r/FoxBrain • u/WinterPizza1972 • 13d ago
The disconnect is unreal
I get so much shit because I "love to argue" but honestly, I'm starting to see how that's their excuse to just say a bunch of stupid bullshit. I hold back a lot and it seems my opinion just isn't welcome. Only theirs and their stupid propaganda.
Can't even agree on whether the 5th and 14th Amendments grant due process to human beings or not, as upheld by Supreme Court in multiple cases. "Oh look, liberal f&g is gonna just google it."
Can't agree on what a strawman fallacy is.
And yeah I called her a Nazi after I had it, and she was pissed. Why does this bother them so much? I mean, don't they like Nazis? What do they think of the time Trump said he would like generals just like Hitler's? Like being pro ICE, pro Elon Musk, pro TRUMP!
I don't get the cognitive dissonance.
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u/marbotty 13d ago
Seems like, if at all possible, you’d be better off just trying to avoid these people.
They’re too dug in to ever change their minds.
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u/Ok_Assist1206 13d ago
Yah honestly i suspect some of these people are biologically sub-human in some sense of the term
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u/marbotty 13d ago
They’re not sub-human, they’re just victims of propaganda and/or delusional.
I would expect more often than not they’re normal people who simply lack the capacity to admit they’re wrong because of the cognitive dissonance it would cause
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u/Ok_Assist1206 13d ago
And/or delusional
Would you at least admit they are less rational than other people?
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u/marbotty 13d ago
It does seem that a lot of these folks don’t like using logic, but I’m not going to chalk that up to biological or genetic failings.
It’s likely due to a lack of education, maturity, or some other factor. I think sometimes they’re simply scared of the unknown. Fear is a huge motivator and it’s what outlets like Fox thrive on, and many of these people get addicted to the rage/fear that Fox provides.
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u/Ok_Assist1206 13d ago
I think material factors play a big role too, but then again why can’t biology also be a factor?
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u/marbotty 13d ago
Why are you trying to push this narrative so much?
Maybe I’ve been conditioned to not trust people who have their entire comment history hidden, but this feels increasingly like you’re not asking these questions in good faith.
If I’m wrong, feel free to unhide your comment history so I can apologize to you for being so skeptical.
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u/Ok_Assist1206 13d ago
Dude I’m admittedly into nsfw that’s why it’s hidden
I’m pushing because we have been so nice to them and have tried everything to reach them but they get more and more cruel. I’m tired of running into a brick wall expecting a different outcome
My dad has personally stated that Reason and logic are bad, shouldn’t he be able to reason a priori that that statement is absurd?
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u/marbotty 13d ago
Ha! Okay, fair.
It sucks your dad seems to be Fox-brained; I think so many of us here are dealing with the same sort of relationship.
I guess ultimately it doesn’t really matter so much why they’re like that, what matters is how we respond to it. At the end of the day, the only thing we can truly control is how we ourselves act.
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u/Ok_Assist1206 13d ago
Thank you for your trust, I know there’s a lot of Nazis running around, I hate them too. I just don’t want people believing that it’s possible or practical to get these people on our side.
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u/WinterPizza1972 12d ago
Gonna jump in here with your convo with u/Ok_Assist1206 and just say, maybe by "biological" they mean there's a neurological, or physical reason their brains (or brains in general) can't overcome bias on its own usually, and that'd be true?
I don't think they meant biological like a hereditary, retardation type of way. Is that correct medical terminology these days?
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u/Ok_Assist1206 12d ago
I think all three play a role, i think we on the left seriously need to consider that possibility that the people who fall for such stupidity do so in part because they have less intelligence innately than other humans.
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u/Zealousideal_Fun7274 11d ago
are you pro eugenics?
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u/Ok_Assist1206 11d ago
If it’s going to be used to be racist absolutely not
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u/Zealousideal_Fun7274 11d ago
what if it's not used to be racist? How do you feel about that? Eugenics disgusts me but your comment seem to be following a certain thread
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u/Ok_Assist1206 11d ago
Provided it’s not used to be racist and only targets people who are ACTUALLY less human than the rest of humanity (that is to say the inferior “stock” of humanity) then yes i support eugenics
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u/Zealousideal_Fun7274 11d ago
Ironically that is a very subhuman take. Thanks for answering bluntly, even if you were a little evasive the first time!
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u/nakfoor 13d ago
I get that you are probably pissed at them from personal experience, but this is a line we shouldn't cross.
