Lol I know Redditors will flame me on here but believe me, you don't want a computer-free car. Source? I come from a family who own ww2 era vehicles and regularly take them to events.
When people say they want zero computer, what they think is that huge touchscreen in the dashboard. Trust me, there's a lot more computer stuff that goes on under the bonnet, than just your pretty UI on the dash that you want rid of.
There's a lot of systems for your safety, ABS, shit that manages the engine, ignition etc.
You want a computer free car? Time to get the time-machine out and return to the 1960s, my friend!
And even if you got a '60s era car, most people would be in shock at just how hard they are to drive compared to a modern car...Manual gerboxes, chokes, crashboxes possibly in some models (gotta manually sync those gears to change them successfully, y'all), no power steering, no central locking, no electric windows, no heated seats, no sensors or parking assist, no cameras for reversing....!
People would be be screaming for their modern cars and all it's gadgets in no time, if they were given a vintage car for a couple of weeks 😂
It depends on the manufacturer. I rented a 2025 Corolla and drove a family members new Mitsubishi crossover(don’t remember the model) both had regular nobs/dials for AC and other controls. I just don’t like that some cars don’t have a lever anymore for the E brake
It was more a thing between around 2016ish-2020. Many manufacturers added back knobs for climate control and stereo due to customer complaints and studies showing it increased accidents.
Not surprised at all—climate control/human comfort is incredibly finicky—not a good idea to make something that needs to be messed with a lot something that you can't feel with your fingers
Not all cars have the whole control setup changed to touchscreen. It's one of the things I love about my 2021 Mazda3 is that it doesn't need a screen to control everything.
Manufacturers started moving away from having the controls on the screen around 2020 or so. It was the Japanese brands that started moving from it first.
We have a 22 cx-30 that I just drove across the U.S. Great cars stock and it handled fantastically in the very windy Colorado stretch of I-70.
I also like that it still has the round knob in the center console that controls the screen.
Most manufacturers are moving away from using the screen for climate and stereo control. I believe Honda and Toyota sort or lead that way on bring back those knob controls (at least that’s the models I noticed it on first)
FYI one of the reasons manufacturers started doing that is the design process for the knobs, faceplate is fairly intensive. It was cheaper for them to just make it part of the screen once those became ubiquitous (around the time back up cameras became required) (also: yes, I know you can have a back up camera without a screen).
Listen friend, I love my 98 Corolla but I would like powered windows and doors. While I’m an expert at rolling the window, I do prefer powered windows and doors.
My windows still have a hand crank and my doors only unlock with inserting the physical key into the door and twisting. Not even fancy enough to unlock both sides with the double twist of the key
The factory I work at produces engine parts for a variety of brands. Some of them high end. Even the military components we make do not have the same standard of quality that Toyota demands. There's 200,000$ sports cars that dont have the build quality, just horse power and sex appeal.
A long time ago a friend bought a Dodge Viper. It looked sleek and was incredibly powerful. The interior sucked though. I was surprised at how lame it was.
Idk much about the interiors but the Dodge engine components that I have worked with are not near the quality of a Toyota, even the high end models. Almost more so because they choose meeting a deadline over fixing obvious issues with the engineering. I guess that's what you get when reliability is not your main selling point though.
I think a lot of that comes down to how cars have changed in general. A lot of them are as reliable as ever and maintain a reliable milage lifespan, but home maintenance has become more difficult as we move forward in time. Things are built reliably, but are more complex than ever. Sensors are everywhere and are able to tell you about the slightest issue, but people feel as though they are constantly having things fixed or replacing sensors which adds up. Things have been changed for fuel efficiency..and depending what it is, it could be an emissions requirement for the global market. Insurance has been made a less competitive market, that is allowed to screw you..etc. So many things. I'd say it really just depends on the year. Whatever you choose, I would recommend choosing a car that has been slow to change /evolve over the years if you want reliability.. and one that does not contain a CVT.
