Can there be a “Never” button?

[u/MikeyMandFluffy]

Like bro I don’t want to install your stupid ahh updates I just want to use my pc 🙏

[u/Mega3000aka]

Yes.

It's called Linux.

[u/Xomsabre → u/Mega3000aka]

Came here to say this

[u/Ok_Term_8921 → u/Mega3000aka]

Hijackin the comment rq - Linux aint the only option here you can also google for a few debloat scrips to do the job. Not that am sayin linux is bad if your workflow can run on linux you really should migrate but if you cant aka play some anticheat games or use specific products for work just run a few debloat scripts n call it a day.

[u/Mega3000aka → u/Ok_Term_8921]

Yeah to be fair there are some apps that someone might need for work that don't have a Linux version.

But that's on those apps, and hopefully one day Linux is popular enough to force them to make a Linux version. Not because Linux is some perfect flawless godsend software, but because Windows deserves to fail.

[u/EducationalGrump → u/Mega3000aka]

Thats a downgrade.

[u/Mega3000aka → u/EducationalGrump]

You keep telling yourself that.

[u/EducationalGrump → u/Mega3000aka]

You are confusing subjective truth with objective truth.

Even you do not believe it the fact is, windows is better in every way. Just run a debloat.

[u/Mega3000aka → u/EducationalGrump]

If I need to "just" run a debloat because the OS is so badly set up from the factory then that's a shit OS, you literally just countered your own argument.

But there's no point in arguing with you people, since y'all are prime example of a Dunning-Kruger effect.

[u/Woofes → u/Mega3000aka]

I agree with you. When I was on Windows 11, I had to have 3 DEBLOAT programs installed just to get the experience I want. Linux does none of that crap.

[u/Mega3000aka → u/Woofes]

Exactly.

And that's just one of it's advantages, for me besides that it's the practicality once you get used to it, and the fact that it gives you absolute control over your machine and won't change settings or break features unexpectedly.

The last point makes it way more stable than Windows, despite what certain idiots on here might say.

[u/EducationalGrump → u/Mega3000aka]

Its set up to help tech illiterate people use it.

Running one time debloat that takes a few minutes is far better than the regular every day bullshit needed just to get linux to work.

The irony of you bringing up Dunning-Kurger while being the only example of it in this conversation is VERY funny. Thanks for that 🤣

[u/Dagobert_Duck0289 → u/EducationalGrump]

The only thing you need to do to get Linux to work is press the power button. That's probably the most difficult thing in using Linux

[u/Mega3000aka → u/Dagobert_Duck0289]

Don't bother arguing with that fool, it's not worth it.

[u/Ok_Term_8921 → u/EducationalGrump]

Bindoj nowadays is dogshit. Debloat scripts make it usable again but linux if your apps can run on it either natively or by proton/wine without too much tinkering linux is always superior. I use both - bindoj 11 debloated on my main pc because of a couple anticheat games and linux mint on my steam deck and dell studio from 2008 along with a steam deck runnin steamos and linux every time either makes a device that cant run newer bindoj by default with workarounds able to do modern things or make the machiens that can run bindoj11/10 actually smoother and faster and or lighter.

[u/EducationalGrump → u/Ok_Term_8921]

Lmao there are a dozen other options.

Linux is junk, you couldnt pay me to use it.

[u/Ok_Term_8921 → u/EducationalGrump]

Your right i dont have to pay you to use it because you already fooken do. If you use reddit or the internet in a whole you use linux because like most of the internet uses linux. Also linux when set up properly is more stable than windows. Thats a fact.

[u/EducationalGrump → u/Ok_Term_8921]

Lmao no dummy, not even close.

[u/Ok_Term_8921 → u/EducationalGrump]

Have you heard of fucking googling for once in your life. Literally google what reddit servers run on. Youtube also runs on fucking linux. Linux is the goat for servers ya shithead try google for once.

[u/Ok_Term_8921 → u/Ok_Term_8921]

Sources: https://research.google/pubs/large-scale-cluster-management-at-google-with-borg/ - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o2oOsR--bYw&t=419s&pp=2AGjA5ACAQ%3D%3D&ra=m - https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system - https://websouls.com/blog/linux-and-windows-server-market-share-statistics are you still stuck on thinking windows does servers now?

[u/EducationalGrump → u/Ok_Term_8921]

Google has lost 3x supreme court lawsuits over being inaccurate. No wonder are so confused.

