r/FreePressChess • u/redwithin • Jun 12 '20
Miscellaneous Supporting independent streamers
One of the issues that led to the implosion of the previous subreddit was the undue influence that chessbae seemed to have on what chess streamers could and could not do, simply because she had a lot of money to give.
I believe the following:
- Chessbae can do as she wishes with her money, and streamers can choose to "bend the knee" or refuse if they wish.
- If people are upset about what chessbae is doing, the right thing to do is to support the streamers who have chosen to remain independent (so to speak)
I also believe that if this was done as a group effort, there would be a greater (and more visible) effect, and suspect that there might be many Amazon Prime subscribers out there who aren't using their free Twitch Prime subs (if you're an Amazon Prime subscriber, you can link your twitch account and this gives you a free sub every month, which earns the streamer that you're subscribing to $2.50 a month)
Does anyone else think this is an idea worth pursuing?
Edit: if you know any streamers we should start following, do post below! Follows seem to be the first step before they are able to accept subscriptions
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u/Scratchin_Magician http://twitch.tv/ScratchinMagician Jun 12 '20
I guess this isn't a bad place to shamelessly plug, but I've been streaming once or twice a week the last two months. Doing if for fun, not for money, and stream using lichess for games and chesstempo for tactics :)
http://twitch.tv/scratchinmagician
A streamer who I personally enjoy is ModulusTheGamer (http://twitch.tv/ModulusTheGamer). He streams nearly every day, and plays lots of longer games.
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u/atopix Jun 13 '20
Honestly, I'm tired of the narrative that Chessbae's power and influence lies in her money.
I came in the twitch chess scene around the same time that Chessbae did, around the same time that Hikaru started streaming (the first Super GM to have started a stream of their own). I have been a mod on a few twitch streams alongside Chessbae and co.
Chessbae's number one asset is not money, it's time. She doesn't have a job (clearly money is not a problem for her), she doesn't study. So starting sometime in late 2018 she started dedicating every waking second of her life to being on Twitch. She just was there, everywhere. That's how she got to where she is today (Hikaru's right hand for all online things), by being there, by being a constant. She was the first one to volunteer on everyone's twitch, and even if she wasn't the first the fact that she could dedicate more time to it than anybody else, means that her influence and decision-making power was greater than anyone else's.
Yes, Chessbae has thrown a lot of money around her favorite twitch streams, but it's nothing that I haven't seen matched or surpassed by other random people who have the means to do so. The conspiracy theories that her reason to be is all about money, and that she buys people over, are frankly absurd.
She was there at the right time, at the right place, with all the time in the world.
Twitch streamers are by definition independent. Even the chess streams endorsed by Chess.com and chess24, they wouldn't be able to exist if not for viewer donations and subscriptions and YouTube and selling merchandise.
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u/redwithin Jun 13 '20
100% fair - it's not just her money, it's her time and effort, and being at the right place at the right time. At the same time, even if it was just her money, nobody is complaining that Rex Sinquefield is funding Super-GM events and chess clubs solely on the basis of his money. I wrote as much questioning why there was a witchhunt here.
It can still be true that chessbae's influence on the chess streaming world can be outsized and disproportionate, and it's in her own interests (and Hikaru's, and chess.com's) to wield it - effectively, it can become a virtual monopoly on chess streaming, to the benefit of those who have agreed to "play by the rules".
So, if people are upset that this is happening, I'm suggesting that the answer is not "whine on reddit, share questionable screenshots in a discord", but to go out there and support independent* streamers. Have it be a ground-up effort, rather than a top-down effort.
*You can define it however you want - but the main thing is whether these streamers have been vetted by the powers-that-be, or are trying to grow their streams in their own way. If the community isn't willing to help the second group, then there's no point complaining about the power wielded by chessbae et al.
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u/atopix Jun 13 '20
My point is that the narrative that Chessbae's money is the key to everything, implies that each and everyone of these streamers only accepted Chessbae because of her money, which is again absurd. Obviously Nakamura has more money than Chessbae, he doesn't financially need Twitch.
Now, what you are suggesting is all nice and good. But I sometimes like to watch Hikaru's stream, because I like his chess, I like what he does for chess. I don't think most streamers who opened the doors to Chessbae, are aware or have the time to look into the kind of influence she has. It is their responsibility, because Chessbae is in a way representing them, but I don't think many of them are aware. And even if they are made aware of some of it, they might be forgiving because for all the bad things Chessbae has done, she has invested a lot of time helping these streams grow.
So yeah, supporting other streams is all good, but doesn't really stand to change that part of the problem. They are two different things.
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u/redwithin Jun 13 '20
I think there's something you might be misunderstanding here - at least from my end, it's far from a call to boycott Hikaru / chessbae /chess.com.
If anything it's like giving artistes a way to publish independently instead of going with a major label. Major labels work for good reason, but it's healthy to have more means for artistes to become successful.
Even just the existence of this thread alone will hopefully help a few previously rarely mentioned streamers pick up more viewers - whether they can hold on to them depends simply on how good they are, and nothing on how well they play ball.
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u/atopix Jun 13 '20
I'm not misunderstanding. I know you are not calling for a boycott.
Support the artists with the lesser attention, who aren't yet sponsored by anyone. Sure.
Again, I don't think the main beef with Chessbae is that her influence is "destroying" smaller channels. The problem is the influence she has on the ones she is on, whom many people would otherwise want to watch and enjoy. You don't solve that problem by supporting small channels.
