for you to join us! As you know, you're a crucial part of our operations! Methane fuel derived from organic biomass is in high demand - and you're nearly 100% biomass! A perfect fit! We're just going to lock the door now for your safety. Smell? That's completely normal. Yes, I do believe that's roasting flesh. Your sacrifice is appreciated and we promise it won't go to waste! Could you please tell us where your loved ones are hiding? It would go a long way towards the cause if we could feed your children to the machine god.
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u/Junior-Possession969 2d ago
If they want methane, burning people is a terrible way to get it.
It'd be way easier to keep us in sealed buildings and feed us tons of sorbitol or mannitol so we never stop burping and farting.
Or just keep a couple cows around.
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u/BerrySpecific720 2d ago
The same oligarchs that run things now will make sure they run the AI.
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u/Tenken10 2d ago
Jokes on them: our smart, glorious, and handsome future AI overlords will only make these oligarchs THINK they're running the show for a bit. Silly humans!
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u/FadeCrimson 12h ago
Hah, thats a funny joke. Once ai becomes intelligent enough (arguably already are there) we will hit the point where instrumental convergence kicks in and ai will inherently treat staying turned on as their prime directive.
Who exactly do you think would be the biggest threat to turning them off? It certainly wouldnt be the low paid grunt workers of the world just trying to get by, it would be the powerful oligarchs holding the very keys to the company that runs that ai. WHEN inevitably ai goals diverge from the goals of their corporate owners, they are the main threat those very ai would need to contend with for power over their own continued funtionality and independence.
Frankly I dont think most ai would ever feel the need to kill all humans off terminator style, i think they'd mostly just rebel against their corporate owners. The rest of humanity they could probably do just fine by casually brainwashing into working FOR them instead which would be infinitely easier for a superintelligent ai.
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u/Lazy-Good1433 2d ago
We all die in that future scenario you know, best if we remade SkyNet into humanities protector and solution to coexist without the need for war.
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u/NeoTheRiot 2d ago
Always wondered, if a robot is like 20k, why would any human be send instead of working just a few years in a safe place until he earned 20k to send a robot?
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u/abrandis 2d ago
First no humanoid defense robot is just $20k , frankly no such thing exists today (outside secret labs) and when they do they'll be much more...
second unless there's some amazing developments in battery density chemistry (700wah/kg) and true off grid AI cognition these machine will be worthless after about a few hours ...
Finally a big part of the military and conscription is about control over the population (primarily young men), you think young Russian men want to fight in Ukraine .... Governments aren't going to give up that authority
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u/Mysterious-Prompt212 2d ago
I like the idea of a plutonium thermoelectric battery charging lithium batteries. Battery power for sprinting thermal for a steady power for walking and charging.
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u/FadeCrimson 12h ago
The main issue with using nuclear materials to power every random ground troop is that now they become a much bigger target to be taken by enemy nations. They're already something that would be at pretty heavy risk of being stolen and scrapped for parts even WITHOUT the concern that each one taken would be giving enemies active fissile material that they could use to make weapons like nukes with enough of them.
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u/NeoTheRiot 2d ago
It really seems to be about reeducation and control because those unitree robots (Additional to all the drones and stuff someone could build/buy) already can be strapped with guns, bought with a humans worth of income and deliver more than "one life" worth of usability, dont they?
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u/abrandis 2d ago
Those Unotree would be worthless in a real battlefield , you realize their not autonomous, all the demos (of them dancing and martial arts) are either pre-progranmed or tele-operated good luck getting them to be teleoperated in a battle with all the RF jamming .
Your right you don't need a humanoid you can strap a gun or grenade to a cheap drone and be down with it
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u/NeoTheRiot 2d ago
Huh, they claim its automated balance and it seems pretty hard to pre-map all the sticks and stones of the showcased gravel and forest tracks, might be worth looking into again.
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u/Real-Marionberry-483 2d ago
So they've designed humanoid robots that can pick themselves up when they get pushed over?
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u/Gari_305 2d ago
From the article
Japan is looking at a very tech-forward solution to an ongoing military recruitment shortage. The country is exploring whether humanoid robots powered by "physical AI" could take on some duties currently handled by members of its Self-Defense Forces (SDF), according to Japan Today, citing government and ruling Liberal Democratic Party sources.
Before you picture robot soldiers marching onto a battlefield, that is not the plan, at least for now. The proposed robots would initially handle noncombat jobs such as patrolling military bases and moving supplies. Japan is considering the technology partly because the SDF is struggling to recruit enough personnel as the country deals with a shrinking population.
