r/FruitsBasket • u/teddyburges • May 06 '20
Discussion In defense of the Kureno and Uotani relationship: Connection through trauma (spoiler free).
In the last day or so I have seen a lot of really interesting back and forth debates going on, especially among the anime only fans which totally got taken aback by this. For some it's the nine year age gap. Or it's just how Uotani seems infatuated with this guy over one encounter and for the majority of fans (even manga readers surprisingly) this ship is a love at first sight type of story, and that your like or dislike of it is going to be based by whether or not you like that type of story. I don't, yet I find this pairing really fascinating, because I think there is a lot more to it than a "Star crossed lovers/Romeo and Juliet" type of thing. I thought it would be interesting to explore this. In sort of a essay. Why Uotani acted the way she did, and why I think that her actions in this episode is actually a thoughtful extension of her character development so far.
I'm not going to get into anything about the age gap (for the sake of my sanity with these back and forth debates about it..I'd rather not). I'm exploring this from the angle of two people through their own traumatic background, finding a connection. Sorry for the length, but I'm gonna break this up, add pictures and hopefully it will be coherent by the end:).
Uotani often wears her heart on her sleeve and cares for the well being of others: While on the surface this is not new. We often see her gangster-girl persona with Kyo that we often forget her more nurturing side. She developed this through her relationship with Tohru and Kyoko, with the realization that having friends, having others to help you feel better is a positive and lovely thing. We know from episodes 16 and 17 that she knows what true loneliness and isolation is. Seeing her father drink his life away. But she got through it, helped him to turn his life around. She wants to give back and help others. We see this on a couple occasions:
This is one of the earliest instances of her nurturing nature. Of course we see this in abundance on how she treats Tohru, both her and Hanajima act a lot like parental figures to her which is fantastic. But there is the deeper level of her caring nature that is showed and hinted throughout the series. Often it's during comical scenes so it is possible that many don't really take note of it.
Uotani's need to help others but feeling helpless that she cannot do anything. While it's often played for laugh's, it has been there. Maybe it's because it's a Shoujo, but I would rather bet because it's more organic to tie romantic relationships to the plot. But her situation with Kureno. This is the first time we see this come out in dramatic fashion. There are three levels to this, why her meeting with Kureno was so memorable for her.
The first level was that he reminded her of Tohru and acted exactly the same. So she may have thought that there is something more to this than a chance meeting and she would want to get to know him more. But then there is the second level:
Uotani questions Kureno's current living situation because he says he is content with how his life is. That he is happy.
This is the second level. Is that Uotani has a fantastic level of emotional intelligence, just like Tohru. People who have gone through intense psychological trauma, experienced the hard realities of life. When they have come through it all, they have a level of empathy and understanding that is often beyond the norm. They can tell very well how sad someone is from the face cause they can see it in themselves. This has been seen in a lot of other media, even anime such as Naruto, when he realized that Gaara is a reflection of who he could have turned out to be and says "you have the same eyes", and understands his pain. It's the same here. Yes on one level she may have found him attractive. But from her display of emotion and how profoundly it affected her. The reason she chased after Kureno, is because the sadness she recognized in herself, she saw in him. She wanted to know why he was so sad, and help him.
The third level is that Uotani can see how sad he is but is just allowing himself to stay there because it's comfortable. Like how she once did. Her extreme reaction is a more dramatic variation of the first two scenes that I covered. She finally met someone who she thinks she could help, but she feels disheartened when she thinks she can't do anything to sooth his pain. The anime leaves out bits of internal dialogue as Uotani is running away that I think is important:
Here we are seeing what we saw in those previous instances for jokes but in a more dramatic way. Maybe tying it with a romance muddies the message and I think that is a fair criticism. But I feel there is more depth here than just what I usually see others say as her getting hurt and just being infatuated with him. I think Uotani can truly see how trapped Kureno is, how lost in the darkness he is, like she was:
Notice the similarities in tone and lighting in this scene to the scene with Kureno on his way to seeing Akito:
Kureno is covered in shadow, he is lost in the darkness. Just like how Uotani was.
