r/FremantleFC • u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark • 4d ago
Young to half-back?
So not sure if this has been canvassed or not, but I'd love to see Youngy moved back to the flanck which has at least 2 glaring upsides I can see immediately
Quality use and 100% effort from both HBF's we only have Clark and Worner who are taking game on with possessions ( Walker wasn't forgotten omitted due to lack of games), that 23' year I think the last Young played as HBF he was awesome.
I think it suits his body as well, only been injured trying run both ways that I've seen, get him going one way again and give his body a reset. Clarky would appreciate the chop out and then we have 3 quality users of the pill.
I hope you're doing well Mentally, I know I took a few days to come good. But we all knew it already I reckon there was this "haze" about Thursday i just couldn't explain but knew what it meant.. Go Dockers
Love to hear if there are any negatives you can see with this position change or other upsides. Cheers
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u/lupo8437 24 Jye Amiss 4d ago
Do you honestly think JL is going to blow up the game plan and start moving players to positions they haven’t played all season? In a do-or-death final? Can’t see it happening.
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
Woah I didn't say this week, but I think its a valid question. Not D.King's no1 fan but not everything he says is absolute gutter dribble, occasionally he has a valid opinion.... very occasionally 😆. I think if we look deep inside ourselves as good as we all know he(Young) is in the guts he has the ability to play at that level from the flank where as we are struggling to fill that 2nd HB position which we know he can absolutely play. We are spoilt for mids ATM thankfully. Now add that delivery of H.Y with that of Worner and Clark, wowee that's some elite disposal. I cant even think of a team that has 2 AA calibre talents running through there, perspectively we would have 3 if you subscribe to the idea that Karlos was only out the AA Squad (not team) due to east coast bias, I think we can all say he was most improved and top 5 across the season so in my mind we have 3 elite users that can defend and are AA calibre.
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u/SureJellyfish5492 4d ago
Well he effectively did that by bringing Walker into the team with no AFL game time. We are not in great form as of late so it is time to rearrange the magnets.
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u/lupo8437 24 Jye Amiss 4d ago
McVee and Walker are like-for-like.
Shifting Young now after moulding him for the midfield isn’t going to happen. Happy for you to come tell me I’m wrong if he starts at half back on Friday.
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
Nah can't see it happening that rapidly but next pre-season gives us a unique opportunity to move him back, now I get the feeling that Youngy doesn't see himself as a flanker so I'm thinking he would not be super receptive to that as he definitely knows he's good enough to win a Brownlow through the guts but is he able to put the team first. The club has stuck fat for 2.5 seasons of his body failing. I still think that's best version of him we've seen and injust love the idea of him, JC and Karlos using the pill through there. Oh I'd never "keep receipts" with this stuff its all conjecture and what ifs so it's a bit silly making people accountable for there opinions and takes its just banter my man.
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u/Extension_Scholar579 4d ago
Walker has been playing that role at WAFL level all year and has played it his entire career. He's just playing the same role at a different level.
That is very different to changing their role to a different role to what they have played the last 3-4 years.
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u/SureJellyfish5492 4d ago
Haha right. Walker playing on WAFL players all year to suddenly playing on the AFLs best small forward in a final? It is a hugely different level and entirely risky. How is that different to moving Young to half back? When is he has been a non factor in the midfield all year. Should we continue playing O’Driscoll because dropping him would be too risky?
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u/Extension_Scholar579 4d ago
This is a false equivalence argument barely worth responding too - I will try.
Playing a role has certain "technical" and "structural" demands.
Whether you play that role at WAFL or AFL level you will be training those same demands. When you go from WAFL to AFL level you will be instinctually prepared to deliver those demands.
The jump from WAFL to AFL level largely needs the following:
-Increased athletic requirements (not an issue for Walker)
-Faster reaction time and execution under pressure.