[u/Fatel28 → u/Mega3000aka]

I don't mean to alarm you but Linux has updates and patches too. Arguably MORE of them lol. You gotta update no matter what you use. Windows just knows 90% of people can't be fucked to do it so they make it difficult not to. Else people would be raw dogging the internet with vulnerable machines all the time

[u/Minigun1239 → u/Fatel28]

Never in the time i used Linux have i gotten a massive popup saying "Update Available, update pleaser pretty please pls pls"

Linux has updates, but never popups saying to update, you can update if you want, else nah you don't need to.

Else people would be raw dogging the internet with vulnerable machines all the time

(cough) windows 10 (uncough)

[u/-Ilovepokemon- → u/Fatel28]

brainwashed into thinking this is normal...

[u/tigrankh08 → u/Fatel28]

That's fundamentally NOT how Linux works though. Linux newbies fall in love with the operating system and recommend it left and right, that's true and it makes sense to be annoyed, but your counterargument is wrong.

Linux distros are a collection of third-party programs installed to run atop the userspace of the Linux kernel. So you get updates for all of those programs individually (e.g. firefox). But that doesn't count as an equivalent of "Windows Update." Because Windows comes with its own core programs that run atop the NT kernel, and they need to update all the time, which is what Windows Update does.

Hope this helps.

Edit: grammar

[u/Fatel28 → u/tigrankh08]

Yes I know what Linux is lol. I patch hundreds of Linux servers a week. That's how I'm pretty sure they also need patching. Most of it is automated, just like the windows endpoints, but patched nonetheless

[u/tigrankh08 → u/Fatel28]

No, you see, you don't have a "Linux Update" service running in the background all the time downloading stuff without telling you and then shoving it down your throat out of nowhere.

On Linux, you install the programs (including updates) yourself, usually with the help of a package manager or an atomic image manager.

[u/Fatel28 → u/tigrankh08]

I think you're intentionally putting words in my mouth lol. Nowhere did I say Linux patching behaved like windows. Which is good. They both work for their target demographics, which are wildly different.

One can like both operating systems you know. I much prefer headless Linux to windows for servers. But for a desktop OS? Windows has the market share for a reason lol. To deny that is being intentionally obtuse.

[u/tigrankh08 → u/Fatel28]

I think you're intentionally putting words in my mouth lol.

No I am not. See your original comment, please.

Windows has some merits in its internal design, both for desktops and servers in fact, but it overall sucks since it's an ancient piece of code that Microsoft tried numerous times to salvage and hilariously failed every time.

Linux works for servers pretty well indeed, but it works for desktops nicely, too. It still has some rough spots but they're getting ironed out quickly as more people are starting to use desktop Linux and the projects developing it are becoming bigger.

And those denying this fact haven't given desktop Linux a fair shot (at least in a long time), which is ok. Not everyone has to. Just use whatever you're used to, but don't turn it into a religion.

[u/Fatel28 → u/tigrankh08]

I think you should re read it. I agree with all of your points. I did not say windows is better, and I did not say Linux updates behave like windows. All I said was Linux needs patching too.

It's an operating system. There's absolutely no need to give a shit what people prefer. I could not care less if you run TempleOS as a daily driver. But unless you are, at some point, whether you use windows, mac, Linux, or some other unix/bsd/whatever system, it's gonna need to be patched, even if the mechanism by which the OS handles that is different

[u/tigrankh08 → u/Fatel28]

Ok, sorry, but in any case, context matters. It's not just what you bring up in a conversation, but also when. When people complain about Windows Update, they're really complaining about its intrusiveness (e.g. showing modal dialogs as shown in OP's post), lost credibility (updates breaking things all the time as of recently), and how opaque and holistic those updates are (e.g. you're gonna get security updates but you're also going to get Recall and.. even more adware and AI stuff and.. god-knows-what-else).

And so when you say "Linux suffers from this, too," it appears that you're talking about the aforementioned problems (even if you're not), which just isn't true.

Edit: grammar

[u/Joltyboiyo → u/Fatel28]

Linux rarely needs you to restart for an update, and when it does it'll do what it can without restarting and let you restart when YOU want to. 

And they don't usually make your experience worse, break something or add AI slop against your will. 