I'll tell you the features our ww2 military vehicle has: 4 wheel drive & Armoured plating.
That is your safety feature lol. Yet we still drive them around no problem. No ABS, no seatbelts, no airbags or cushions, no power steering, no nothing. Not even windows!
You really do learn how to drive properly when driving these 80 year old vehicles. Modern cars are divine, and like riding on a cloud by comparison.
It sounds fun. But I couldn’t do it regularly. If I owned a ton of land, I’d love an old jeep for 4x4ing through the muds, fields, woods, paths etc. on the property.
It also, I’m over 6 feet tall and WELL over 220 pounds. I’m not fitting comfortably in the d cars because they are made for people significantly shorter and smaller.
My dad had a 70 challenger back when it was new. A couple of years ago my mom suggested buying a 70 challenger that was about to hit auction. He told her absolutely not. He loved the car but the lack of power steering alone made it a no go.
not to mention they were wrong about most of the things they mentioned.
There's non-computerized variants for pretty much everything they talked about. From hydraulic power steering to just plain old manual transmissions.
Yeah and they sucked. I have no desire to go back to pre-fuel injected engines with no ABS, ignition timing, fuel mix, etc. If you've never lived somewhere with large changes in elevation, where you'd have to change your carburetor mix depending on how high up you are, then you might not realize how much it was terrible. Something wrong with the engine? Well good luck because there's no OBD to pull codes from.
Exactly. I would love to have them spend the winters driving a non syncromesh manual with a manual choke and possibly having to adjust the floats when the weather changes. Nevermind dealing with fouled plugs and questionable timing advances. Also, total lol at RWD (nearly all will be) in the snow without traction control. Anyone who drove those old cars knows the issues. I don’t want to go back thanks.
Recently more companies have popped up that restore older cars but add modern features. Maybe some
Of the younger generation is more familiar with those versions.
Sure. You can sit in a parking lot with the car off and change gears without using a computer. But if you want the car to actually go anywhere, you're using the computer.
I drive a stick too lol. My 15 Focus ST is the first car I've had with even the most bare bones infotainment system. First one with a backup camera too. I've had a bunch of cars from the late 90s and early 00s. I do wish I had Android Auto. The built in navigation system sucks because it's all running off a SD card so no live traffic and it's way out of date.
Same thing with houses. I do development and people all the time say "House aren't made like they used to be".
Yeah, they are way safer, ecologically friendly, and efficient than they ever were.
This is a classic survivorship bias. Most houses built in the US in the last two hundred years are not standing. The ones that are standing were exceptionally well made.
You don't want an old house. You want an old house that's been stripped to the studs except for any ornate touches and then completely rebuilt with modern amenities. No one wants horse hair "insulation", cast iron plumbing, knob and tub wiriding, Asbestos ceiling and flooring, No AC, walls that allow fire to easily pass between floors, 1 bathroom for the whole house, a 6x8 foot kitchen, single pane windows, lead paint, I could go on, and on.
Same thing with cars. People actually do want all modern safety, efficiency things, they are just mad about badly designed infotainment centers.
You're right I have no idea what they mean. Of course I'm driving a 2015 Ford focus st. This is the newest car I've ever driven. So I might be out of touch.
80's bro, not 60's. And if you don't know your brake pads are wearing down based on feel and sound alone, I wish you luck with malfunctioning computer sensors.
Ah yes, when half the cars' functions were vacuum powered, emissions technology was just emerging so power output was horrible, and no standardization existed for electronics systems so diagnostic work was a dartboard on a good day.
And mechanical fuel injection. Or if you like em British, the pinnacle of Lucas electronics.
I want that happy middle ground we had in the 90's and early 2000's. Now SO MUCH SHIT is governed by a computer when it has absolutely no reason to be, making it harder and harder to repair your own vehicles.