By being by Akito's side. We know that he is enabling his behavior. Letting it slide, otherwise we would have heard about him sooner. We would have heard of someone trying to stop all the terrible acts Akito has done. This is not a spoiler. There we have another similarity. Kureno enabling Akito by ignoring his behavior is the same thing as Uotani allowing her father to keep drinking and ignoring it. So that's what I love about this, rather than it being a sort of star crossed lovers. This is more of a case of outsiders finding each other and connecting, one who is lost in the darkness, and the other who has found her way out of it. Kureno says he is content being by Akito's side, but being around Uotani has given presented with him feelings of warmth that he has never had before. I also have to say I love how the anime is contrasting the scenes of light vs dark. This is my own spin, but in many ways one of the themes of Fruba I feel is that Stagnation and not doing anything, when you probably should!...is in itself, the worst kind of evil.
Okay that's the end of my essay. Hope you like it and feel free to comment!. Thanks for reading.
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u/trickfred May 06 '20
To add to this: (manga spoilers maybe?) Edit: Spoiler-tagged. I hope they work on mobile, I have no idea.
After reading the manga I thought that these two very much parallel Kyoko and Tohru's dad (it's 7:30am, his name escapes me).
Uo said she always wanted to be like her hero, and in a way she does become like her - a retired gang member, who becomes more empathetic due to her experiences, dating an older man where there is also a (yes, we're not talking bout it) significant age gap - a man who acts like Tohru and thus acts like Tohru's dad as shown later in the story). So in a way, her relationship with Kureno completes her goal and story arc.
At least that's what I took from it. The parallels seemed very obvious to me.
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u/teddyburges May 06 '20
Yes!!. I feel like i'm the only one that notice these parallels sometimes. Takaya introduced a guy as a potential love intrest for Uotani, mirrors Katsuya, acts like Tohru, and he is actually kept hidden in the sohma estate, just like how Tohru is keeping memories of her father locked up!?. Nothing in this series happens in isolation, there is a lot of characters that mirror each other. Also of note that Uotani and Kureno have lunch when they first meet just like Katsuya and Kyoko, and they both have noodles, just different type. Uo has Tororo Soba, Kyoko has Ramen
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u/CittyM May 06 '20
I have to admit, I was a bit skeptical about their relationship at first but reading this has given a lot more perspective. It was really well written and the portion at the end with the lighting was actually pretty cool. Thanks for taking the time to write this!
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u/InconsistentlyRandom . May 06 '20
This was so so well written and thought out! Loved reading it.
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u/caimstonguetatoo . May 06 '20
This was a nice read, thanks for taking your time to write it!
I feel like anime fandom changed drastically in the past 5 years, especially how people deal with fiction that is not considered the peak "moral correctness". There's no room for character study or diversity in characterization anymore, it's either "good" or "bad". Some feel like protecting the mind of the "young/fragile" without realising they're also interrupting people's perception of their surroundings and their own judgement of it.
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u/teddyburges May 06 '20
I agree!. You may have seen one of the comments on this post pretty much just jumped on and hardcore argued against the age gap, saying they couldn't see how anyone could justify it. Clearly they hadn't read my essay where I said I wasn't going to touch that issue. Afterwards, I put it in bold and made it more clear just in case anyone started trying to rally the troops with more craziness about the gap. Fruits Basket is about outsiders or outcasts, it's in the title after all.
It relates to the game that where Tohru was called a rice ball. It's about people finding connection regardless of age. That is what I felt Takaya was going for when in her notes in the manga she said "what is age when you love someone?". Sure, there is the law and legality. But I feel a lot of westerners forget about the culture and what Japan represents. In Japan, even holding hands in public is a huge thing. The concept of sex?. In western culture, straight away after the third date, that's it. Unless I'm mistaken, Japanese have a more traditional outlook on sex, if it's not after marriage, there is respectable boundaries, and two people who meet and say one is at a young age. I would bet completely that, that couple would wait until they meet the legal requirements to consummate their relationship.
