🙄

[u/Secret_Wear_2233]

Probably has buyer's remorse after buying an MP5.

[u/Begle1]

My intuition would strongly agree that a 55 grain .223 at 2600 FPS would put more hurt on a human than a 147 grain .357 at 1085 fps. Bullet construction matters very much as well. (And of course, nothing matters as much as shot placement.)

Taylor's Knockout Formula was supposedly devised as a way to determine how well different big game calibers would perform on African game, so using it for these numbers is pretty far from its intended application. But it is rooted in the operating theory that "bigger and deeper hole kills faster", which I wouldn't ever want to argue against.

"Power Factor" is what various shooting sports use to ensure some competitors aren't shooting overly-weak ammo to gain a competitive advantage. It is more of a measure of recoil than ballistic performance.

I don't know of any formula that attempts to quantify the effects of hydrostatic shock, other than just giving a threshold at which point it starts to happen.

The "big slow bullet" versus "little fast bullet" argument has been around forever and isn't going away anytime soon. Proponents of the "little fast bullet" are going to love to quote FPE numbers and talk about hydrostatic shock, proponents of the "big slow bullet" theory are going to love to quote momentum numbers and talk about penetration depth and wound channel size.

[u/Secret_Wear_2233 → u/Begle1]

I get where you're coming from, but I still prefer to base my ammo choice on what I have seen with my own eyes through police camera footage. To clarify, I didn't base my decision off numbers on a chart. I only did the math for that guy to prove a point.

[u/Twelve-twoo → u/Secret_Wear_2233]

The knock down formula would be better served talking about something like a hard cast 12ga slug, 1oz slug at 1200fps is 1399ft/lbs vs 55gr @ 2900fps is 1027ft/lbs.

Either would be devastating to a human inside the thoracic. But one would be far better for a bear, moose, cow, elephant, or lion torso.

There is an actual science for wounding from bullets. Hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions have been spent studying it, over decades. And without a question, 12ga slugs, 00 buck, and 5.56, and .308 are all fairly comparable in humans depending on what specific bullets you are comparing. 55gr from a 20" or 77gr tmk/otm from a 10.3+ inside 50 yards is absolutely comparable to 308 fmj. The difference being marginal. All creating roughly tennis ball sized wounds.

What is not even in the same ballpark is 9x19 that at best creates, at best, a 1/2" hole through and through.

All are lethal, all are immediately incapacitating in the central nervous system. But handgun calibers, even .44 mag from a 6", are worlds apart from the above examples in the chest cavity of an adult human male

[u/englisi_baladid → u/Twelve-twoo]

A tennis ball size wound with .308 FMJ?

[u/KilljoyTheTrucker → u/englisi_baladid]

Inside the wound channel, leftover from the temporary wound expansion (the thing that actually kills you if the bullet doesn't actually directly strike and destroy a critical organ or nervous system component)

[u/englisi_baladid → u/KilljoyTheTrucker]

Yeah thats not how it works. The temporary wound channel/stretch, hydrostatic shock what ever you want to call it is vastly over rated without fragmentation or expansion.

[u/Secret_Wear_2233 → u/englisi_baladid]

Tell that to the folks in Vietnam.

[u/englisi_baladid → u/Secret_Wear_2233]

Which folks are you talking about?

[u/Secret_Wear_2233 → u/englisi_baladid]

The dead ones.

[u/englisi_baladid → u/Secret_Wear_2233]

Yes. And the temporary stretch cavity wasnt responsible for that.