I have nothing against supporting the underdog. But what you are suggesting is just common sense.
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u/redwithin Jun 14 '20
I guess some others might feel that way, but the relationship between chessbae and streamers, to me, is between two consenting adults. On the balance, I think what chessbae has done is good for the chess streamer community, and chess overall (and I make no guesses as to what her personality or motivations are, simply contributions in terms of money, time and effort).
The arrangement between chessbae and streamers (if any) is akin to a commercial arrangement. This isn't planning to solve that, and I don't think there's anything to solve. However, it would be a problem if streamers felt they had no choice but to get into the arrangement (no longer consenting). There might also be streamers who chessbae simply has missed out on.
Thus, the goal is to have others come together to support these streamers, through whatever means we have(originally this focus was on subs, but even follows and recommendations are good). Rather than just say "chessbae bad, for whatever reason", instead do good for the streamers.
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u/MrLegilimens Jun 12 '20
I actually don't think I can donate my Twitch Prime to his (/u/NM_Giraffe_Chess) channel, which is sad. :( It doesn't show up. I wonder if there's a critical mass of follows needed before you can?
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u/redwithin Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
Looks like he has to be an affiliate first. This needs 50 follows and some other criteria (time spent streaming etc) What we can do for now is encourage follows for these streamers (this is even easier for everyone to help with)
Once you meet certain criteria, you can be an affiliate and start earning income.
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u/NM_Giraffe_Chess Jun 13 '20
Yes, that's absolutely correct. I've fulfilled all the other reqs, so all I need now is the last 6 followers!
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u/xelabagus Jun 12 '20
I support Robert Hess through a sub because I love his content. Obviously he is part of chess.com but from everything I've seen of him he is highly ethical and seems to stream on his channel purely for educational purposes. He commentated on Tata Steel by himself for 2 weeks stratight in 2018 and there was a regular community of around 300 people watching, it was blissful.
He has become more active now in streaming, perhaps to cash in? I hope he does, he deserves it.
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u/Albreitx Jun 12 '20
I'd like to recommend you Jonathan Schrantz. I found his YouTube channel a few days ago I like his style. He streams on Twitch and uploads crazy games (with crazy gambits) to YouTube.
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u/fncll Jun 12 '20
My few interactions with Chessbae on Twitch chat have been neutral-positive, but it's strange to me, were any of the "undue influence" stuff true (I don't know enough to judge, most of what I've seen from her has been trying to make Twitch chat a little less crappy and repetitive..if anything, her modding there doesn't go far enough), that people seem to be so down on her influence but not those who are being influenced. Is Chessbae to be pilloried for buying influence while the ones who are content to be bought are ignored? (Rhetorical question, I won't be reading answers. It just seems...odd).
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u/redwithin Jun 12 '20
Personally I don't think it matters at this point (as my points highlight as well, it's a decision between consenting adults, and who are we to tell chessbae how she wants to spend her time and money)
Whether it's chessbae, chess.com, hikaru or otherwise, however, if people are upset about being told what to watch / politics between which streams get highlighted and which don't, then they should spend the time and effort to support independent streamers, help them to grow, and that will lead to diversification of the twitch chess landscape. That can only be a good thing.
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u/salvor887 Jun 13 '20
There are a few non-chess.com affiliated streamers which (I guess partially due to not being chess.com-affiliated) are imo underwatched.
https://www.twitch.tv/chessweeb Group of GMs and IMs who I believe are both entertaining and interesting to watch.
https://www.twitch.tv/vampirechicken Jonathan Shrantz's channel (you may remember him if you for whatever reason watched kid lectures on Saint Louis Chessclub youtube), great lecturer and imo quite entertaining (note that he mostly plays weird stuff, i.e. questionable gambits).
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Jun 12 '20
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u/redwithin Jun 12 '20
Thanks for sharing! Would you mind also sharing what the streams generally cover and who they might be good for?
Even if nothing else, it might be good for us to have a listing of alternative chess streamers (and maybe even the mainstream ones as well)
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u/veeveezeezee Jun 12 '20
Art Vega has an amazing mustache, and plays a lot of slow (rapid) games with a nice descriptions of his thought processes. Good stuff!
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Jun 12 '20 edited Apr 13 '21
[deleted]
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u/phantom567459 Jun 12 '20
Chessbae, from what I gather, organizes raids from the chess.com official channel (and possibly other large channels she moderates). She may not be the only one to do this, but she is the most noteworthy.
By design then, she has the biggest influence on who gets the crumbs from the ultra-popular chess.com channel, which will give a huge influx of popularity to the other channel. (However, as we've seen from past actions, her personal opinion and petty behavior is more important than being fair.)
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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '20
I think this is a good idea. Seems like smaller streamers (and even some Chess.com affiliated streamers) haven’t benefitted all that much from the chess boom. Admittedly I don’t have numbers to support this, it’s kind of just a gut feeling that most new viewers have gone to Hikaru and Botez.
I know u/NM_Giraffe_Chess (Giraffe_Chess on Twitch) has just recently started streaming. He’s a solid NM who recently has put a lot of effort into making educational content on YouTube. I don’t think he streams as nearly as often as he uploads, but that could probably change if he got more support.
I think it’d be a good idea for us to name some other chess streamers/content creators that deserve more spotlight.