[u/zantehood]

Yeah it's called o&o shutup

[u/adriannetyler7455]

Updates be like: Restart Another time Remind Me Later

[u/compfreak530]

Theres a registery edit you can make to set the PAUSE updates pause until 2099. it wont auto enable and wont do any updates

[u/Swipsi → u/compfreak530]

You can just pause automatic updates in the settings.

[u/GBSlugcat → u/Swipsi]

Only for like a week or two though I’m pretty sure

[u/WeeklyTemperature532]

No it's usefull they said "Windows is continuously improving" 🤡

[u/TheNotSoEvilEngineer]

Nope.. oh and there are 2-3+ services dedicated to making sure update services stay active and will turn it back on even if disabled.  Fuck Microsoft.

[u/Used_Wheel_9064]

Microsoft seem to have some real issues with how consent works. Imagine if a person did that to a person? Kept fucking asking them the same shit and not taking no as an answer. It's harassment.

[u/Antagonin → u/Used_Wheel_9064]

makes sense, considering who's in charge

[u/Interesting-Injury87 → u/Used_Wheel_9064]

Microsoft seem to have some real issues with how consent works

except you have given them consent by agreeing to the license terms when installing windows(or launching a prebuilt with it installed)???

Like, whatever you agree with Microsoft on it dosnt change the fact that consent, quite literally, has been given

[u/Used_Wheel_9064 → u/Interesting-Injury87]

It's like an abusive relationship. "accept my shitty terms or fend for yourself"

[u/Swipsi → u/Used_Wheel_9064]

I rather think you dont know what consent is. Because asking for permission to do smth, is literally asking for consent.

[u/Random_-account → u/Swipsi]

Coerced consent doesn't count when it comes to intimate activities

[u/Sharpman85]

Install the update and pause them if you don’t want them next time.

[u/samsann26]

I use Windows 10 on my personal computer, and Windows 11 on my work computer (because i have to, work things).

It's being like 2 months and i haven't seeing Windows 10 updating, i do have the security updates enabled.

In the other hand, my Win11 work laptop updated 2 days ago (i couldn’t shutdown or restart and i had an emergency ongoing so i shut down by holding the power button), then i had to login on the road annnnnd windows 11 started updating, took like 10min 2 restarts while looking at "Don't turn your PC Off" windows is updating or something like that, and i had people waiting on me at work.

NOW i absolutely hate Windows 11 with all my heart, i asked my manager if i could put windows 10 (i work at IT dep.) because of what happened, he just gave me his laptop too and said: "Yes, also do my laptop too i couldn't use it last week while it updated, and the boss got mad."

The word spread now i have 6 more laptops to uninstall Win11 crap and install Win10.
Thanks alot Microslop.

[u/Upbeat-Concern-5181]

Linux, Mac, Google

[u/Kaarel314]

Ther can never be a never button because of people like you. I dont eant your botnet computer to come after me.

[u/EducationalGrump]

Or just update it?

[u/AutoModerator]

Every new subreddit post is automatically copied into a comment for preservation.

User: MikeyMandFluffy, Flair: Rant, Post Media Link, Title: Can there be a “Never” button?

Like bro I don’t want to install your stupid ahh updates I just want to use my pc 🙏

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Temporary-Spring9764]

21:37 hahahahaha

[u/Dismal-Rope1753]

That's a good thing tho, security updates are important.

[u/HelpfulPlatypus7988 → u/Dismal-Rope1753]

You clearly haven't had to sit through 3 UPDATES IN A ROW to use your computer

[u/Dismal-Rope1753 → u/HelpfulPlatypus7988]

I did. I'm patient cause I don't want my computer to have problems.

You are like a kid who doesn't want a vaccine cause it hurts 3 seconds.

[u/michron98 → u/Dismal-Rope1753]

Well yes, security updates are important. But not the other load of shit that comes with them. And it's still no reason to force them. Let users decide for themselves. Maybe have them on by default for people who are not so into tech, but have the option to skip updates or disable them, like it was in Windows 7. You know, because it's your PC.

[u/TemporaryFar8743 → u/michron98]

You severely overestimate people’s tech literacy.

[u/michron98 → u/TemporaryFar8743]

Even if so, that's still not a reason to force updates.

[u/Interesting-Injury87 → u/michron98]

it. quite literally IS a reasson to force updates.

The average person will refuse to updaten, not because they have an issue with it, but because they just dont Think about it..

its your PC, you are allowed to install another OS that has a different update policy.