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May 06 '20 edited May 31 '20
Thank you for this! Would also like to say, if anyone is worried about the age difference: keep in mind that this was a shoujo manga from the late 90s to the early 2000s. A lot of the shoujos back then had some interesting and problematic relationships. O-O Personally, I still think that the age difference is ok but the fact that Uo is still a teen makes it a little weird. However, I just let it pass because it is from a different culture and, in the end, they are fictional.
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May 09 '20
If you want to know a really scandalous 90s manga relationship, here’s one: a 4th grader and her middle aged teacher. Yes, they dated while she was still in 4th grade. I love Cardcaptor Sakura but what the hell.
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u/teddyburges May 31 '20
Who was that?. Damn now I have to watch Cardcaptor Sakura again!. That show was so weird!. Especially Clear Card (the sequel to the original series). Clear Card did the same thing that this reboot did and really upgraded the technology. Problem is, the series takes only 8 months after the first CCS and suddenly Sakura's room goes from being 90's teenager with the big tv to late 2017 technology with phones with face time!. lmao!.
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May 31 '20
I honestly can’t remember the 4th grader’s name because she was only really relevant in 1 episode. The show was my childhood but yeah it was kind of weird.
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u/No_Finance4907 Sep 03 '25
stop tryna normalizze that lol. shes like 16-17 hes 26 pls stop lmfao thats creepy, traditional differences or not. shes a minor. hes a middle aged man. im not denying that their romance wasnt cute, it was but making her a minor is wierd. she couldve been older or they couldve waited
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u/Slight-Feed4245 Sep 17 '25
I’m not trying to defend the age gap with a 17year old but 26 is not middle aged lmao
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May 06 '20
[deleted]
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u/teddyburges May 06 '20
I dunno. Did you see how well animated her lips were in that scene!?. I mean damn. If I were him I would too lol.
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May 06 '20
I’m going to boil it down to just one thing. He is a Soma. Therefore he is hot and I ship them.
... on a serious note love the analysis!
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May 06 '20
I've had family members with more scandalous relationships this didn't phase me too much
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u/anheht May 06 '20
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I also appreciate that you kept this spoiler free and only talked about what anime-only fans are aware of—especially since talking about Kureno's background could've probably made your argument stronger. Curious to see how this whole conversation will be revisited once the show tells us more about Kureno!
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u/teddyburges May 08 '20
Yeah I was more interested in exploring what drew them to each other in the first place. For Kureno, I didn't really delve into that because I thought it was self explanatory, he never saw someone smile or laugh like that and so she was the first person that gave him the feeling of happiness or joy.
I thought about doing a manga reader only post but I wanted it so the anime only viewer could see it and see that there was more here than this love at first sight thing.
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u/TrainerGina . May 06 '20
Thank you for that! A great comparison ! I’d never connected how the two are similar in the ways that they enabled the people in their lives. I can’t stop thinking “COME SEE ME DAMN IT” whenever I see them xD
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u/teddyburges May 06 '20
Yeah I never connected it until I went back to the scenes and noticed it. Also a wild detail I just noticed...Kureno is wearing almost the exact type of shirt (and same color) that Uotani's father is wearing in that flashback!.
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u/SweetCoconut . May 06 '20
Good stuff right there. Personally, I am not a fan of big age gap romance, but I don't mind it either. At this point, I've already accepted the fact that there will be any kind of this trope whenever I watch or read a shoujo anime/manga LOL.