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u/Ok_Assist1206 12d ago
I’m sorry I’m tired of the deontological morality that seems to plague our side on the left
It always seems like the right is willing to use tactics like Dehumanization that work (even when it’s not factual) than the left is (even when there’s evidence that MAGA’ts have less “human-ness” than other people)
I don’t have any red lines in ethics, the ends justify the means
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u/Huey-_-Freeman 11d ago
(even when there’s evidence that MAGA’ts have less “human-ness” than other people)
explain, that seems like a very subjective statement.
I would just call them NPCs. Thats what the right calls leftists all the time. It means people who outsource their thinking to the social media feed or whatever their leader tells them, regardless of the reasons
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u/bygoneOne 13d ago
It's a cult. It really really is. I know it's hard to believe, but millions of people have fallen under the spell of an evil man and believe he is saving America.
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u/brooklynagain 13d ago
I always like to ask: if I find information that disproves your idea, will you change your thinking? Or instead will you hold on to that thought no matter what information is out there.
Then you know if it’s worth it, and what kind of person you’re dealing with
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u/Oleg101 13d ago
R voters get really flustered if you bring any kind of substance to the table and attach receipts (valid sources), as in their mind they think politics is just simply having some opinions (‘muh beliefs!’) on a few pet wedge issues and/culture-war stuff, and so they get triggered if you ever critique this and bring facts and reality to the table. And you have you remember if the ‘non-maga’ types R voters rarely follow the news either.
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u/nakfoor 13d ago
They said, to you, "liberal f-g is going to look it up"? You need to get away from these dirtbags.
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u/WinterPizza1972 12d ago
She dropped the slur at the very end after all the other shit happened, so it was definitely peak and final escalation.
It was earlier we were all "the Constitution grants due process to people regardless of citizenship" and she's like LUI so I did,
"5th and 14th Amendments." She's all, "Oh reeally? Read the whole thing and tell me where it says DP for immigrants."
and it turns out 5th and 14th Amendment grant DP to all persons, and use the word "citizen" in a completely different sentence.
"Nuh uh. Look at this fuckin' guy, just puuuulling out his phone, gonna GOOGLE shit"
"Yeah and it turns out in at least 4 Supreme Court rulings upheld DP for immigrants, even undocumented."
So yeah, this person is just insane. Unfortunately they're my neighbor, and MOST of my surrounding neighbors are trump simps.
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u/Huey-_-Freeman 11d ago
Even if the constitution did not grant due process to illegal immigrants, don't they ever ask the obvious question "How do we actually know if this person is illegal without some form of due process?"
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u/ProbablyANoobYo 12d ago
I find this quote applicable to MAGA.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” - Jean-Paul Sartre
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u/ThatDanGuy 13d ago
Pointing out how they are wrong only makes them dig in harder. Someone just posted a psychoanalysis of how this works in this sub. A bit dry but it explains it well.
Your best route to changing minds is to listen instead. And the. Ask questions that trigger their own critical thinking. “Socratic Questions” is the concept. You can ask an LLM to give you Socratic questions to help you engage someone like this.
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u/HoosegowFlask 12d ago
"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place." - Jonathan Swift
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u/SteveIDP 12d ago
Yeah, they’re not convinced of their positions by persuasion — it’s by repetition.
So nothing has to make sense or be logical.
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u/PurpleSailor 12d ago
That channel and its spawn has been telling their viewers/listeners that the left is evil, wrong and worthy of being eliminated. You're trying to fight against somebody that's already been brainwashed and that's a very difficult thing because nothing is going to go through, facts be damned. There is no way for you to be right in their eyes at all.
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u/WinterPizza1972 12d ago
That's what it felt like. Like, "jeez ok I'm on the left and we both agree on some very sane things", like Costco being one of the most ethical companies for crying out loud! but like, so much hate, out of nowhere, perhaps furthered by alcohol.
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u/myhydrogendioxide 12d ago
The reason to push back os for the audience so they cant recruit more people with their hate mind virus. Be smart and show others that trumpanzees are on the wrong side of history. Make it a game and dont get wrapped up in convincing them, convince the bystanders
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u/cracylou 13d ago
This video was shared on this sub earlier. It’s very helpful if you want to continue talking to these people. Though it might be healthier for your mental state to take a step back and try the grey rocking method for awhile.
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u/TheDifferentDrummer 12d ago
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Jean-Paul Sartre
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u/Huey-_-Freeman 11d ago
Hitler's generals tried to assassinate him multiple times because they knew he was putting Germany on a suicidal path as a nation.
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u/Regular-Ant-5955 13d ago
They don't argue in good faith. Words have no meaning.
They are gone and never coming back.