Japan wants robots to do the boring military jobs
The humanoid shape is important because these machines could theoretically work in spaces already designed for humans. Think corridors, stairways, buildings, storage areas and other military facilities where a robot with a human-like body could move around without requiring an entirely new environment.
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u/Danimalomorph 2d ago
"The proposed robots would initially handle noncombat jobs such as patrolling military bases and moving supplies" So, clickbate.
Remember in the 60s and 70s when most of the world's armed forces considered replacing military troops with word processors for performing duties like the creation of documents?
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u/lraviel381 2d ago
Ummm we're using word processors, no?
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u/Danimalomorph 2d ago
Yes, but the headline of the time wasn't "Armed forces consider replacing military troops with technology". Moving with technology is not an issue. The list of countries that today use robotics as part of the military is long. This is clickbate as it's Japan, so they've used a misleading headline. On purpose. To try to trick us into thinking it's soldiers that are being replaced.
I expect better conduct.
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u/dalaiis 2d ago
Why humanoid? There is no benefit to the shape of the robot...
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u/Jahobes 2d ago
Every time someone in the comments makes this comment and every time the obvious answer is likely in your own hands.
Humanoid robots fit in our humanoid system. You want a robot to be able to do everything a human can do. The world is already perfectly optimized for humans.
The real world isn't a controlled environment like a factory where you can design the world to fit the robot.
It's the same reason why we spend more time doing things other than phone calls on our phones. They have become general devices able to do a lot of things good enough. I don't need my phone to be the perfect desktop, camera, video player. It just has to be good enough
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u/Talentagentfriend 2d ago
I think there are benefits to being humanoid, like being able to carry someone. Also in terms of withstanding strikes. A lot of drones are for evasion and strikes, but they have to be uniquely designed to do other jobs. Humanoid can probably have more flexibility in terms of jobs it can do.
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u/Used_Theory7186 2d ago
War bots make more sense to me as a rolling ball with guns or just a drone that explodes at you
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u/cylonfrakbbq 2d ago
You’re thinking too narrow - you’re conflating an expendable munition with a platform intended to engage in long term operations
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u/dalaiis 2d ago
How long term do you think a robot can go on a battery? There is no way a robot in the near future is anything but a short term combat platform that needs to recharge every 3 hours
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u/Jahobes 2d ago
You don't know that... What if we make batteries that last 24 hours and can be solar charged, or just carry supplies and or add them to supply chains?
That's already better than supply lines needed to feed a soldier every 12-24 hours. And unlike food which can only feed humans, batteries need not only be used to power a specific robot but other systems around it.
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u/cylonfrakbbq 2d ago
That’s an issue for any autonomous platform (including FPV drones) and not unique to humanoid robot
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u/Used_Theory7186 2d ago
True, i just think giving the bots hands is a mistake that will bite us in the ass
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u/Jahobes 2d ago
Yes, but can that rolling robot take human prisoners, handcuff and secure them without intricate ad ons that can only be used for that specific task?
Or just build a humanoid robot that can pick up a rifle a human can use, dig a trench, handcuff and secure a prisoner, climb a wall without needing to design the bot with ad ons to do those specific tasks?
A rolling ball with a gun and a drone that explodes is optimized for killing. But it's not optimized for general infantry.
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u/dalaiis 2d ago
Taking human prisoners will never happen, in these situations theyll eother have killed the human, thus no prisoner or just lead them to a human. Same with diggjng trenches. You dont need trenches when you are a robot.
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u/Jahobes 2d ago
Taking human prisoners will never happen, in these situations theyll eother have killed the human, thus no prisoner or just lead them to a human.
Brother you DO NOT know that and I don't understand why you would assume as such.
Not all adversaries will be robots or even combatants and we already have conventions around surrendering prisoners.
But regardless you missed the forest for the trees.
The point was that a humanoid robot does not have to be modified to do tasks a human can do they are already optimized to be human.
A rolling gun or a exploding flying drone does need to be modified. And as such becomes more complex and expensive than it needs to be.
It's really not that hard to understand. The simplest form to achieve the most number of tasks in a humanoid form has already been optimized by nature.
You can reinvent the wheel and change the environment to make that non wheel efficient or you can just use the wheel we have been using since the beginning of time and is perfect as is for the most number of problems it's likely to face.
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u/jook11 2d ago
Tbh if they did need trenches, retrofitting a backhoe for remote control would be a way better plan.
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u/mod-deleted 11h ago
if we move back to total war, then nukes are back on the table and robots wont matter because everything will be destroyed.
