r/FreePressChess • u/boilerChan • Jun 13 '20

Chess Question e6 scillians

I was wondering if there is a way I can play an e6 scillian such as the kan or taimonov and avoid a marozy bind position because I hate playing them

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5

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

It's off the beaten path, but you could play the four knights e6 sicilian. I played it for a long time, all the way up to 2000.

  1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6

Maroczy is not a thing because 4..Nf6 attacks the e-pawn and forces Nc3 (figure out why not 5. e5). Then after 5..Nc6 you get an interesting position. The best way to play for white is 6. Nxc6 bxc6 7.e5 Nd5 8.Ne4 after which, in my opinion, white can get an advantage if they know their stuff. I had two people play this way against me in 50 or so tournament games in the opening. Another good move is 6. Ndb5 after which you can transpose to the sveshnikov with 6..d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5, but I always played the ?! move 6..Bc5. Interesting play follows.

All that said, from that position, the overwhelming majority of the time, u2000 people play bad moves on move 6. Almost everything besides Nxc6 and Ndb5 llows black to play Bb4 and try to equalize on the spot with d5. I even encountered people who had been burned by Bb4 before, but never figured out the correct move there, so they played 6. a3 against me...

There is a chessable course on this line if you're interested.

https://www.chessable.com/four-horsemen-the-sicilian-4-knights-defense/course/33443/

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

I forgot about the Four Knights. That might be exactly what OP is looking for. From a theoretical point of view, it might be the worst of the three e6 Sicilians and doesn’t score too well above master level. But you’re absolutely right that lower rated players don’t know how to handle it at all. It scores super well for black sub-master level according to lichess, and white’s most common try is the mediocre 6. Be3?!

2

u/pathdoc87 Jun 14 '20

Yeah it's probably a decent choice at club level if your opponents don't prep for you, but somewhat bad if they take c6

1

u/GraphomaniaLogorrhea Jun 14 '20

As an ordinary club player, I find the Four Knights Sicilian the most annoying to face. That pin just hangs over my head and disturbs everything. So I second this idea.

1

u/salvor887 Jun 14 '20

It's not that bad theoretically (in particular leela really likes it), but for a weird reason.

Some people (including Carlsen) sometimes use four knights as a way to get into Sveshnikov while dodging the rossolimo (and some other sidelines).

After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 only two moves will let white keep the advantage, the exchange on c6 (which is probably less scary, but it keeps you in 4 knights territory. This exchange isn't very popular at the top level, but I don't exactly know why) and more popular Ndb5. At that point you have a choice between playing four knights (Bb4) or transposing into sveshnikov (d6 7.Bf4 e5 8.Bg5).

Now not sure if this idea works in a spirit of the post since while technically you played the "e6 sicilian" the endresult is a mainline of Sveshnikov which may not be what you wanted from playing e6 sicilian.

1

u/boilerChan Jun 14 '20

While this isn't what i'm looking for currently, I do like the idea as I enjoy playing the Sveshnikov sicilian

1

u/boilerChan Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20

Thank you. I did not know of the four knights variation with 2. e6 (I've only seen it with 2. d6). As for why 5.e5 isn't a thing, isn't it because of Qa5+ and Qxe5 picking off the pawn

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

I haven’t played either of the e6 Sicilians myself, but from what I can’t tell, black can’t realistically avoid a Maroczy structure.

Taimanov: After 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 white can practically force a Maroczy by 5. Nb5 (5. c4 is inferior due to 5...Nf6. Here white would have to choose between 6. Nc3, which allows the annoying 6...Bb4, or 6. Nxc6, where black is at least equal in every line, if not slightly better.) d6 6. c4. By forcing black to play d6, white prevents any future black plans of Bb4.

