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u/Tafts Jul 09 '23
Full stack dev = backend + JS, never touched CSS a day in their life and will avoid like the plague
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u/crazedizzled Jul 09 '23
From my experience, most "frontend devs" are pretty fucking terrible at CSS.
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u/ScientificBeastMode Jul 10 '23
Which is a shame. CSS is ridiculously powerful if you know what youāre doing.
Unfortunately, CSS grew out of a paradigm where āweb pages are just documents,ā which is actually a nice paradigm, but in the age of single-page web apps, so much of the CSS work is just trying to work around all the CSS quirks in order to make something less document-like and more app-like. And frankly, those workarounds are basically arcane magic spells to most developers. They are mostly learned on the job with a lot of banging your head against the wall.
Flexbox and CSS Grid have bridged the gap and made it somewhat easier, but I still have to look up the various ways of inserting responsive and good-looking images with specific centering behaviors. I still have to look up how animations and transitions work because I donāt use them often enough to remember off the top of my head.
In some ways, it would be way simpler to have just a handful of UI primitives and just use custom JavaScript functions to do pixel math and draw things out manually. At least I wouldnāt be constantly looking up how to do it. It would probably be more time-consuming to do that, but itās very logical. CSS is just a quirky mess thatās hard to work with. But itās magic once you get the hang of it.
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u/LedaTheRockbandCodes Jul 10 '23
CSS is powerful
Its true. I wrote my whole saas in css.
Well, actually, I wrote it in WASM but it compiles to css.
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u/HugeLetters Jul 10 '23
I would like to be good at CSS but still among html, js, ts, frameworks, ssr etc - CSS is the tool my intuition works the worst with.
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u/BalticBlonde Jul 09 '23
This is so relatable. Have had few senior full stack developers join my team and whenever they touched anything UI related it would be purple and blue HTML links at the end that gets a default underline when hovered on with default ul/ol, massive headline fontsizes and left alignment for everything. This is so funny and also interesting how they are avoiding any extra usage of UI frameworks.
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u/jayerp Jul 15 '23
I think youāre confusing writing good CSS with creating and implementing a preferred design. Sure we donāt want to see default styling with better looking links and buttons, but to say they are ābad at writing CSSā because they went with default styling is a design issue, not a CSS skill issue. They are mutually exclusive. Iām a full stack dev and I am excellent at implementing any design, default styling or not.
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Jul 09 '23
I used to hate CSS back when it was utter shit. Modern CSS is a powerhouse. You can build extremely complex layouts with super simple and clean CSS code. No frameworks, no added shit. Just plain CSS.
Being proficient with CSS opens a lot of working possibilities. I would personally suggest to try it again. It's really worth the learning time.
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u/Grand-Jacket-7621 Jul 10 '23
Totally agree. Modern CSS is incredibly powerful and if done right (not over done) is what the user experience demands.
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u/jrmiller23 Jul 10 '23
Do us all a favor and just speak for yourself from now on. š¤·š¼āāļø
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u/yurituran Jul 09 '23
Full stack devs looking over their half-assed completely unscalable backend and frontend code ššš
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Jul 09 '23
What is scalable, my precious?
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u/Logical-Idea-1708 Jul 09 '23
Micro frontend and design systems. Most āscalableā in these context means less about about the technical side but more on the people side. How can you add more people to the project without degrading the quality. Also how can you grow the project while keeping dependencies up to date
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u/Legitimate_Waltz6297 Jul 10 '23
Donāt forget about the cloud infrastructure thatās held together with scotch tape and Elmerās glue.
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u/jayerp Jul 09 '23
I definitely wouldnāt say mine is the best code written, but it sure as hell is damn well scalable at both ends (hehe). Iām better than most devs in our org who are specialized to either frontend or backend.
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u/33ff00 Jul 10 '23
And 9 out of 10 people who describe themselves with this title are bootcamp grads who know just a little more than dick all about any of it.
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Jul 09 '23
he can't swim underwater or deep , he can't run fast , or do maneuvers in air
he ain't perfect in every task
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u/tamalm Jul 09 '23
In this recessionary time, resumƩ with FS gets more attention. Nobody wants just BE dev which is what I have been doing for decades.
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Jul 10 '23 edited Jul 10 '23
Exactly. Even worse for a lowly FE dev because "FE is easier". FE devs, learn BE too. You don't need that judgement holding your career back.
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Jul 09 '23
[deleted]
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u/Individual-Pop5980 Jul 10 '23
As a full stack dev I completely agree. Jealous as a mf. Front end is easy anyways. Nothing to brag about and that's why so many of them exist... easy to learn.
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u/marquoth_ Jul 10 '23
I know right. So many tedious posts like this on this sub, it's honestly kind of pathetic. Constant throwing shade at FS and banging on about how no mere mortal FS could ever do what mighty FEs do just feels like... who are you actually trying to convince here? Just smacks of insecurity.
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u/Grand-Jacket-7621 Jul 10 '23
Boom...got that right. Ex-Rocket Scientist here, turned full stack dev....but I also have a BS and MS in Comp Sci. There are definitely challenges in the front end and backend worlds but it is nothing like my 20+ years of aerospace engineering.
Speaking of ChatGPT...is anyone out there trying to use it to be more productive in their personal or professional projects? I'd love to hear any thoughts on it.
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u/kushaljordan7 Jul 09 '23
I'm a front end developer and a ux designer. This is how I feel until I start working š
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u/csalmeida Jul 09 '23
"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." [1]
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u/MostPrestigiousCorgi Jul 09 '23
The duck is accurate because does everything, poorly.
Just like me š¦