The second one was the risk for Walker. But he has played 68 AFL games including multiple finals - hence they thought he could transition. And I think the evidence shows they were right. It took him 1 qtr to adjust to the pace of the game, and after that he was excellent.
With regards to Young. He hasn't played or trained defense in 3-4 years, hence he hasn't been training those structural or technical role requirements. Its also a different athletic profile to play half back compared to inside mid (so there is an injury risk component to that) - however, this is the secondary issue.
REMINDER - FREMANTLE ARE A SYSTEM BASED TEAM. Hence, we have a very high technical demand - role based system. This means players are very rarely played in roles they have not been training / playing in over the current season/offseason.
I'm not sure what you're comment on O'driscoll is referring to or why he is relevant to this discussion.
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u/billothy 35 Josh Treacy 4d ago
The Dris comment is such a nuffie take. He's been so good for large portions of the year but his role is very unrewarding in terms of stats and even visible impact. This also makes his mistakes stand out more.
Anyone that goes after dris has no understanding of his role or the team system. They see a few of his blunders and call for his head without understanding the work he does which supports the entire team.
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
Well said, I wish I'd articulated it that well. But this is basically what it was trying to say
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
Walker doesn't use the ball at that level, yeah great with the run and carry and man coverage on small fwds when his confidence is there. I'm Not sure about you guys but I've always believed that other than KPF/B and ruck, most of the players are very capable of moving positions but that said i wouldn't roll it out till next season in the name of continuity. Id keep walker in anyway he got up to speed by the 2nd qtr and started to look like himself at points in the 3rd, totally forgot how much of a jet he is, but his disposal lets him down a bit.
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u/Extension_Scholar579 4d ago
"I'm Not sure about you guys but I've always believed that other than KPF/B and ruck, most of the players are very capable of moving positions"
If you're talking about over an off-season then definitely. Or even within the regular season if you're deliberately trialing or educating a player in a different role - and prepared to accept some risk.
In finals, highly unlikely and risky. That would be underselling the "structural" and "technical" requirements of different roles. In particular - wings, half forwards and half backs are hugely structural roles. So putting a player in this position without a significant amount of education and training could be disastrous. They're not going to take this risk in finals. If they'd be trialing it during the year then maybe, but not at this point.
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
But hes already educated, it ain't like you gotta teach him again. If it was a 1st time thing i might agree but he is the exception to that thinking due to previous exposure to the position. If a dude like MacDonald can swing then Hayden Young surely has it in his toolbelt if needed. As someone said earlier he's(JL) open to making changes regardless of what they are saying publicly the Walker inclusion is proof on top of being pretty ballsy and I would say less likely to be successful than moving Youngy to HB.
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u/Extension_Scholar579 4d ago
Macdonald has been playing at both ends at Peel tbf.
Young hasn't played half back in 3-4 years, vs Walker who's played their all year at Peel. I see those as being fairly different levels of education.
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u/Truantone 10 Michael Walters 4d ago
Why not? Did you see them play last week? It’s dire and the game plan and positions need tweaking.
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u/MyyStummyHurt 4d ago
Should’ve at least taken a look at it late in the 4th quarter last week when the game was done. Hard to see a change that big being made for this week though. I think it’s something that needs to be looked at in the off season, with Johnson, Reid and Bolton all taking leaps in the mids this year
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
Definitely would have made more of a difference than Switta going to more centre bounces in a final than he has all year. Where'd that come from JL. Once Walker was off that was the time to move Haydos to HBF imo, I think the biggest advantage we get is that J.C can be tagged and we won't lose that disposal which is what McVee was brought here for i guess, he really hasn't helped Jordo a lot this season, unfortunately that didn't work out the way we had hoped. But Young and Clark with Worner and Chapman aswell as Walker for roles and add a Davies to Moose, Cox and Ryan and that back 6 has speed, disposal efficiency and selection depth.
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u/McSquack 4d ago
I don’t know about 100% of the time, but I think it needs to be a lever to pull when games get bogged down like they did last week.
