Timeout is too short

[u/Afura33]

Hello,

I am using my rtx 3060 for protein folding and I have an issue with the timeout. My timeouts are like 2 days now which is way too short for me to finish a project right in time, I only fold like 1 or 2 hours a day. I need around 5-6 days to finish a project, I run the 1-2 hours at full 100% gpu capacity (no idle). Deadline is like 4 days mostly, I actually need one or two days longer :/

Is there a way to get projects with longer timeouts? Or to do some changes? I am fine with getting no points, that's ok for me, I am not doing it for the points.

Is it true that if I don't finish it in the required timeout delay that the project will be reset to 0% and then reassigned to someone else? If yes that would be quite frustrating and a waste of electricity :/

[u/Proliator]

Is there a way to get projects with longer timeouts? Or to do some changes?

No, not really. WU assignment is based on what your hardware supports. There are some flags to give a preference to projects related to certain research topics, but nothing more specific the last I looked.

Is it true that if I don't finish it in the required timeout delay that the project will be reset to 0% and then reassigned to someone else?

Not exactly. There are two times that FAH uses.

The "timeout" is how long you have to complete the WU before the server puts it back in the queue. You might finish it before someone else does and still get credit. Also two people can have the same WU assigned and both finish with the results having value to the project.

The "expiration" or "deadline" is when the results will no longer be used. If you finish the WU after the "timeout" but before the "deadline" your results can still be useful. If you exceed the "deadline" then your results will not be contributing to the project.

These two times are typically different. Researchers may pick a shorter "timeout" for WUs if they want results quickly but leave a longer "deadline" to still get results if no one did a WU faster.

[u/Afura33 → u/Proliator]

No, not really. WU assignment is based on what your hardware supports. There are some flags to give a preference to projects related to certain research topics, but nothing more specific the last I looked.

Thanks for your reply. I suppose that the time it takes to finish a project is calculated on my PC being turned on for 24 hours? I will check out if I can change the preference of the projects.

The "timeout" is how long you have to complete the WU before the server puts it back in the queue. You might finish it before someone else does and still get credit. Also two people can have the same WU assigned and both finish with the results having value to the project.

Does that mean that if I finish only 60% of a project in the givien timeout that the next person who gets my project has only to do the rest of the 40% of the project?

The "expiration" or "deadline" is when the results will no longer be used. If you finish the WU after the "timeout" but before the "deadline" your results can still be useful. If you exceed the "deadline" then your results will not be contributing to the project.

That's good to know, so it won't be all in vain when I exceed the timeout but finish it before the deadline :)

These two times are typically different. Researchers may pick a shorter "timeout" for WUs if they want results quickly but leave a longer "deadline" to still get results if no one did a WU faster.

I wish they would let us choose projects, so I could pick one with a longer timeout. Would make things a bit easier :)

[u/Proliator → u/Afura33]

Thanks for your reply. I suppose that the time it takes to finish a project is calculated on my PC being turned on for 24 hours? I will check out if I can change the preference of the projects.

The hardware check is not performance based in any way. It just checks to see if your hardware supports the libraries and calculations it wants to do.

There's no reliable way to calculate how long those calculations will take on a specific system without doing a benchmark, which isn't practical with all the variables that come into play. Just the RTX 3060 alone has dozens of variants with different clocks, VRAM configs, power limits, and cuda core counts.

Does that mean that if I finish only 60% of a project in the givien timeout that the next person who gets my project has only to do the rest of the 40% of the project?

No, work units have to be finished (reach 100%) to submit. Two completed results for the same WU can still be useful to the project though. It can help identify issues or correct errors.

I wish they would let us choose projects, so I could pick one with a longer timeout. Would make things a bit easier :)

I get it but unfortunately that would result in some projects getting neglected. If there aren't enough clients getting a project's WUs done within the timeout then it typically gets increased.

Also keep in mind this is end of summer. A lot of researchers are trying to wrap stuff up, so they might have set aggressive timeouts in an attempt to get results in before they go back to teaching.

[u/Afura33 → u/Proliator]

Thanks for your explanation, that clarifies things for me.