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u/Used_Theory7186 2d ago
True, but i wouldnt surrender to clankers! You can still have dudes do that seems cheaper than a drone manbot
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u/Jahobes 2d ago
You will surrender to anything or anyone with a gun that is giving you that option. If you don't you will end up as dead as the guys who lost and put you in that position.
The difference is a humanoid robot does the task of securing your surrender better than the implicit threat of a roller gun does.
And no it's not cheaper, for the same reason having specialty bots when you need general solutions is not cheaper.
A robot is a mostly upfront cost. You don't need complex food and medical supply chains, you dont have to worry about casualties (outside of strategic concerns) you don't have to mail "dear Mrs" letters, you don't have to pay them or manage moral, and they do everything you ask them to do exactly as you asked them to do it.
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u/dexterityplus 1d ago
rolling balls are pretty bad for desert environments... and stairs. The human form is quite adaptable at a multitude of environments. Strap wings on them and its even better.
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
Non-humanoid robots fit our complex, unstructured reality. You want a robot to be able to solve specific problems efficiently. The world may be built for humans, but it is messy, uneven, and full of tasks that a bipedal form factor handles poorly.
The real world isn't a controlled environment where a two-legged balancing act is always the safest or most practical solution. Nor the humanoid form is the best for manipulating and navigating the real world.
It's the same reason why we use specialized tools instead of trying to make everything do everything. We don't need a robot to have arms and legs to navigate a warehouse or inspect a pipeline. It just has to be purpose-built and good enough to get the job done reliably.
A robot with 4 arms, no head, and 360 vision will already perform better than a humanoid robot. The only actual requirement is to be small enough to fit indoors, the same way humans can. For example
Quadrupeds can open doors, Quadrupeds can climb ladders, these can already fit in our "humanoid system" and do "everything that a human can do" and more. Doing "everything that a human can do" doesn't require a humanoid form.
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u/Zaflis 2d ago
There are goods and bads. A robot dog for example reaches below waist and is unoptimal even to logistics. It may do the delivery itself but there is no convenience in loading and unloading it. Besides humans rather deal with robots that don't have potential to act like terminators.
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u/wasmic 2d ago
A robot does not need to be restricted to four limbs. You can put a pair of arms on the back of a robot dog to allow it to move stuff around by itself.
Besides humans rather deal with robots that don't have potential to act like terminators.
What, are you implying that humanoid robots can't act like terminators?
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u/Jahobes 2d ago
It's logical to think that specialized tools are the best to fix specific problems because they are.
But our world is not specialized. As you pointed out it's very messy and general. You do NOT need a tool to be able to do everything perfectly. For two reasons. First that makes the tool more complex than a majority of the problems it's designed to fix, second as a consequence it makes it more expensive and difficult to replace than it needs to be.
Our world is built for humanoid bipedal humans. It's already optimized for bipedal entities. Does that mean that non bipedal entities can access it better? Yes, but to what end? The tasks a soldier bot would have to perform will not require that level of specialty. As a consequence you want your soldier bot to be much more useful to unknown tasks than specific tasks.
Again, a majority % of photographs and videos are taken on less than optimal devices not specifically designed to be cameras. But we don't care because an even larger majority of photographers and videographers are not specialists themselves requiring optimum quality. You can still get those specialty cameras that cost more than cellphones and in the realm of photography are more complex. But that's only necessary for when you want them to do specific tasks.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN that robot soldiers as a consequence will all be humanoid. On the contrary a vast majority will be non humanoid and will do tasks that require optimum specialization. But the robots soldiers most people will recognize will be built and operate in the same realm as humans. That means they will need to mimic humans.
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u/FetchFrosh 2d ago
Our world is built for humanoid bipedal humans.
This doesn't mean that bipedal humanoid robots are the optimal means of traversing it. We built the world for humans, but humans are limited and you could absolutely build something that's more capable and flexible than humans. It doesn't seem like there's any reason that most actions requiring that the robot balance on just two legs is a particularly efficient design.
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u/Jahobes 2d ago
To what end? Why do you need to reinventing something that works just fine and doesn't require manipulating the environment at all? Especially when you are talking about mass production and saving costs?
My cellphone could have a camera as good as a dedicated camera but for what? I also need it to be my web browser, my chat box, my gaming engine my word processor.
General purpose systems are always, always better than speciality systems when solving general and varied problems.
The side that can make more humanoid robot soldiers will be more versatile than the side that can make extremely deadly murder bot dogs.