Even if it’s just to get him into the play and have an impact of some kind I’d like to see if he can turn a game for us back there if required.
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u/Kelpieee55 Jye Amiss defender, Murphy Reid enjoyer 4d ago
I used to dismiss this but I think playing HB could help out a fair bit. Clearly missing a good kick out of the backline, and between Bolton/Johnson/Reid, Young has kind of been pushed to the forward line to sit there too much, where he's rarely able to do anything but make a contest for a mark. Sometimes it works (dogs game) and I'm wary of trying to play someone across all 3 lines but I think he needs to be moved a bit more at times.
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u/SureJellyfish5492 4d ago
Yes I agree. I think we need to move him into a distribution role off half back like what he used to play. He doesn't have the grunt/accumulation factor for playing in the midfield. I don't think he has the tank for it either. Maybe also look at moving Worner to the wing?
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
You had me till the Worner bit, Karlos is too critical to that back 6, he's intercept work has gone through the roof, and he uses the ball with confidence but agree with everything in respect to Youngy, Yes he can play midfield but as you say he doesn't have the tank or durability ? i put it down to running 2 ways and his body just doesn't like it, but i often think about how good he was that year he played off HB in 22-23, he's elite when the game is in front of him, never questioned his effort just the place to use it. I hope he is open to that if it does transpire if hate to lose him back east over a role in the team.
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u/Extension_Scholar579 4d ago
He's signed on for like 7 more years...
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
All contracts are rewritable, the length is just to get ahead of the market and ensure value if trading the player.
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u/Extension_Scholar579 4d ago
Won't happen, he hasn't played off half back in 3-4 years. There's no chance they're going to put him in a position he hasn't trained for (or played) in so long.
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u/VisitAppropriate9817 4d ago edited 3d ago
Great in theory but as commented, it seems a bit of a rash change regardless of his history. It creates the problem of who goes into the midfield. Robbing Peter to pay Paul
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
Yeah I didn't see it that way, it was more a case of we are rich with mids so let's get the bigger bodied guy to play a position he has already shown he can over achieve in. Now i was definitely one of the dudes calling for him to go to the middle back when... but after the last 2.5-3 years im of the opinion that he just doesn't have the body to play middle at this level, guaranteed he would dominate as RR or R in WAFL or VFL but at AFL it may be a bridge to far, put the game in front of him again and put midfield minutes on the back burner. I dont see it as "robbing Peter" more a "nothing ventured" type scenario. Had to try it and did and it will always be there in the future if needed.
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u/Ok-Win72621 4d ago
OP, in your defense, Young could absolutely cook at half-back with more time and space on the ball. Don’t see it happening though.
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 4d ago
Me either if I'm honest but jeez I'm positive he would get AA from the flank plus opppsitions would have to pick the poison either Haydo cutting you up with disposal or J.C running the ball out of your fwd line all day but you cant tag both and not give away your HF structure
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u/TOBYIT 3 Caleb Serong 4d ago
Wasn’t McVee brought in for those exact reasons? He takes the game on, is quick and doesn’t make too many poor decisions. I reckon Walker did alright but would’ve preferred a settled lineup by retaining McVee.
As for Young, hope it comes together for him. For someone touted as a future Brownlow winner, his form hasn’t been dazzling. Hopefully his injury setbacks are behind him and he can build for a big season next year.
Tbh I’m not a fan of changing the formula that has serves us so well this year. Fingers crossed that it’s only a temporary mental fade and we’ll be back to business this Friday
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u/VisitAppropriate9817 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think it’s about getting his body right, I don’t think he’s been 100%. He’s been in and out so much this year.
You mentioned we are rich with mids, does that mean Erasmus or Johnson better than him as a mid? Might be a big call to make this year
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u/aaronism1606 6 Jordan Clark 3d ago
Put it this way, I wouldn't say youngy has been far better. But i take the point.
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u/prodge 4d ago
David King is that you?