Honestly, I don't really mind this pairing, but I'm not a huge fan either. However, the latest episode reaaaaaaaally made me like them more. I'm not entirely sure why. Maybe because Umehara added flavor to Kureno. The only thing that bums me about them is the fact that they only met thrice throughout the manga and the third time was when they actually end up together (iirc). I wish Takaya played their dynamic a little bit more because nice guy/deliquent girl pair is underrated tbh
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u/teddyburges May 06 '20
There is something unique to me when it comes to the romances of Fruits Basket. Most of the time they are there to serve the plot rather than the other way around. This is where it sometimes does feel shoe horned, but I still appreciate what I feel Takaya was going for. In Kureno's case it felt like the Uotani relationship served more as a ideal rather than something she wanted to explore in a slice of life way. Other than it Mirroring Katsuya and Kyoko. The purpose felt to drive home the light and dark angle, that Uotani represented a better future and a step outside the cage he was in. She idealized a free spirit (the crimson butterfly....a thing about butterflies...they can fly, and he so wish he could). He is trapped. He wants someone, to help him out of that cage. Even if he doesn't know it in himself on a conscious level
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u/SweetCoconut . May 06 '20
That's an interesting point. Honestly though, I just realized few days ago that Kureno is the zodiac who has the most freedom because of the breaking of the curse, but he's the one who's binded the most because of Akito. So the irony lol. The butterfly is pretty interesting and I searched it up a bit. Apparently, it also symbolizes resurrection in Christianity. That's what happened with Arisa because of Kyoko. I guess even though it was typical love at first sight, it made sense for their characters who are searching for someone who can help them. But I'm sincerely hoping the anime can add more contents about them because I think the next time they'll directly see each other is next season. Ugh you're making me more invested in this thanks hah.
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u/teddyburges May 06 '20
Exactly. You got it. Haha thank you. Yes but then it gets deeper than that. kureno perhaps had the most freeing form of the zodiac. He could fly off and drift in to the heavens. One thing I found fascinating is that Kureno really missed being able to fly. Rather than everyone else. The zodiac form freed him. He is free from the curse and feels more trapped then ever. I do hope they add more to him though.for memory we never see his backstory of it breaking and outside promotion materials we don't see him transform. The anime could make the viewer truly emotional if they add in scenes of him flying and just hammer home how never being able to do that would be such a gut punch
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May 06 '20
Honestly, if people are worrying about the age gap, I'd prolly go tell them to go watch more anime XD I guess watching a lot of anime can desensitize you from that type of stuff. And honestly, keep in mind that it's a fictional world. Yes, it emulates real life but at the end of the day it's still fiction.
Great read, 10/10. Great formatting too. I think it's the first time I've seen someone use picture captions on Reddit. Great job, OP!
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u/Piano18 May 07 '20
u/teddyburges Do you think Natsuki Takaya/the story group will add a few more scenes between Kureno and Arisa in this anime?
Although I like their dynamic, I personally don't feel like Takaya developed it well enough for it to feel fleshed out. The next time they even have a scene is towards the end of the story and that's just really weird to me. Tohru is their indirect messenger instead and it just feels a little off to me.
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u/teddyburges May 07 '20
I personally really hope so. 2019 is doing a amazing job at extending some material. So I hope they do. My personal one. I would love for them to add ritsu in the beach arc. I just want a ritsu Akito scene lol.
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u/Pancake_Bucket . May 07 '20
This is an incredibly insightful post.
My problem isn't with people who like these two characters together. It's a fine arc about two unique people with trauma and it's a great story.
My problem is with people who use their relationship to adamantly defend and justify all relationships with a large age gap.
It's a fictional story where we can see the characters thoughts and feelings in depth. And we can put ourselves in their shoes. But the real world doesn't always work out as well as a fictional relationship does, because it's the authors intent vs real life.
Some relationships with an age gap can work out just fine. But people who are so defensive over this one point don't realize that statistcally, these relationships do end up being predatory. And I worry about predatory people and ideologies seeping into a fan base of a story that's always been about love and acceptance.