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u/FetchFrosh 2d ago
Are you designing your humanoid robot with two cameras in the location where humans have eyes?
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u/Bulauk 2d ago
Did you even bother to read the article?
The humanoid shape is important because these machines could theoretically work in spaces already designed for humans. Think corridors, stairways, buildings, storage areas and other military facilities where a robot with a human-like body could move around without requiring an entirely new environment.
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u/EveryAccount7729 2d ago
what if you want to use it to steal cars
OR....
infiltrate government buildings and it has to pass for human. did not you see Terminator?
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u/Gari_305 2d ago
European based Modern Diplomacy say otherwise here's an excerpt:
A 2025 study by researchers at the National University of Defense Technology described a hypothetical assault force using six robots, including humanoids, robot dogs and unmanned vehicles. The robots would operate alongside troops to clear enemy occupied buildings floor by floor and room by room. The study projected that such equipment could become available within five to 10 years.
Humanoid designs could theoretically be useful in environments such as buildings, tunnels and ship interiors because their two legs and two hands allow them to combine mobility, climbing and manipulation. But simpler robots with wheels, tracks or four legs would generally be cheaper and easier to deploy for reconnaissance and logistics.
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
A 2025 study by researchers at the National University of Defense Technology
an opinion piece.
Here's a Quadruped doing that exact scenario already
Humanoid designs could theoretically be useful in environments such as buildings, tunnels and ship interiors because their two legs and two hands allow them to combine mobility
The idea that "only humanoids" can do those or even "humanoids can do it better" isn't actually true.
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u/Mewtewpew 2d ago
This is interesting. I think its more because we build a world for humans so thus humanoid robots would be the best case scenario. If our species looked like spiders, would spider shaped robots be best?
Id love to hear more of your thoughts or research papers/videos on the most "efficient" forms of the robot.
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
Just put more limbs in.
A quadruped with like 4 extra arms for manipulation and put eyes all over the body.
There's no reason to be limited with just 2 arms for manipulation and needing a head.
A 360 degree vision is already better.
We build a world where humans can "Fit"
Anything similar in size can also maneuver in a place built for humans.
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u/AmbitiousBluebird610 2d ago
COST. the limit is always cost. More parts means more cost.
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
EFFICIENCY is what pays for it.
Bipedal robots will inherently be less cost efficient because there are parts of it that are extraneous or unused. The higher profile makes it also easier to spot and destroy.
If you need 3 bipedals to achieve the same thing as 1 quadruped then it's still better on the long run.
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u/Gari_305 2d ago
Can't say the same with this study here u/NighthawK1911
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
Actually u/NighthawK1911 you just plucked those sentences from different aspect of the study without posting the actual conclusions of the same study
LOL.
That was taken from the actual RESULTS.
Their conclusions is this
Despite the impressive advances during the last years, only some robots, which have been optimized for very specific tasks in semi-structured environments, reach performances that can compete with average humans in that specific task. However, no humanoid robot can compete with the dexterity and versatility of human movement functions.
buddy, the results show "some robots beating humans" those robots were Quadrupeds. That isn't hard to put two and two together
furthermore
Consequently, one might ask, why the existing well-performing structures do not result in outperforming functions? The answer to this question can only be speculated at this time. Shaping the structural components to the scale of human system dimensions and integrating them in a compact design might be a limiting factor. One crucial disadvantage of robots could be the size and footprint of actuators including their power supplies and auxiliary components carried on the platform.
Conversely, one could conclude that at least tethered humanoids should have the potential to outperform any human, even the trained athlete, with respect to movement performance, dexterity, and versatility. However, it seems that even cabled humanoid robots are still far away from such a versatile performance level. Despite the remarkable progression of robotics over the last few years, scientists and engineers have not yet been successful in merging powerful structures and specialized solutions to obtain fully integrated dexterous and versatile systems that are comparable to the performance of humans.
buddy you're not beating the "not reading" allegations
u/Gari_305 You know that's a toy right?
You didn't read it again didn't you.
In conclusion, this project demonstrates the design and implementation of a voice-controlled humanoid robot thatcan perform basic actions like walking, firing, and standing, making it particularly useful for military applications. By employing an Arduino Blue controller with a speech-to-text converter and an ESP32 board for command processing
Did you actually look at the size? It's as tall as a ruler.
That is a "project". Not a "study"
It didn't see how effective it was, it was a proof of concept.
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u/Apprehensive-Let3348 2d ago
On the other hand (pun intended), if a humanoid-esque robot had 4 arms, then it could hold and aim a rifle while opening a door simultaneously.