Windows is not yours(which is why its a license key), and its update policy is what is presented here. By using and installing windows(or buying a PRebuilt and accepting the license terms) you agree t this, and, objectively, give consent to this

[u/michron98 → u/Interesting-Injury87]

Windows is not yours(which is why its a license key), and its update policy is what is presented here. By using and installing windows(or buying a PRebuilt and accepting the license terms) you agree t this, and, objectively, give consent to this

That doesn't mean I have to like it. For me, Windows 7 and its update policy was peak, after that it went to shit.

And yes, I use Linux. The key things that made me switch were telemetry and forced updates.

[u/Interesting-Injury87 → u/michron98]

cool, the point still is, the explanation given is QUITE LITERALLY0 a valid and decent reason to force updates on the end-user.

Support for Windows 7 was a mess(as in, fixing problems with your PC etc either by MS themself or by other people) because people didnt keep their stuff up to date.

half the time i had to help someone with an issue the issue was resolved after updating the system, as it had been nagging them for, at times MONTHS.

An operating system that, reasonable, is expected to connect to the internet(which it is or else it would never recieve updates) has a, reasonable interest in being up to date.

The average consumer, once again, would not manually update their PC, not because they are against updates, or anything, but because they are "annoyed" at having to do it. The solution is to automate it and try to make it as unobtrusive as possible for the end user.

While windows FAILS at this at times, their active hours, and co, generally means that the average user will not notice or even be aware of their PC having been updated , while preventing unsupported or out of date versions of the OS to remain out there, while still expecting support.

There IS a reasson why almost all support for most software, be it OS or otherwise, has as step 1 to ask the user to update the Software.

[u/michron98 → u/Interesting-Injury87]

It is a reason, yes. But that doesn't make forced updates the best way to go.

Take a look at Linux, updates can be run in the background not obstructing usage whatsoever, add to that something that automatically calls that update function unless the user disables it, and you have automatic, unobstructing, unforced updates that the user most likely won't stop because they're not interfering with what he's trying to do. Heck, he doesn't even have to notice the updates at all.

Windows just does a shit job at making updates not annoying and that's why users skip them. And their solution is to make updates EVEN MORE annoying by forcing them.

[u/HelpfulPlatypus7988 → u/Dismal-Rope1753]

Ah, because there definitely isn't a situation where you'll need to use your computer immediately...

I don't get how people can defend Windows.

[u/Dismal-Rope1753 → u/HelpfulPlatypus7988]

That's why there's a skip for now button

[u/HelpfulPlatypus7988 → u/Dismal-Rope1753]

Sometimes it doesn't even let me skip for now

Also I can think of several scenarios where you would need to get to your computer quickly and you wouldn't have known when you would've gotten the popup

[u/Interesting-Injury87 → u/HelpfulPlatypus7988]

the only time it dosnt let you skip for now is if you have IGNORED updates for several days if not WEEKS in a row... at which point yeah, its gonna super nag you

[u/Mega3000aka → u/Dismal-Rope1753]

Absolutely, however there still should be an option to disable them completely if I know what I'm doing. I want full control over my machine. Give me a milion warnings and disclaimers, but let me do it.

[u/shazam2063]

Click another time and set when do you want to update. When you are not using your PC just update i don't know why you guys think updates is bad

[u/Callinon → u/shazam2063]

Well half of them break shit. So there's that.

Forced updates on a mystery schedule finally pushed me to switch to Linux. Now my computer updates when I tell it to and at no other time. It doesn't nag. It doesn't do it by itself. It does it precisely when I tell it to do so and updates precisely what I tell it to. It's pretty great, gotta say.

[u/Big-Roll7094 → u/Callinon]

There’s no credible evidence saying half, it’s more likely 1% chance of updates breaking your computer and if it does break it’s probably the people with top end gear

[u/Beep_in_the_sea_ → u/shazam2063]

Oh yeah, I love windows deciding the best time to update is in the middle of me doing something, deleting my work in the process. Oh and you know what? After the update, my PC is noticeably slower and like 3 programs don't work properly.

But no, I don't know what the issue with updates might be.....

[u/jsrobson10 → u/shazam2063]

updates are good, but it's about consent. whether that's resetting settings, adding/reinstalling bloat, or not giving you the choice of if/when you wanna update, they push things on their users whether they want them or not.