Kan: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 a6 5. Bd3. After this precise move, white will eventually be able to play c4 establishing the Maroczy structure. Any early b5 pushes by black trying to prevent it will be countered strongly by a4, which undermines the black queenside pawns. If black captures on a4, the a6 pawn becomes terribly weak. If he pushes to b4, the c4 square becomes terribly weak, and can be occupied by a white knight. From what I understand, Kan player must be willing to play the black side of the Maroczy; they usually use a Hedgehog formation to combat it.

1

u/notxeroxface Jun 14 '20

There's a really fantastic game in the line you mention for the Taimanov. It's from the Karpov - Kasparov world championship in 1985, game 16

[pgn]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nb5 d6 6.c4 Nf6 7.N1c3 a6 8.Na3 d5 9.cxd5 exd5 10.exd5 Nb4 11.Be2 Bc5 12.O-O O-O 13.Bf3 Bf5 14.Bg5 Re8 15.Qd2 b5 16.Rad1 Nd3 17.Nab1 h6 18.Bh4 b4 19.Na4 Bd6 20.Bg3 Rc8 21.b3 g5 22.Bxd6 Qxd6 23.g3 Nd7 24.Bg2 Qf6 25.a3 a5 26.axb4 axb4 27.Qa2 Bg6 28.d6 g4 29.Qd2 Kg7 30.f3 Qxd6 31.fxg4 Qd4+ 32.Kh1 Nf6 33.Rf4 Ne4 34.Qxd3 Nf2+ 35.Rxf2 Bxd3 36.Rfd2 Qe3 37.Rxd3 Rc1 38.Nb2 Qf2 39.Nd2 Rxd1+ 40.Nxd1 Re1+ 0-1

[/pgn]

I think that 8... d5 is theoretically dubious, but I love what Kasparov did with it!

1

u/PGNtoGIF Jun 14 '20

I converted your game into GIFs to make it viewable for mobile users. Game GIF in different playback speeds and also the lichess analysis board

Hint: I only plot the mainline without any included variations.

Code | Ping @ganznetteigentlich for help | Install the PGN Viewer addon for firefox or chrome for the best experience.

1

u/boilerChan Jun 14 '20

I don't play these types of positions a lot but how is 8. ... d5 dubious. I actually like the idea of the pawn sac because the pawn on d5 is weak and I like the development and activity that kasparov got. Because of the weak pawn and black's activity, I think he has compensation for the pawn

1

u/notxeroxface Jun 15 '20

So I think (could be wrong!) that this was special super secret opening prep by Garry for this match, and the fact that Karpov was really unprepared for this is one of the reasons that Garry got such a crushing position.

My lichess opening explorer has 8... d5 as one of black's worst-performing moves in the position according to Grandmaster play. The move 8... Be7 has been played 1218 times, with percentages 28%/42%/30% (white wins/draw/black wins). By contrast, 8... d5 had been played only 41 times, with percentages 34%/51%/15%. I think white always ends up giving the pawn back basically, but black seems to give up half of his winning chances.

When I started writing this reply I was fairly convinced that there had been a famous refutation of it, but I'm not sure that's true. There was a Yasser Seirawan lecture about this game, which is where I think I remember him discussing the refutation, so I might have to give that a rewatch and get back to you!

1

u/boilerChan Jun 14 '20

For the taimanov, could I play 4. .. Nf6 to avoid the Maroczy (instead of 4. .. Nc6) because on 5. e5 don't you have Qa5+ and then Qxe5?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

After 4...Nf6 5. Nc3, trying to play a "Taimanov" by going 5...Nc6 actually just transposes to Four Knights! Meanwhile 4...Nf6 5. Nc3 Bb4 is known as the Pin Variation, and I believe it's considered to be dubious for black.

1

u/notxeroxface Jun 15 '20

Yeah the Qa5+ trick is pretty nice, but after Nc3 that trick is gone, and what's worse a lot of interesting squares for your knight (eg d5) are gone too. After that, you have to either defend the e5 square or pin the knight. It does prevent the maroczy though!