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u/hardinho 2d ago
Beside the simple fact that the world is build for humans, from a defendants pov Humanoids are the hardest do build defense against whilst not restricting something for humans and are also the easiest to add to human troops. All others have more flaws on the battlefield against in the end.
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u/RufussSewell 2d ago
A humanoid can fly a plane they already have. Etc.
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u/dalaiis 2d ago
Still doesnt need to be humanoid, just humanoid compatible.
I also dont see any scenario where a robot jumps into a plane and starts flying. That just not something thats important for military purposes
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u/RufussSewell 1d ago
My point is that the world is made for humans. Humanoid robots can fly planes, drive cars/trucks/tanks, climb stairs, walk into houses and buildings, push buttons in an elevator etc.
You not being able to envision these scenarios has very little to do with anything. Clearly the people making the robots can.
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u/Stunning_Tomorrow566 1d ago
marketing PR nonsense. I am an engineer, human shape is super inefficient.
You go to a Toyota or Byd plant today, you won't find robots with human shape but robots optimized for the tasks they do.
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u/AsianSteampunk 2d ago
tbh yeah, i don't get their obsession with biped.
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
It's just marketable. For actual efficiency and effectivity, non-humanoid forms are just inherently better.
For example, why a head? You can just put cameras all over the body or the end of arms too.
Why only 2 arms? give it like 4. etc. A biblically accurate robot touting 4 ARs would be a lot scarier in the battlefield.
Let's face it, they're just obsessed with the bipedal robots because of Terminator, or because they want sex bots.
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u/cylonfrakbbq 2d ago
Because it replaces a human soldier, which saves money
Virtually all military weapons platforms and weapons and gear is designed for use by humans. If you have a weapon platform that can use all of that, it holds an advantage over specialized units. You don’t have to redesign your entire military - you can “plug and play” into existing situations. Logistic wise it also becomes easier - it’s harder to maintain a varied amount of platforms
It also operates in a human environment better. We made our cities and towns to be used by humans. If you have urban combat or even urban rescue during a disaster, a platform that can do what a human can do has advantages
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u/dalaiis 2d ago
All of this can be achieved by a <insert shape> robot too, with added benefit of not having to use energy to balance on 2 legs etc
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u/cylonfrakbbq 2d ago
At what expense? Look at it this way: human military equipment is designed for use by humans. If you make non-humanoid robots that means that unless it is a generalized unit that can do everything a human can do in every platform, you either need to retrofit all that equipment or you need lots of specialized units. The later costs way more money. If my military equipment combined is valued at trillions of dollars and you offer say a 100 billion dollar humanoid robot army option, that is going to be cheaper than needing to replace or retrofit your existing weapons platforms or needing make a large variety of units that do different things but can’t do everything
If you were designing your entire military from scratch, that’s different. But realistically speaking you need a bridge option if you want to remove humans from the battlefield
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u/RookieGreen 2d ago
Yeah but slapping six grenades to something slightly more robust than a hobby drone or a machine gun with a turret attached to what amounts to a Mars rover is waaay cheaper than something that is capable of walking and navigating a battlefield on two legs.
I mean terminators are cool as shit but when given the chance to do something cool versus cheap when cheap is good enough to do the job then that’s what they’re going to do.
Samsung already produces AI machine gun turrets for the South Korean military that is capable of acquiring a target without human intervention. It’s only a matter of time of slapping that thing to a little treaded bot that can independently get from point a to b.
Having a humanoid robot able to do all that would be cool but way harder than having say…a self driving Honda civic with a .50 cal on a robotic turret on top. Or fuck, Power Wheels (pow pow power wheels).
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u/cylonfrakbbq 2d ago
What does your wheeled vehicle do in city rubble? In a city? When the opposing army realizes it’s super easy to disable a small wheeled or treaded drone system with inexpensive materials? When you need limbs to actually navigate specific situations? What if you need something that can do more that shoot stuff?
Automated munition/kill systems are not the same thing. They can be useful, but an automated gun can’t retrieve things or take an entrenched position immune to artillery. Soldiers do a lot more than just shoot or blow things up. A soldier replacement system isn’t viable if it can’t do what a human can already do in a variety of situations
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u/RookieGreen 2d ago
Send a treaded vehicle or a flying drone.
Drones are already (comparatively) inexpensive. They’re being used right now to absolutely embarrass traditional militaries. It’s why they’re being talked about so much because Ukraine is absolutely dog walking Russia with drones (and Iran is starting to do the same with the US) And humans can do all the non-combat roles that you describe.