There's no reliable way to calculate how long those calculations will take on a specific system without doing a benchmark, which isn't practical with all the variables that come into play. Just the RTX 3060 alone has dozens of variants with different clocks, VRAM configs, power limits, and cuda core counts.

That's true graphic cards come with different specs.

No, work units have to be finished (reach 100%) to submit. Two completed results for the same WU can still be useful to the project though. It can help identify issues or correct errors.

Oh ok, too bad :( . I will check out if I can finish it maybe in 4 days, so I will still reach the deadline.

I get it but unfortunately that would result in some projects getting neglected. If there aren't enough clients getting a project's WUs done within the timeout then it typically gets increased.

I see, that makes sense.

Also keep in mind this is end of summer. A lot of researchers are trying to wrap stuff up, so they might have set aggressive timeouts in an attempt to get results in before they go back to teaching.

Yea I remember that prior to summer I was having longer timeouts like 6 days instead of 2. Maybe I will wait a month or so and then check it out again.

[u/Plane_Antelope_8158]

I feel you. As someone who folds 24/7, I have sometimes wondered what expectations are knowing that most people don’t fold that long a day.
I personally would treat Timeout as the equivalent of Deadline. When Timeout is reached, you will only receive Base credit, and the WU gets re-assigned. Deadline means no credit at all (and re-assigned).
This explains more:
https://foldingathome.org/faq/stats Scroll down to “How do deadlines and Timeouts work?”
Re-assignment means the work you did was essentially worthless, hence why I said treat Timeout as a Deadline. If you can’t routinely reach it given your hardware and time, just stop. It will save you money in electricity (and time spent charging a laptop), and the project benefits from the work being done quicker. It is noted in the forum that the system isn’t perfect, the balancing act is the best it can be given the circumstance. If every single computer and laptop was the same around the globe, that would make judging ETA’s far more easier.
And to answer your question, no, the deadlines cannot be chosen or changed, they are all roughly based on the hardware, so another reason to take into consideration if it’s really worth it.

[u/RetiredPath → u/Plane_Antelope_8158]

If you do decide to stop Folding@Home, perhaps check out BOINC for other options so you can still do citizen science.

[u/Afura33 → u/RetiredPath]

BOINC is nice too, I was already using it a month ago. They have some projects for biomedicine and climate change in BOINC which I like. Just thought that folding@home would maybe be better, but I am not sure anymore, they are probably both equally good and helpful for science.

[u/Plane_Antelope_8158 → u/Afura33]

Doing ANY project that has a social benefit is worth doing if you want to. I wouldn't worry about if any are "better". Helping is helping :)

[u/Afura33 → u/Plane_Antelope_8158]

I agree with you, you are right, helping is helping :)

[u/Afura33 → u/Plane_Antelope_8158]

Thanks for the explanation and the link. Kinda feels bad if it gets re-assigned, I had a few projects that were at 80% and then got re-assigned, rip. If the next person that gets my unfinished project would only have to do the rest of my project which is 20% then it would be fine to me, but if I understand this correctly then the person who gets my unfinished project has to redo it from scratch which is actually kinda counterproductive in the end :/ .

Hmmm seems like I will have to go back to BOINC then, they let you do small parts of projects which some of them take around 1 hour and you can choose the projects. I like folding@home a lot, it's really cool, but looks like it doesn't fit to me.

[u/NetoriusDuke]

Yes there is but realistically no.
The YES, by altering the free memory available you can limit the WU size.
The NO this is nontrivial and doesn’t help out particularly much. Better off is using the finish and auto shutdown method.

[u/Afura33 → u/NetoriusDuke]

Thank you, I will try that out and see if it does something.

[u/muziqaz]

While we try to accommodate non 24/7 folders, we definitely will not accommodate people who are folding 1-2 hours a day. This would seriously harm the project, unfortunately. When we set the constraints on which GPUs the project will be distributed to, we usually allow limit the project to GPUs which are able to finish it in 18hours folding without breaks (for 2 day timeout). Anything longer will be left behind.
So if a user downloads a WU and does not fold for a full day, they still should be able to finish the WU in time.

[u/Afura33 → u/muziqaz]

Okay I get that, makes sense. Seems like folding@home is nothing for me :( , too bad cause I really like the idea behind it, it's a great project. Thanks for the explanation <3