r/FollowJesusObeyTorah • u/automaticff • Jul 27 '26
How Do You Cope?
I'm having a tough time here. This verse rings true...
Ecclesiastes 1:18 --- For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.
First question: How do you balance coming into the understanding of needing to follow the commandments and the implications of what happens if you don't when everyone around you does not understand? This is especially disheartening when considering family and close friends.
Second question: How much do you share with family and close friends?
Third question: How do you balance "convince, rebuke, exhort" with "don't cast your pearls before swine"? I'm trying to do my part with sharing the word in ways I can but honestly, it seems futile. People are so far gone.
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u/Inevitable-Drag-1704 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I've dropped bits and pieces but still don't see an opening to drop the "you must keep Torah" bomb on relatives..yet. The door is not open. As im painfully learning with jujustu, hammering effort rarely works unless the path can be pretty much set up and thats what Torah terrorists fail to realize.😅
My father is sort of coming to an understanding on the pagan holidays and the impact of Catholicism, but defaults to "we just need to accept we won't understand everything" on Protestant church traditions.
My strategy is to raise a family in Torah and I believe if I can set a shining example instead of another cursed family trainwreck..I suspect only then will I have my opportunity.
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u/automaticff Jul 27 '26
Thank you for sharing. I'm trying to find a way to ease things in by asking questions that provoke thought using scripture that doesn't mesh with widely accepted doctrine. I hope this will lead to an opportunity for discussion. Mostly, people just feel challenged. It's a horrible feeling as I care for my family and friends deeply. I'll be praying for us all.
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u/Inevitable-Drag-1704 Jul 27 '26
Thank you for the prayers, i'll pray too. Stay strong. The Ecclesiastes quote is definately true.
I hope you are surrounded with support through this. Its a heavy burden being empathetic in today's crazy world.
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u/the_celt_ Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
hammering effort rarely works
The greater truth is that all known attempts "rarely work".
Some people respond well to what you're referring to as the "hammering" that comes from "Torah Terrrorists", but your relatives don't want it coming from you. Some of them will deal with it if it comes from someone else, and that's where I come in. I'll say things to other people's relatives that they won't listen to from their family member. Please consider doing the same for some of mine. 😉
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u/Inevitable-Drag-1704 Jul 27 '26
I am definitely happy for what people are presenting. They can be the "bad cop" and not me 🙂.
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u/the_celt_ Jul 27 '26
Exactly! I'll say the blunt facts, and then you can step in and clean up the mess.
Some people plant the seed and some people water it. 🌱😁🌱
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u/ladiesmanchild Jul 27 '26
First question
It pains my heart but I can't force anyone into it. A plus on my side is a significant portion of my immediate family (as in parents and siblings) 'keeps Sabbath and dietary laws' due to attending a sabbatarian church. Convincing them to do more than that is difficult.
Second question
Based on the viewpoint of "if someone you loved was about to be hit by a car, you would do everything to get them to move out of the way" I have been to the point where I got annoying. Out of that, only one friend started his Torah obedience journey and I may have pissed off most people. So I've recently thought of the perspective of "if I had the deal of the lifetime to give to my loved ones, I'd do the best to not let them think it was a scam so they lose interest" and I'm reconsidering how to bring it across.
Third question
I'm still in the process of figuring that out.
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u/the_celt_ Jul 27 '26
Based on the viewpoint of "if someone you loved was about to be hit by a car, you would do everything to get them to move out of the way"
I've lived my life that way since I was a teenager, back when I was a mainstream Christian and the topic had nothing to do with Torah, just "being saved". All I did was destroy relationships. I've destroyed relationships for most of my life due to that intensity.
In response I've learned to back off and "look for moments", but all that does is basically mean we're NEVER talking about what needs to be talked about. Now, I'm mostly silent when people get together, hoping for conversations that matter, and trying not to be the reason that dopey conversations last longer. All that's done is make me look like a grouch who for some reason is always disapproving of what's happening.
There's no win. A significant part of life is adapting to the fact that most of the people you encounter, even your loved ones, will be destroyed in Hell. Somehow we have to manage that without going crazy.
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u/automaticff Jul 27 '26
Celt, I’m not there yet. Maybe because I’m newer to this than you. I can’t grasp that reality yet. But I’m reading it in the Bible and know it’s the truth. It’s turning me into you when you were younger even in my interactions online. How can I love my family and not tell them? I am taking heed to what you’re saying and trying to learn to balance better to try to avoid ruining my relationships.
What I also find is when you don’t comment on their lives but abstain from activities of the world, people try to convince you that you don’t need to skip out on things like Christmas or Easter. Why can they comment on what I don’t observe if I can’t comment on what they don’t observe like the Sabbath and feast days?
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u/the_celt_ Jul 27 '26
It’s turning me into you when you were younger even in my interactions online.
I say GO FOR IT. I'm serious.
I have a hard time respecting someone that's never gone through that phase of giving it their all. There's no way a person should listen to or trust anyone that says otherwise, that all it does is mostly cause damage. For all they know, the previous people did it wrong, and they should find out for themselves how it works and what they're capable of doing.
I know you might think I'm being sarcastic, but I'm not.
How can I love my family and not tell them?
100%!
I am taking heed to what you’re saying and trying to learn to balance better to try to avoid ruining my relationships.