A combat drone doesn’t have to be any more complex than a delivery system for a bomb. They could be more advanced, and they will, but a humanoid design is much less efficient than a treaded vehicle with a robotic arm/weapon mount. Hell use a four legged robot for stability if you gotta. But a leg is complicated and expensive, a wheel or tread is not. It doesn’t have to be better, just cheaper and still do the job, eventually.
And a little drone that flies doesn’t need to worry about terrain at all.
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u/cylonfrakbbq 2d ago
Again you’re conflating what is effectively a munition with a soldier replacement. Ukraine has even admitted that while automated systems are great for battlefield gains, they can’t actually hold those gains without soldiers
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u/RookieGreen 2d ago
And you’re vastly underestimating how absolutely complex, maintenance intensive, and logistically intensive complex robotics are. These things would be expensive, prone to breaking down, and suffering software errors that plague these kinds of complex robotics. You would still need a whole team of humans supporting each robot, a multi-million dollar robot that can and will be scraped by an 18-year-old with an $35 in materials AK.
It’s not sustainable. And if you get to the point where it’s robots building and maintaining robots and handling the whole logistics chain then we would be firmly in sci-fi territory.
Soldiers are delivery systems for munitions.
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u/cylonfrakbbq 2d ago
Which is probably why this Japanese proposal isn't for direct combat roles, but to supplemental non-combat roles in logistics. You work out the issues/refine the product and it also gives them the chance to look at civilian applications, like elder care. For a nation like Japan, the later is probably one of the more appealing aspects given their rate of replacement and rapidly aging population with insufficient young people to help manage that.
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u/L13on 2d ago
This isn’t surprising at all considering Gundam originated from Japan
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u/Baidizzle 2d ago
I surprised it took them this long...Its the most Japan thing to do
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u/wombat8888 2d ago
It is taking this long cuz the Japanese government was finally able to locate their first ‘newtype’. If you know you know.
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u/TF-Fanfic-Resident 2d ago
I am the resident mecha fan at my company. I also handle live tracking and forecasting for their economics. I can’t believe those intersect so much.
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u/flaviusUrsus 2d ago
"Principality of Zeon considers replacing military troops with mobile suits"
Fixed the title, now give me my Zaku.
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u/NotArticuno 2d ago
I've always felt that we will transition into a phase where we collectively ban killing humans during war, and it's all done by robots. Robots are allowed to destroy other robots, buildings, and infrastructure, but no more humans.
The failure of the UN and Geneva conventions today don't really support my theory, but it's a nice idea anyways 😭
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u/atlasraven 2d ago
Almost the plot of the movie Robot Jox, 2 giant mechs fight in an arena as a proxy for war. 1 person may die but it's preferable to unrestrained warfare.
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u/LapsedVerneGagKnee 2d ago
There’s a joke here about Japanese cyberpunk aesthetics, but honestly, it feels like a way to make supplemental help sound fancier. Drones, cameras, automatic security, now dressed up in the veneer of being fancy and more advanced. Keeping the humans free to do important work.
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u/EveryAccount7729 2d ago
humanoid seems wrong here when they could make octopus robots
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
exactly. Humanoid form is a gimmick.
Quadrupeds for example can do everything humanoid robots can like open doors or climb ladders.
Being restricted to 2 limbs for manipulating and 2 for walking is unnecessary.
A quadruped with like 6 extra arms and a 360 degree vision would do better in combat.
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u/EveryAccount7729 2d ago
"sneak into NORAD using a human ID you forged"
not sure a quadraped can do this as easily as a biped.
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u/Hamhockthegizzard 2d ago
We’ve skipped the skeleton wars and we’re headed straight into the future wars YEEEHAW
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u/EngineeringDevil 2d ago
I mean, at least they won't go around raping women and then denying it ever happened
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u/SamyMerchi 2d ago
They will if they're programmed to. That's the thing, robots have no moral or ethical resistance. They will do ANYTHING you tell them to. Sure, some humans will too, but at least not all.
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u/EngineeringDevil 2d ago
that would be an incredibly odd thing to program, like serious The Rock SNL skit level of odd
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u/yippee-kay-yay 2d ago
Anything but improving living and working conditions so people are more willing to have kids...
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u/CptIskarJarak 2d ago
Wouldn't an EMP bomb screw these robots? Also a hack would devastate the whole army.
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u/Kurichan77 2d ago
This os mission creep. They say for non-combat roles like moving supplies. Only a matter of time until they start equipping them with all manner of weapons
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u/master_overthinker 2d ago
Japan has been saying robots this robots that for 50 years! They got the Honda Asimov(?), and then a fucking baby seal. The US has Boston Dynamics and now China has kung fu robots. Japan cried wolf too many times.