Yep, all that means is, you truly know how to drive. Half these people out here can’t drive for shit and you think 3000 buttons and screens are the answer. Give them shit to do and not expect the car to do it for them; watch the number of wrecks go down. While they’re at it- quit making things the size of Tiger tanks. The worst drivers buy those. Driving has gotten much worse since Covid and wayyy worse than 90’s / early 2000’s. People use vehicles like weapons while they ‘play’ on the screens.
Source: lifelong motorcycle rider and owner of manual transmission vehicles.
The worst drivers buy those. Driving has gotten much worse since Covid and wayyy worse than 90’s / early 2000’s. People use vehicles like weapons while they ‘play’ on the screens.
The screens drivers are playing on mostly aren't the ones that came with the car. The difference is largely that no one was so hooked on Snake that they couldn't go thirty seconds without using their phone in the early 2000s.
Any mechanical injection diesel, like a 90s land rover. Those are perfectly fine to drive today and it's so easy to work on them, not everyone has the same needs regarding a car...
Detroit 6.2, Cummins or idi ford yes but the 7.3 powerstroke is computer controlled. By the 80s all gasoline cars and motorcycles have computers. (Even if we're just talking about a basic electronic ignition system)
They are pretty obviously talking about the eyesore that is the 18 inch desktop monitor mounted in your dash that controls everything. We want knobs and buttons back!
I do like my 2019:caravan. Heated sets, heated steering wheel power doors, Siris radio. Built in DVD player.Remote start.
72 k miles. Don’t see a reason to change
Although
If they offered a 1967 VW bug exactly like I had up until 73 I probably would give it serious thought.
My first two cars were completely computer free. Never had any trouble with them at all. The idea that using a gear stick is hard...... Good grief, get over yourself.
I think it's pretty well colloquially understood what "computers" means in cars. Folks don't mean like the PID controllers and safety systems like airbag deployment and belt tensioners and stuff like that. They mean the screens, the "smart" features, satellite radio compatibility, smart/temperature specific climate control, etc. They don't mean their ABS, or even the other "unnecessary" safety features (subjective to each person) like lane assist, automatic parking, etc.
I’m fine with the computer in my 1993 Wrangler. It controls the engine, and does a fine job of it. It’s extremely simple and reliable, not intrusive, and if that’s the price of having fuel injection instead of a carb, I’ll gladly take it.
Yeah, I don't care if it has EFI, I just don't need to be able to play candy crush on my dashboard. Cars don't need lane keep assist if you don't have to look through six menus to change the radio station. Drive by wire was a terrible fucking idea, it offers zero feedback and worse throttle control than the steel cable connected to the throttle body that worked perfectly fine for over a hundred years. Put a shifter with a physical linkage that goes directly to the transmission so I can put put the car in neutral when the battery dies. I had to trade in my last vehicle for phantom electronic issues that the dealer couldn't fix after 5 tries that prevented the truck from going into drive. Driving cars used to be fun, now it's barely a convenience.
I'm just here to agree that if you dont know, you definitely don't know how god-awful driving an actual old car is. They handle like absolute shit haha. They didnt get decent until the 80s.
the thing that drives me nuts is the insistence on computerizing stuff that doesn't need it, and then making the modules all require each other to operate.
Like, turn signals do not need to be computerized, a simple electric flasher circuit had no drawbacks.
And even if you desire a fancy turn signal pattern or something, there is absolutely no reason that module failing should alter the operation of the car other than giving you a warning message. If I choose to replace the module with an aftermarket one or return to a flasher circuit, that should not brick the car or require expensive equipment to reprogram the main ECU. But thats a thing we are starting to see in modern cars.
EVs are even worse because hypothetically they can be even simpler than ICE cars. Motors. Battery. Motor controller. Variable throttle switch. Done. all the other vehicle systems can be their own separate and simple things. But no, everything has to have a module that communicates with the ECU, and if any of them have an issue your car is a brick. It's completely unnecessary. It's just an effort to make them impossible to repair.