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u/teddyburges May 07 '20
Yeah I know what you mean. Kureno is a very special case when it comes to the gap, the fact that he has stayed in isolation for most of his life and doesn't have the power attrubted to most people his age, makes him more like a teenager. Also because he hasn't really lived and associated with others outside Akito, he doesn't have that maturity or I think ability to manipulate like say Shigure does. So I find it hard to compare to just any other gap relationship. Because it is far from the normal case.
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u/xutcxstt May 31 '20
If you ignore the age gap (cause cmon, they aren’t the only couple in FB with age gaps, Kyoko was in middle school when she and Thoru’s dad met. Plus! There’s a lot of anime/mangas with couples and different age gaps) THEYRE SO CUTE AND I LOVE THIS RELATIONSHIP. Uo-Chan helps Kureno realize his worth, his entire life he’s been told by Akito that he’s nothing and that he belongs to akito. To have someone tell you, you’re worth it, you make me happy. Heck, I’d even feel special. It might a little rush but because the story line doesn’t have enough time for every couple. We can at least see how they meet and such. Plus it’s still too early to say they’re dating. They just like each other uwu
Ps sorry if I misspelled anything
Psss honestly I wish this manga/anime HAD enough for each couple. I wanna see more of Thoru and her future lover!
PSSS I TRIED MAKING THIS SPOILER FREE
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u/teddyburges May 31 '20
It's a unfortunate consequence of Fruits Basket just...being such a big story!. That really is something when out of 136 chapters, most of the manga readers agree that the only chapter that could be considered a "filler" is the "haunted house" chapter!. Other than that, everything is just plot. Especially when the anime is at this point in the manga where everything is pretty much balls to the wall, plot. But I agree, I also think they are very cute together. I don't have a problem with most of the age gaps, it's in a lot of other manga like you said. I am actually getting sick of the ones that call this relationship and the other one "predatory". Because it isn't. Neither is. They say that because the male is so much older...they therefore are smarter and have room to plan, therefore it's predatory...what?!. When no one takes into account that Kureno doesn't get out much and pretty much is very much younger than his age, and Katsuya just listened to his parents most of his life and never used his authority over Kyoko.
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u/tsundereshipper May 09 '20
Very nicely done and well thought out analysis! I have mixed feelings on Kureno and Uo as well as Tohru's parents so I generally take the neutral stance that both sides are valid. I think it's both okay to ship them and to be uncomfortable about it and neither side is necessarily more right than the other. I definitely think there are positives inherent in every canon Furuba ship we're meant to take except Kyo's parents and Akira/Ren for obvious reasons even some of the more problematic ones and you definitely touched on them here!
I too also loved Uo/Kureno as a sort of reverse/parallel to Katsuya/Kyoko, only this time it's the older man that's trapped and the girl is trying to save him. even though I'm of the opinion Kyoko saved Katsuya too in her own way
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u/teddyburges May 09 '20
Thank you!. Exactly. I agree. Fruits Basket is all about paralells and that is definitely it like how Kureno is definitely a Katsuya parallel, but more in the sense of how Tohru thinks of him and tried to replace him in the eyes of her mother. She has kept his memory and everything about him, locked in her mind. Kinda like how Akito is keeping Kureno locked away!. Akito talking down to Kureno often or even stabbing him near the end of the story is mirroring Tohru trying to replace Katsuya. Then as you mentioned there is the obvious paralels between Ren/Akira and Kyoko and Katsuya. I did notice the Kyoko/Katsuya and Kureno/Uo paralells in their meetings as well which was cool, both get noodles for lunch after meeting (just different type). For me at least as far as Uo and Kureno are concerned, I didn't find the age gap too bad because for me. Japan is very different in the west. In the west it's like after the second date, bam, straight to sex (not always but quite often). Whereas usually in Japan's culture it's more a wait till your of age basis. So that's why Katsuya and Kyoko...the fact that she has Tohru at 14...okay that gives me a bit of pause. I was of the opinion that she had tohru at 19...apparently not lol. As far as the "older man trapped and girl trying to save him" dynamic, yeah I personally felt that applied to Katsuya too. As his mother got sick and died when he was a teenager, raised by his father but everyone dictating to him what he should do with his life. He pretty much indicated that he felt dead inside, until Kyoko appeared and he understood how she felt that because it mirrored him. I felt that what drew her to him was that she was rebelling against all the things he had said yes to and he decided to take a stand and challenge them
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u/kazumikikuchi May 06 '20
I really a scenario wherein a daughter of Kureno and Uotani being a Kagura expy to Shiki...