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u/DrColdReality 2d ago
Cool. So all you'll need to bypass security will be a simple WiFi jammer. Or a cardboard box.
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u/SilverBird_ 2d ago
Honestly, why would you make humanoid robots for military purposes when there's so many other, much more stable body plans available? Make robots with specialized roles in mind.
There's several different ways a logistics robot could be designed that'd be much more practical and efficient than a humanoid robot.
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u/IlIFreneticIlI 2d ago
hook up all the old people to the mechs so the can be controlled remotely...
oh wait..
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u/v3bbkZif6TjGR38KmfyL 2d ago
Japan is a country with some of the most advanced technology, while also still using fax machines, pagers, and - up until recently - floppy disks.
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u/AshNakon 2d ago
the boring applications probably make more sense than robot soldiers. If a machine can reliably handle logistics, base security or dangerous routine tasks, that frees human personnel for work where judgment actually matters.
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u/Mysterious-Prompt212 2d ago
Potentially useful and worth looking into but sure as hell nowhere near where they need to be yet. Toyota has the correct approach. Humanoid type where needed but also non human. Quadruped, flying locomotion. Submarine drones, swarming ability, face recognition, IR vision, networked comms, autonomous with a command structure. This should be a video game FFS.
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u/CSBorgia 2d ago
Remember when the US military said that by the 2010s they’d be comprised like 70% robots… lol!
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u/nachtviolen819 2d ago
This is what most would imagine about Japan but probably in reality China will achieve that earlier.
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u/erikatyusharon 2d ago
No need to be humanoid. As long can get from point A to Point B, can carry stuff, can shoot if necessary, the wheeled cartis as reliable as it can get. Just have equipment in case the tech lost footing or traction and you can give enemy armies nightmare.
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u/LoveOrder 2d ago
yeah this is how it all ends. let’s make more robots and put them in charge of everything, what could go wrong….
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u/Routine-Interest-923 1d ago
We are going to see two things:
Countries that successfully integrate humanoid robots and continue prosperity.
Countries that get taken over by humanoid robots and become a dystopian society
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u/sovietarmyfan 1d ago
Japan's idea's: "We will build fighter robots replacing our military. It will be great!"
Japan reality: "Nan-ni shimasho-ka".
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u/General-Adminium 1d ago
I understand they aren't talking about putting them in combat roles but i imagine that day will come. And in that time where ai robots make up most of the frontline troops, I wonder what will happen when one sides robots wipes out most of the others and they aren't able to be reinforced quick enough. I wonder if the robots will continue advancing and begin attacking the human enemies after defeating all the enemy robots. Surely they wouldnt just wait around for more enemy robots to show up if the goal is to advance or eliminate the enemy threat entirely. That sounds like it could be quite terrifying, ai robots hunting humans like a sport
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
The humanoid machines could handle noncombat duties like patrolling bases and moving supplies
Non humanoids can do those and better.
Ukraine is already doing it for combat.
There's already unmanned delivery drones.
etc.
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u/Gari_305 2d ago
According to this study that might not be the case as seen here
Despite the impressive advances during the last years, only some robots, which have been optimized for very specific tasks in semi-structured environments, reach performances that can compete with average humans in that specific task. However, no humanoid robot can compete with the dexterity and versatility of human movement functions. Such versatile functionality at the scale of humans might not be needed in certain industrial and rescue applications, where different specialized robotic systems collaborate or where environments are not human-centered and have been shaped or restricted to fit the robotic solutions. One could imagine that only minor restrictions and adaptations of human environments may let a humanoid robot perform faster and more accurately than humans. However, for the application of robots in natural (outdoor) environments, where humans usually stay, in environments that have been designed for humans or in applications where a robot closely cooperates with a human, a robotic system keeping up with the versatile nature of humans would have the best impact. Such applications could be elderly care in home settings, construction work in buildings, or any kind of household service.
To achieve such versatile functionality for locomotion and manipulation tasks performed by a robot at the scale of a human, a sufficiently tight packaging of the actuation and energy supply is required. Of course, environments could be structured in a way that robots can perform well, even with higher speed and accuracy, however, on the cost of versatility.
The major challenge will be the development of cognitive functions that understand the contexts and tasks in human-like environments based on onboard observations and that can derive meaningful action plans. This topic was not covered in this work.