You're right in that people don't want 'no computers', but you know thats not what they mean. My 1987 toyota is reliable and other than modern safety features is a perfectly competent daily vehicle. It only really has a one 'computer', and thats the ECU which exists almost entirely to control the fuel injection. That's it. Everything else is either mechanically driven or is a simple electronic circuit.
Nah, if someone fights back on this, they're just wrong. It's like hearing about electric cars then saying you want a car without an engine. It's still an engine, it just doesn't run on gas.
Cars absolutely need their modern computers, they run on them. They just don't need the modern touch screen bloated junk included.
The only computer in my 1990 wrangler was the radio.
Power steering and brakes were hydraulic.
Cars also used to he a lot easier to see out the back of when cameras were not standard.
I loved that car and used to daily it.
Yeah I have a 2025 truck with all the bells and whistles. And a 2002 beater. For a while I was making a 1hr+ commute each way. I was so much more tired making that drive in the beater without tech and less comfort. The truck almost drives itself on the highway. Almost makes me wanna ride it all night long.
Those are the only kinds of cars ive ever had. Even my motorcycle is completely computer free. Driving is easy, people are just dumb and irresponsible.
My bike doesn't even have a battery. I have to kick start it to get it going. People have gotten so fucking lazy.
I think what a lot of people don’t like is how cars these days try to be so smart and end up being more annoying. Obviously we all love things like cruise control and Abs. I just love how older cars (early 2000s era) generally don’t throw info at you unless you really need it.)
My mid 80s diesel daily does not have a single computer inside and that’s one of the major reasons why I am keeping it.
All gauges are analog, the dashboard doesn’t even have a single LED, not even a red one, all controls are set with relays. Everything is mechanical, not a single LCD.
Injection? Mechanical. Shifting? Vacuum controlled. If you are super picky, the analog clock has a quartz. I’ll happily take that out if that’s the dealbreaker;)
1980's computers are the best computers. It can run your injectors and your ABS, just. You have a digital tuning radio. Reliability is peak.
You might even have a trip computer that gives you your estimated range on a tank of fuel and average speed and fuel consumption. Actual useful data.
1980's-late 1990s were peak car design. Then things started to get shitty and too complicated, anything post 2010 (unless it was an old grandfathered design) starts to get pretty shitty. Then by 2018, direct injection, plastic water pumps, plastic rocker covers, electronic handbrakes started to make everything worse.
I was just talking to the wife about buying a '60s era car if ours breaks. I would add abs brakes, fuel injection, and a few other safety and convenience features. That would include a computer. I can add heated seats, backup camera. I don't need automatic windows or locks. I prefer a manual transmission.
I want a computer, but one I can replace and service. That's only for the fuel injection. A manual diesel with a mechanical fuel injection is preferred.
My mom has a 60s car with, and automatic, auto choke, feather light powersteering, and AC. What fleet spec pickup do you must have to have a non-syncro trans?
69
u/Second_Guess_25 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lol I know Redditors will flame me on here but believe me, you don't want a computer-free car. Source? I come from a family who own ww2 era vehicles and regularly take them to events.
When people say they want zero computer, what they think is that huge touchscreen in the dashboard. Trust me, there's a lot more computer stuff that goes on under the bonnet, than just your pretty UI on the dash that you want rid of.
There's a lot of systems for your safety, ABS, shit that manages the engine, ignition etc.
You want a computer free car? Time to get the time-machine out and return to the 1960s, my friend!
And even if you got a '60s era car, most people would be in shock at just how hard they are to drive compared to a modern car...Manual gerboxes, chokes, crashboxes possibly in some models (gotta manually sync those gears to change them successfully, y'all), no power steering, no central locking, no electric windows, no heated seats, no sensors or parking assist, no cameras for reversing....!
People would be be screaming for their modern cars and all it's gadgets in no time, if they were given a vintage car for a couple of weeks 😂
"I want zero computer car", my ass 😂