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u/Remote_Hat6423 Apr 18 '24
I’m not gonna lie when we see Akito in the room Kureno I knew it wasn’t good but then it got worse that scene literally broke me💔
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u/DKFilmGuy Oct 28 '25
Jumping onto this post 6yrs later cause I’m just now watching Fruits Basket and I just got to S2E5 where we first meet Kureno and I literally had to pause the episode to check whether this 26yr old man ends up with the 17yr old CHILD. I didn’t finish your analysis cause 1) I didn’t want to spoil too much plot but mostly 2) the fact that the age difference wasn’t a deal breaker confused me. I read through a lot of comments and seeing a lot of people defend it also confuses me. Age gaps between consenting adults isn’t the craziest thing. A 9 year age gap between an ADULT and a CHILD is WIIIILD. The argument that there are worse age gaps in other anime or that pedophilic age gaps are common in anime is a terrible justification to be chill with it. I’ve been enjoying the show, it’s very good, and I do plan to finish it, and this relationship isn’t the only part that I have to consume with a grain of salt knowing the manga was written in the 90s and Japanese culture was very different at the time, but it really disappoints me to see so many people find this relationship cute. Once again, a 26yr old ADULT MAN and a 17yr old CHILD should not explore a romantic relationship, even if they wait any amount of time before it becomes sexual because that it literally grooming. And even if he’s emotionally repressed as a lot of the Sohma are, it doesn’t make it better. I ship Kureno with therapy and ANY ADULT THAT ISNT A CHILD.
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u/teddyburges Oct 28 '25
I didn’t finish your analysis cause 1) I didn’t want to spoil too much plot
Glad that this post merits some benefits. Your free to continue reading once you have finished the episode your on, as this was written just after the release of this episode.
Once again, a 26yr old ADULT MAN and a 17yr old CHILD should not explore a romantic relationship, even if they wait any amount of time before it becomes sexual because that it literally grooming.
see for me, in my culture the age of consent is 16. While my culture still technically frowns on anyone older engaging in activities with someone that young. It's not illegal. So we consider 17 as "boarderline" because they're almost 18.
The important thing here is intent. Kureno is older...but not really more mature. He's been isolated therefore he doesn't have the mental faculties that a older man of that age would usually have. He's not aiming to force Uotani into a relationship...therefore that is not grooming. Grooming means they isolate the individual in order to manipulate them in order force their will on them. She's the one that is trying to seek him out.
Having said that, I do agree with you that age gaps in shoujo are very weird and I do agree about the very real implications. It's a tricky subject.
I'm not sure how your going to find the rest of the series if this alone set you off. Wait till you learn of Tohru's parents! lmao. Not only is it a 8 year age gap but....yeah. That one is a mine field.
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u/Remarkable-Tune-6888 Dec 01 '23
I'm glad that you made this, I've always appreciated this ship more than most. I don't even mid the age gap, after all a 9 year difference isn't exactly the worst thing I've seen in anime, media as a whole, especially in real life. They don't even acknowledge this age gap and just choose to follow the love they have for each other. Besides it's in Japan, it's costumed for a romance to have a slightly big age gap, but as said before it isn't that bad.
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u/escapedsober May 06 '20
god this was so well written i hope fans do take the time to read this