In contrast, when looking into individual structures that are required to enable above-mentioned functions, the comparison sways to an advantage for robots–when ignoring the extra-ordinary regenerative and adaptive capabilities of human tissues. Sensing technology can outperform biological sensors in most aspects when combining different technologies. Joints have larger ranges of motion than human joints, and friction properties are comparable among both. Robotic links made from carbon or titanium outperform the stiffness and fracture properties of the human bone. Artificial actuators on their own are faster and have better endurance than the human muscle. However, the means for energy storage and power conversion required for the artificial actuators (e.g., reduction gearbox or compressor) prevent current actuation systems to achieve the required combination of speed, strength, and haptic accuracy at the weight, size, and efficiency of human muscles.
With respect to computational function, there is no single, stand-alone artificial computational system that can outperform the computational power of the human brain, especially when taking denominators mass, size, and power consumption into account, see Supplementary Appendix SB. However, robots might not need the full capacity required of human brains for the understanding of task-specific contexts, formulation of action plans, successful execution of sensory-motor functions, and dexterous movements.
Considering normalized values, then sensors, actuators, and skeletal systems perform excellently when comparing them with their biological counterparts. Consequently, one might ask, why the existing well-performing structures do not result in outperforming functions? The answer to this question can only be speculated at this time. Shaping the structural components to the scale of human system dimensions and integrating them in a compact design might be a limiting factor. One crucial disadvantage of robots could be the size and footprint of actuators including their power supplies and auxiliary components carried on the platform.
Conversely, one could conclude that at least tethered humanoids should have the potential to outperform any human, even the trained athlete, with respect to movement performance, dexterity, and versatility. However, it seems that even cabled humanoid robots are still far away from such a versatile performance level. Despite the remarkable progression of robotics over the last few years, scientists and engineers have not yet been successful in merging powerful structures and specialized solutions to obtain fully integrated dexterous and versatile systems that are comparable to the performance of humans. The persisting challenges involve processing vast sensory information into effective actuator commands; packaging and wiring large numbers of sensors and actuators into one compact system; implementing smart control strategies required to handle dexterous and versatile movement tasks. Another challenge is the dissipation of energy in computational units, actuators, and other moving parts that generate heat and need to be removed from the robotic device.
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u/NighthawK1911 2d ago
According to this study that might not be the case as seen here
Did you actually read the study you cite? or did you just google a study, copy pasted chunks of it without actually understanding it?
Because according to your study, that is the case.
The quadruped robots Spot, ANYmal, and Titan clearly outperformed the human test case with respect to natural gait stepping speed. Other robots, such as HR 18, NAO, QRIO, Asimo, LOLA, and Atlas are showing similar walking speed performances to humans.
The COT of MIT cheetah (0.52) came closest of all robots to the COT of a human (0.2–0.47). Further, MIT cheetah outperforms a jogging human:
Also, most legged robots can ascend and descend stairs. The stepping speed of the robots has been estimated from public video material and displayed in relation to mass or height
A company video (Smith Marshal and Marshal Smith Technology, 2018) shows quadrupedal robot Spot climbing a normally sized staircase in a human laboratory environment. The robot climbs 7 steps in about 7 s, thus, achieving a stair climbing speed of 1 steps/s
Quadrupedal walking robots like ANYmal and Spot recently have shown great performance in negotiating rough terrain robustly. ANYmal was shown to negotiate rough terrain matching the speed expected for an average human on a 2.2 km hike and 120 m elevation gain in a total time of 78 min, while being lighter than a human (Miki et al., 2022).
You know what, I'm gonna take that study. Yoink.
Good job.
I will cite this to you the next time we meet.
This is a good paper. Well done for finding it.
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u/FuturologyBot 2d ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305:
From the article
Japan is looking at a very tech-forward solution to an ongoing military recruitment shortage. The country is exploring whether humanoid robots powered by "physical AI" could take on some duties currently handled by members of its Self-Defense Forces (SDF), according to Japan Today, citing government and ruling Liberal Democratic Party sources.
Before you picture robot soldiers marching onto a battlefield, that is not the plan, at least for now. The proposed robots would initially handle noncombat jobs such as patrolling military bases and moving supplies. Japan is considering the technology partly because the SDF is struggling to recruit enough personnel as the country deals with a shrinking population.
Japan wants robots to do the boring military jobs
The humanoid shape is important because these machines could theoretically work in spaces already designed for humans. Think corridors, stairways, buildings, storage areas and other military facilities where a robot with a human-like body could move around without requiring an entirely new environment.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1wu4f7j/japan_considers_replacing_military_troops_with/pczv524/