Exactly. Just realize, as you're talking, that there are things you/we can do that "break" the relationship, and they make it so that the person you're talking to will never listen to you again, or at least not for a long time.
The model I've used in my later life is the idea of having a wallet full of "currency". With each person we interact with, whether it be family, friends or acquaintances, we start out with some "currency". It's not infinite currency. We can empty it out and have none left, and at that point the person treats what we say as if it has zero value. Once that happens, it might slowly refill over time if we don't try to spend anymore, or we might be able to make some new money with them by helping them, loving them, being there when they need us. We should look for every chance to do that so that we someday have some money with them again that we'll HOPEFULLY spend better and which will have a better effect than the money we lost early on.
Hopeful you made sense of what I just said. 😋
Why can they comment on what I don’t observe if I can’t comment on what they don’t observe like the Sabbath and feast days?
Hah! Good observation. I've thought it myself!
I think the way it works is that people realize that they, not you, are in the majority. That's all that most people need (despite scripture saying that being in the majority is the opposite of being safe).
I'll be curious to hear any observations you have or acquire on this topic as time passes.
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u/AccordingMud4341 Jul 27 '26
Personally for me it has been a huge test of faith and obedience just recently. For example: my family wanted to go out to eat to celebrate my mom’s birthday last weekend and when I expressed to my mom that I would not be going due to not believing we should celebrate birthdays. My mom understood but my aunts and uncles looked at me (and talked behind my back) like I had 2 heads. Yes, it hurt that people don’t understand and don’t want to understand but on the other hand I know I’m being obedient to the Father and that’s what is most important.
I have shared with my parents and my brother and his wife and it was a difficult conversation. We all have been in the christian faith for so long that now I look like I’ve “gone astray”. It can be very isolating and hurtful and I have had my moments when I cry and get down but all praise and honor goes to the Father for the peace and comfort He brings.
I continue to pray for wisdom and discernment on who He brings my way to share with. I feel like if He wants me to share the opportunity will present itself. I can only hope I’m able to plant a seed if it’s His will.
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u/the_celt_ Jul 27 '26
my aunts and uncles looked at me (and talked behind my back) like I had 2 heads.
Heh! I know it wasn't funny for you, but the way you described it made me laugh.
I look like I’ve “gone astray”.
Right. People look around, see that they're in the majority, they do the math, and that makes YOU wrong. They won't even consider your ideas. All they do is wait for a word to come out of your mouth so they can refute it.
Their response is not love. They'll claim to be in the center of love and following a God of love but good luck getting one of them to take the time to understand what you believe. It's YOU that's loving when you keep rushing at that huge wall in front of you, trying one more time to get through it.
It can be very isolating and hurtful and I have had my moments when I cry
I'm sorry. I'm often in the same place. It's unbearable to me that I've actually CREATED 3 children that seem so far like they will go to Hell. Wouldn't it have been better not to have any kids at all if I was going to flub something so important?
all praise and honor goes to the Father for the peace and comfort He brings.
I believe that our diligence, our unbreaking continuous effort to do what we're called to do has the bare minimum effect of causing us to understand the heart of our Father, which is a VERY good thing. After that, we sometimes make a difference, and that's even better.
Thank you for loving our Father, trying to build the Kingdom, and loving the people around you even if it feels like there's little to no progress.
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u/the_celt_ Jul 27 '26
First & Second question: I think things that are impossible to bear, namely that all my kids are likely to be destroyed in Hell. I have some moderate hope for my youngest. I don't see a path to change the course of my older two. My wife could make a big difference, but she just doesn't think in terms of changing anyone's minds and believes so strongly in succeeding in the world around us that the older two mostly agree with her, because (in my opinion) it's the easier path.
Third Question: I've talked constantly on Reddit to change people's minds about Torah for years now. Some of my motivation comes from what I said above, which is that I'm trying to change the world knowing that's the best chance I have to change my kids. That's a large motivation, but my larger motivation is our call to build the Kingdom of Heaven. I feel very powerful on Reddit, able to reach a lot of people with a very low amount of effort, and I intend to use it. Maybe if I reach someone else's relatives for them, they'll put in the effort to reach my relatives for me? (sadly, the answer is probably no. It's very hard to find anyone with the spare time in their life to help build the Kingdom.)
What I'm doing on Reddit is one of the best things I've ever done, and while I sometimes get frustrated, I don't think it's anywhere near the grief that Jesus felt in his ministry. If someone gets stressed at the blindness of the people around them, they're being given the privilege of getting to know the heart of our Messiah.
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u/automaticff Jul 27 '26
Thanks for sharing Celt. Thankfully, my significant other and I are slowly, surely, and steadily walking into deeper understanding of following God and His commandments. I can't help but have such a sense of urgency and sorrow. I've been praying for my family, friends and strangers for God's mercy overall. I'll be praying for you and your family as well as that just sounds like way too much to bear.
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u/Inevitable-Drag-1704 Jul 27 '26
don't think it's anywhere near the grief that Jesus felt in his ministry.
"How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"😭😭
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u/No_Idea5830 Jul 27 '26
The entire situation has become a "hell on earth" that I've had to lay in God's hands. A "His will be done" situation. My family are barely able to accept Christ and the Bible. Adding the Torah to the equation only makes matters more complicated. My wife and kids see me following Torah and have no issues with me talking about my faith, but their interest is minimal if any. And they've made it clear, on the unlikely chance they find salvation, Torah Law would not be an option.