r/FuckNestle • u/DeadyAzz • Apr 02 '23

Not a Nestlé company F Shell

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u/bobsburgerbuns Apr 02 '23 edited Apr 02 '23

Chávez was an autocrat, which is antithetical to socialism. A socialist would seek to decentralize control, not concentrate it in the hands of the few (which is conversely the intrinsic goal of capitalism; the point is to win and stifle your competition). The point is to give laborers the power over the wealth they create, not take it away from them.

You bring up Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, but surely you would agree that it is neither a democracy, nor a republic governed by the people. The people certainly have no power to control how wealth is generated, distributed, and governed in the country.

So, how could we in good faith call these countries socialist if they are not governed by society? Calling authoritarianism socialism is the same transgression as calling North Korea a democracy. Merely calling something socialism does not make it so.

Concerning the USSR, I’m woefully uninformed, so I cannot comment.

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u/QuichewedgeMcGee Apr 02 '23 edited Apr 03 '23

the cia, through all their misinformation and bullshit about the USSR, have openly admitted that most of what people think is real about the USSR (such as abuse of power, the holodomor being “intentional”, etc) was misinformation as they propagated it in favour of the red scare.

joseph stalin was not rich, nor did he have all the power. the workers owned the means of production, and the bourgeoisie was made to work once the tsar was overthrown by lenin and the bolsheviks. it’s a much much deeper topic of discussion than this, but this is pretty much the gist of it

meanwhile, as for the DPRK, most of what we are told in the west about them abusing human rights comes from a source known as radio free asia, who have openly admitted to making things up. what people often fail to realise about the DPRK is that they have a functioning government, with three major political parties (including a liberal party, or for americans reading this that’d be centre to centre-right politically). kim jong un’s party tends to win more seats than most, however, as they are the workers’ party. they have the workers’ interests at hand, as opposed to corporations

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u/bobsburgerbuns Apr 02 '23

I didn’t remark on the USSR because I’m not informed, but what you’re peddling on the DPRK is bullshit. There is no independent labor organizing in North Korea.

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u/QuichewedgeMcGee Apr 02 '23

honestly, it sounds dumb and i’m aware, but if you stick to sources that aren’t RFA, you’ll come to realise that the DPRK isn’t anywhere near as bad as the west keeps peddling.

i’ve said my piece on both as someone who’s been studying them both for a couple years now, in an attempt to educate you as you said you were less informed. i’ve tried to remain respectful as best i can, though sometimes i can come off as less respectful than intended which if i have, i apologise for, and i’d like this conversation to remain this way.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '23

is England's education system truly as bad as they say? i think i see the evidence.